How do you know if you have too many Festools?

[dwillis]

During one of my projects today I discovered that the nonskid strip (part number 485724) on one of my guide rails was torn and a piece missing.  So off to the nearest Festool dealer I went.  While I was looking over the Festool display a helpful sales associates came over and asked me if I needed any help.  I described what I needed and he said that he'd look it up in the catalog, so he picks up one of the fliers for new tools in 2011 and starts looking through the flier.  I pointed out that there was a catalog on the MFT table he was standing next to, so he proceeds to look in there, in the saw section.  At this point I'm starting to run low on patience so I suggested that he look under the guide rail section, which he did, then I pointed out that there was a page with accessories, and then he finally found the part number.  So I said great, could he get one for me from the back room?  Uh, no, because all the stock on hand was on display and they didn't have any, but he would be glad to order it for me.  I said thanks but no thanks, I would go to another dealer (one that is a bit further down the road but significantly more knowledgeable).  Naturally they had what I needed and the rail is as good as new.

So what does this have to do with my subject title?  Because as my friends at the other dealer reminded me today that I have drunk the green coolaid and know more than at least one salesman.  But seriously too many Festools, is that possible?

 

[Henning]

Actually, unless you have three or more of the same model and every model, I'd say it's not too many. I do, however, have some vested interest due to my tool problem so I expect some mmv... :-D

No such thing as to many!

 

[MadViking]

So what does this have to do with my subject title?  Because as my friends at the other dealer reminded me today that I have drunk the green coolaid and know more than at least one salesman.  But seriously too many Festools, is that possible?

In the small city where I live I definately know more than the Festool salesman. But too many Festools? That's like saying you have too much money  ;D

 

[-The Dutch Guy-]

I thought that only happend in Holland.... but no  [poke]. So there are actually people who doesn't know a lot about our great love, the festools.

And there is (in my point of view) no such thing as to many Festools! [big grin] [big grin]

Cheerz René

 

[erock]

Hey Dwillis,
  I went through the same kind of thing the other day at a local Festool dealer.
I wanted to buy some Domino Sipo's.  I had an exterior project.  So when I was looking around the Festool display, a salesman came up to me and said
"looks like you have good taste in tools."  We talked a little about Festool, I told him what I owned and asked where the exterior domino's where.
His reply was  "Festool doesn't have an exterior domino, they only make the one style made out of a wood chips."
I informed him that Festool uses  BEECH for the tenon and showed him the only box of 8mm they had on display.  And told him that Festool does in fact make a exterior domino called a Sipo.  He didn't believe me, went to the counter and asked another salesman if Festool made a exterior domino and that guy said  "I never heard of that, I don't think they do." 
I was blown away!  I said thanks,  I'm gonna go to Woodcraft. 
Then they wanted to look in the catalog and found the Sipo and told me that they could order them and could have them in a couple days.
Well that does me no good when I need them that day!
I just can't stand it when guys think and act like they know more about tools just because they work in a tool store.  And since he didn't know about the item I was looking for, I was wrong and crazy for asking where it was.
I think that was the last time dealing with this little mom and pop store.

Eric

 

[rnt80]

Eric, what you're describing is really annoying.  I worked at the HD years ago and never had a problem telling people "I don't know, but I can try and find out...".  With that said I think the expectations we have for local dealers are too high.  While we all love to use these tools, so much so that we frequent a forum designated to them, I don't think we can expect some guy/gal at Woodcraft, Rockler, or wherever to have any more than a basic knowledge of the line.  This is one line of tools that they carry.  I know it would behoove them to be more knowledgeable but I just don't think that that is very high on the priority list for a lot of these people.  I think we've been collectively spoiled by Uncle Bob and the other dealers that are on this forum that have an encyclopedic knowledge of these tools and can pretty much answer any question about the line that's thrown at them.

 

[MadViking]

I wouldn't be too hard on the small dealers, especially the mom and pop type stores. Festool is one of the smaller brands (at least compared to the likes of DeWalt, Makita and Bosch), and they have a wide range of specialized tools. In a small store which carries Festool, chances are that they have never sold a single unit (or very few) of tools such as the RAS, Planex and similar, and know very little about them as they have likely never even seen them live (other than a few minutes with a Festool rep). Same goes for low-volume accessories like the Sipo dominos. Most Festool dealers I've been to don't have the Sipo in stock, since they probably never sell them. It's like going to the auto mechanic and expecting him to know stuff about (and have spare parts for) a specific model of Ferrari.

It's another matter if you go to a major dealer with a Festool Testcenter, then you can expect an entirely different level of knowledge even on the obscure stuff.

Also, in the days of the Internet it's easy for people like us to realy dig into a specific subject or tool before we buy it. The guy at the tool store needs to know stuff about hundreds of tools, you can't expect them to know everything. Unless I go to a Festool Testcenter, I go there mainly to poke at the tools myself, to get an idea of how they handle etc. Not to have some guy answer my questions. Thats you the FOG is for 

 

[fidelfs]

I think that goes to every brick and mortar in Houston.  The other day I was looking for LR32 guide rail and the LR32 set.

I didn't need it that day (This is just a hobby), but I WANTED that weekend to start playing with it and learn all the details (You know how it goes).  I called several dealers, Woodcraft, Rockler at least they asked me for the part number and looked at the computer. They didn't have it in stock so I kept calling other dealers.
I called one of the dealers listed on the Festool usa website.  It went like this:

[Dealer]  Good Morning....Thanks for calling xxx and yyyy.....
[Me]  Good Morning, I am looking for LR32 guide rail and LR32 set from Festool.
[Dealer] What is Festool?
[Me] It is a tool brand and you are a registered dealer.
[Dealer]  No, we don't sell any fostel, fistel or whatever.
[Me]  You know the green brand, very expensive made in Germany, you are listed as a Dealer.
[Dealer] Let me check, Hey.... John.  Have you heard about fostel, fistel or whatever?
[John] Good Morning, How can I help you?
[Me]  Good Morning, I am looking for LR32 guide rail and LR32 set from Festool.
[John] Ohh! Ok, Festool, Yes we have it.
[Me]  Ok, can I go and buy it.
[John]  Wait, we have the brand, but I don't know what you want.
[Me]  I want LR32 guide rail and LR32 set from Festool.  Do you want the part number?
[John] What is that for?  What do you want to do?
[Me] This is a drilling system from festool ........ [John] interrupt me and I had to stop talking.
[John]  Yes, but what do you want to drill, concrete, metal, good?  We have makita drills, Dewalt drills for that.  You don't need to buy a Festool drill.
[Me] No, I don't want a drill nor drill on concrete, this is for kitchen cabinets, Are you a Festool dealer? What I am looking is..... [John] interrupt again.
[John] Could you stop talking and let me explain, if you don't let me talk you won't learn.
[Me] Ok. Go ahead Sir.
[John] We know what festool is, if you need anything from them, you need to give me the part number you are looking for.  I will order it and you will get it in a few days.  We don't have any festool stock in the store.  This brand does not sell well, so there is no stock. If you want another brand then yes, we have Makita, Dewalt, etc.
[Me]  No, Thanks.  Have a nice day.

I drove to Austin to TOOL HOME and Tom helped me out.  I got the rail and the LR32 set.  He is a great guy and very knowledgeable. He will get more business from me from now on.

It is very sad in Houston, but I guess this the norm and several other cities as well.

And answering the original question, I think is a yes and no answer.  If you have too many from the same tool maybe you have too many, but in the other hand if they see use often then no.
I think we have too many brick and mortar dealers that  they just jump into the wagon, trying to get some business and not investing in learning and teaching their associates.

 

[worknfool]

My local Woodcraft had employed a great salesman who's been in commercial and industrial tool sales for probably 30 years. Unfortunately he didn't stay long once someone else realized his abilities and offered him a lot more money. It was great while it lasted. He knew everything, including stuff about tools that were only available in Europe. The reason for his effectiveness with Festool was that he had been buying and using the tools himself since they first became available here in the States, and he's been selling them ever since. Like was said, not everybody sells enough to have the time to commit to learning what is initially a pretty unusual way of working. The other Woodcraft guys try, and a couple are pretty good, but this guy Brian was just great. My area Festool Rep ain't too shabby either (lucky bastard seems to be about the only thing going through my mind the whole time I'm trying to talk to him for some reason).

 

[tiralie]

...I think the expectations we have for local dealers are too high.  While we all love to use these tools, so much so that we frequent a forum designated to them, I don't think we can expect some guy/gal at Woodcraft, Rockler, or wherever to have any more than a basic knowledge of the line. 

Completely agree. Unfortunately modern marketing has created this unrealistic expectation. Yes, retailers should be able to get an order correctly, but knowing how each Festool works is a bit too much to expect.

One of my local dealers, Atlas Machinery provides an amazing experience when I visit, they give me great ideas for spending and saving my money (like I need more ways to spend my money) offers some unique bundling, but they don't know everything.  As their product offering grows it gets more difficult for them to know what tool is appropriate for what situation. Atlas does listen to their customers, learn from them and are able to give great feedback when asked for advice. If they don't know they will say so.

I think the key is the relationship you have with your dealer, just as it was when the local hardware store was the only game in town. A relationship takes time to build, and is definitely an effort but it is well worth it.
Tim

 

[Alan m]

ok this isnt a festool story but any way same experiance.

my local town has 2 main brick and morter stores and a few smaller ones. one is my local festool dealer and most other tools too, the other i hate(sent out a bill for 20 pound after my father paid off 10,000 a few days before when he was building our house 20 years ago. that was when 10000 bought you something) but they have a better flooring section.

i was in the flooring one a few weeks ago . i had just dropped a few hundred on flooring and another 100 on some ex display stoage bins (the ones with the tip out clear bins) all was good (as good as it could have been. i was wearing some good clothes not my dirty old work gear
i remembered i could do with a pair of door hindges that allow the door to open back fully clearing the mouldings around the door frame (parliment hindges but i couldnt think of the name). i explained what i wanted to the young guy that had sold me the floor.
he said he didnt know and refered me to the woman (inelivent fact) at the next till along the worktop.
see had been serving a carpenter (45-50 ish) that she know.
he was gathering what he bought as i expained what i wanted.
she very rudly said i havent heard of anything like that and asked the previous customer.
he said he never heard of it either and said thaey dont exist why would you want some thing like that.
he proceeded to explain in detail that that he has never fitted anything like that .
she fobbed me off and said basically you are a ejit get out of my way, i dont care, (not her words).
i told her it was a standard thing and go look(politly mind)
she said i ring the person over ordering to see what he would say. he said he would ring back in a minute
i stood there for 15minutes as shee ignored the phone right in front of me.
i was like a savage and was ready to ate her in front of everybody for working in such a thick shop.
never got to talk to the order guy/gal.
the first guy that sold me the floor served another customer at his till (normally he is over in his area)
he asked the woman if i had been served and she fobed me off again to him saing it didnt exist.
he let a roar across the tills to another salesman . he came over .
i asked him the same questions(right in front of the woman)  and he goes ummm. thats a parliment hindge .
walks into the area behind the till and picks up a pair.
bingo
she didnt even agnolage that i was there let alone was right.

i wonder if i was wearing my work clothes what would have happened.

i asked tha same questions in my local dealer and he not only knew what i wanted , he knew the price and where it was on the shelf  at the other end of the shop. he is no even the good salesman in there

rant over .
sorry

 

[Tinker]

I had been dealing with my local lumber yard for 10 or so years. By that time, i knew all of the long term yard workers as well as most everybody in the office, upstairs and down.  I was doing some remodeling on my house and needed a piece of molding, or something.  I was used to going into the mason supply section and rough lumber.  It was a hot day and I could not find just what i was looking for.  I spotted one of the workers who I did not recognize and headed in his direction.  I was sure he had seen me, but he disappeared around a lumber pile.  I got to where he had disappeared as he was disappearing around another corner.  I decided I was just going to track him down, even tho i had spotted what I was after.  I kept moving in his direction and eventually, i caught up with him at other end of the yard.  I told him what i wanted (not really what i wanted) and made him go looking for it.  When he found the item i had described, i faked surprise and "suddenly remembered" what i was really after.  Of course that was also a mistook and we headed in another direction.  When the guy was appearing to run out of patience, I finally got it right and got him to give me a hand loading on my truck.

A week or so later, my daughter, then in her early 20's and a real good looker (no predjudice there either) was home for a visit.  I was till working on the house and needed some more sticks of lumber, or whatever.  My daughter offered to go after it for me and took my truck (she had to learn to drive trucks before i allowed her to get her driver's liscence).  I told her of my problems with the yard help and to expect problems.  Stupid me!  When she got back, much quicker than i had expected, she was laughing.  When i asked her what was so funny, she told me she wasn't even out of the truck before atleast four guys were scrambling around the truck offering to give her a hand. She said by the time the truck was loaded, just about every guy in the yard was there to offer help. 

Now guys, the moral to the story, and the answer to your problems is that you guys just ain't built right. [cool]
Tinker

 

[kev carpenter]

I think your asking the wrong wrong crowed if you want the truth. just tell her thats the reason why you dont have a new sofa or another holiday [big grin]

 

[Jesse Cloud]

........

A week or so later, my daughter, then in her early 20's and a real good looker (no predjudice there either) was home for a visit.  I was till working on the house and needed some more sticks of lumber, or whatever.  My daughter offered to go after it for me and took my truck (she had to learn to drive trucks before i allowed her to get her driver's liscence).  I told her of my problems with the yard help and to expect problems.  Stupid me!  When she got back, much quicker than i had expected, she was laughing.  When i asked her what was so funny, she told me she wasn't even out of the truck before atleast four guys were scrambling around the truck offering to give her a hand. She said by the time the truck was loaded, just about every guy in the yard was there to offer help. 

Now guys, the moral to the story, and the answer to your problems is that you guys just ain't built right. [cool]
Tinker

Siimilar story here.  My wife has always been interested in furniture and follows my projects with interest, so she knows a lot about wood.  When we lived in the Washington, DC area, my favorite yard was Colonial Hardwoods.  The yard was in an industrial district catty corner from a poorly disguised national security 'spook' works, which was a customer for my wife's IT products.  She kindly offered to pick up a few boards as needed when she was down that way.  So, she walks into the yard with a business outfit and high heels, and starts sorting thru boards.  The incredulous new sales folk would come by a ask if she were lost and needed directions.  Her reply would be something like "I need 30 board feet of four quarter quarter sawn white oak with at least 8 sections clear to 3 feet."  The new sales rep would be totally flustered, not helped by the old timers having a good laugh at this predicament.  And she had a great eye for lumber, always brought back top notch stuff.

 

[zzzzdoc]

I know I have too many, because any time I walk near the Festool display in my local Woodcraft, the owner runs over to wait on me.

The good news is they are quite knowledgeable and helpful in that Woodcraft.

 

[EvilNuff]

...It is very sad in Houston, but I guess this the norm and several other cities as well....

I've had similar lack of knowledge experiences in Dallas...maybe its all of TX outside of Austin?  heh

 

[Wim]

I don't think there is such thing as too many Festools. This is especially true for the USA because of the NAINA syndrome. And even in the rare case that somebody might think to have too many, there will be another project that needs a new tool.
It is all a marketing thing from Festool. They use systainers to be able to stack the most tools in the smallest space. So lack of room is not a valid argument.

 

[tbellemare]

...It is very sad in Houston, but I guess this the norm and several other cities as well....

I've had similar lack of knowledge experiences in Dallas...maybe its all of TX outside of Austin?  heh

I travel...

Tom

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I have never been a real store/dealer that actually had a clue.

It is too bad as I bet it really costs Festool some lost sales.

I have come to the realization that if I need something made by them, I better just order it on line.

Not every bingo sheet is a winner.

 

[Tinker]

I have been going to my favorite "toy store" for many moons.  Some moons back, i had decided i needed a better straightedge setup so I could make better use of my circular saw for ripping long lumber and for cutting up sheet goods.  I had discovered something on the internet that I thought would be useful and decided to take a quick (40 mins if i am in a hurry) look to see if it was available @ my "toy store."  As i walked in the entrance dor, i noticed a funny looking table with holes all over the top and an ugly, heavy looking circular saw mounted on the long beam with ridges on the top.  The molded beam was, in turn, mounted on the strange looking work table.  I stopped to take a look and was trying to figure out what i was looking at.  As I was sanding there scratching my head (not to relieve an itch) in wonderment, John, the owner came over to me.  I asked, "What is all of that?"  I think by the time i asked the question, i had actually forgotten the item i had traveled down there to see. 

John explained, with patience, it was a line he had just taken on that he felt had a ton of possibilities for both hobbiests, such as me, as well as for professionals.  He proceeded to demo the apparatus as well as explain how it all fit together with other toys in the line. He let me play with his toys for a little while.  I was hooked immediately.  I walked out of the store with an MFT 1080 and an order for ATF 75.  By the time the ATF 75 became available, I had done a little more studying and had decided that for my use, the 55 would be better.  John was only slightly put out by my change in plan as he gave me the ATF 55.  He told me there was nno problem, he would have little problem in selling the 75 I had ordered.  That was atleast 10 years ago.  My pile of Festoys has expanded and John's supply of Festoys has expanded to the point i dare not go there anymore.  Wellll......, i do go back now and then.  i have yet to ask a question about a Festoy but that i get an intelligent answer along with an opportunity to try it out.  Everybody who works in the store knows about the Festoy line.  If he/she does not have the answer to my question, a shout to someone at other end of the store brings out the person who does have the answer.  There is almost always someone who can give a good demo for any of the toys.  for any who happen to be in the Sw Connecticut area, i am sure, if interested in Festoys, they have had equal experiences at the Woodcraft (WoodWorkers Club) Store in Norwalk.  If not, and you want hands on...
Tinker