How fast to reposition the guide on the Festool circular saw guide system?

[Icestation2]

I need to cut 30mm thickness sheets of MDF into 17mm wide strips - each sheet being 1250mm wide. I?m considering buying the Festool TS55 system but I?m unsure how easy and fast it is to reposition the guide. I like the idea of using something like the Festool system because it is important that each strip is cut accurately and has perfect 90 degree sides. 

I?m really looking for a set-up where the guide is kept exactly square and you just slide the guide to the next mark. I have tried using a basic circular saw guide clamp but you have to mark the top surface twice on every cut so that the clamp is square. I notice that Festool also make a Multifunction Table but once again I need some idea as to how fast it is to reposition the guide because I need to be able to cut strips as fast and accurately as possible.

Also, can anyone tell me if it?s possible to use a 1.5mm thickness circular saw blade in either the Festool TS55 or TS75?

 

[Ashlee52]

How long do your strips need to be? If they are only a few feet the saw on an MFT could be set up for repetitive cuts.

If you need long strips (like 8 feet) then it is best to build a jig, such as Fshanno designed in this thread http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=6939.0

One secret for ripping thin strips with the rail saws is to have another piece of wood the same thickness of the material you are cutting under the rail for balance. If you are only taking 17mm off on the inside of the rail, then the rail needs to be well supported by another piece.

As long as your rail is considerably longer than the strip you are ripping there are also ways to jig the rail to allow your cut to the right of the rail (more typically the work piece in under the rail on the left side of the cut). The parallel guides are one (heavy) way to do this. Two wooden "L"s attached to the bottom of the rail are another way to get the same effect.

 

[Icestation2]

How long do your strips need to be? If they are only a few feet the saw on an MFT could be set up for repetitive cuts.

If you need long strips (like 8 feet) then it is best to build a jig, such as Fshanno designed in this thread http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=6939.0

One secret for ripping thin strips with the rail saws is to have another piece of wood the same thickness of the material you are cutting under the rail for balance. If you are only taking 17mm off on the inside of the rail, then the rail needs to be well supported by another piece.

As long as your rail is considerably longer than the strip you are ripping there are also ways to jig the rail to allow your cut to the right of the rail (more typically the work piece in under the rail on the left side of the cut). The parallel guides are one (heavy) way to do this. Two wooden "L"s attached to the bottom of the rail are another way to get the same effect.

The length of the strips would be the width of the MDF (1250mm).

 

[Ashlee52]

If you had a TS-55 it would be very easy to set the rail up on a base of extra MDF with a stop (or clamps) positioning the rail so that it overhung the base by 17mm... then slide the work piece under that overhang... cut... remove strip, and repeat. So the strip to be cut is under the rail and inside of the blade (thats the most accurate way and gives the cleanest cuts). Put everything on a surface you can cut into (most of us have some sort of sacraficial cutting platform... often a cheap hollow core door with styrofoam insulation glued to one side... a few 2x4's on the floor can do the same thing a bit less elegantly).

1250mm is a bit long to do on the MFT

 

[tbellemare]

That sounds like a job for the Parallel Guide Set. There are 2 aspects to the set.

The parts that are called the Parallel Guide measure from the "left" side of the workpiece.

The parts that are called the Extensions connect to the Parallel Guide mentioned immediately above and measure from the edge of the off-cut. This is what I think you are seeking.

This set allows you to take the saw and guide rail to the work piece also so you don't have to lug a heavy piece of sheet goods around.

Which blade are you thinking of?

Tom

 

[Icestation2]

That sounds like a job for the Parallel Guide Set. There are 2 aspects to the set.

The parts that are called the Parallel Guide measure from the "left" side of the workpiece.

The parts that are called the Extensions connect to the Parallel Guide mentioned immediately above and measure from the edge of the off-cut. This is what I think you are seeking.

This set allows you to take the saw and guide rail to the work piece also so you don't have to lug a heavy piece of sheet goods around.

Which blade are you thinking of?

Tom

These items seem perfect for what I need. Would you be able to tell me roughly how fast it would take to reposition the guide etc for the next cut. Are we talking like 10 seconds or quite abit longer? Part of the work I do involves cutting hundreds of strips and the time issue is farely important. At some point in the future I will upgrade to a large expensive piece of equipment like a vertical panel saw but my premises is way too small for anything like that at the  moment and I haven't got the money anyway.

Also, my business is located in the UK. Are these products available here or would it be a case of importing the items from the US?

I was considering using a 1.5mm wide blade on the TS55 but I will only do so if it doesn't cause any problems.

 

[tbellemare]

If the next cut is the same size, you don't reset these guides. You just pick up the guide rail and guides, which are all connected, and move it to where the stops are on the newly cut edge. If you have to cut a different width, it only takes a few seconds to reset the stops.

That assumes that you are using both parallel guides... You can use just one of them and it then becomes a very accurate square for your guide rail as well as having a stop so you are cutting to width repeatedly the same. In this case, if you want a different width, you only move one stop so it will take half the few seconds.

They should be available in the UK. They were sold in Europe first.

Tom

 

[fshanno]

Sounds like the perfect scenario to justify buying the Festool rig.  I recommend the TS55, the Parallel Guide Set and the CT22 vac.  See if your dealer will substitute the 1900mm guide for the standard 1400mm that comes with the TS55.  The 1400 isn't long enough for 1250mm so you'll need the longer guide.  A rule of thumb is to never buy a guide the same length as one you already have so if you can't substitute then get another longer guide, 1900 minimum.  The CT22 is quite a bit more than the smaller vacs but it comes with a HEPA filter which is something I would want when cutting MDF and I'd still wear a mask. 

You might achieve a 10 second cycle time.  It depends on how fast you can push the saw.  Things like that take a little longer than we think they do no matter how we do them.  I think it will take 5 to 6 seconds just to make the cut.  It would take 4 or 5 on the best sliding table saw in the world.  Another second to set the saw aside.  It will take another 3 to 4 seconds to carefully remove that flimsy 17mm MDF strip and set it aside.  Another 2 to 3 seconds to bump the sheet up against the Parallel guide stops.  2 seconds to get the saw back on the guide and to catch your breath for the next cut.  I think you're looking at 15 to 16 seconds per cycle. 

I think spending $1400 for a 16 second cycle time on such a task, with the best possible safety, superb dust collection and good cut quality, is a bargain.  A high dollar sliding table saw would yield marginally better results as far as cut quality and squareness go.  The cycle time might be faster on the slider assuming it's safe to let the strips hit the floor and each other.  But the slider would be thousands more. The TS55 and Parallel Guide have the virtue of their limitations.  Nothing ever has to hit the floor because you have to lift finished pieces off the cutting platform before you continue.

As far as productivity goes, I could have cut up 10 sheets with the Festool in the time it took to type this reply.  So quit wasting time and go get your new saw!

 

[tbellemare]

I couldn't have said it better...

I went to a customer's cabinet shop this afternoon to show them the Parallel Guides. They were thoroughly impressed. The least experienced with the Festool system used them to make 3 repeat cuts to determine if they were useful.

At the end of the cutting of two pieces, they were compared and no difference was found. A third piece was cut and then all three placed on end on the cutting table (standing up). No discernable difference was found.

These things work as advertized.

Oh, the whole process took, maybe a minute or two. That included a lot of trying to find fault and the people there talking about whether or not to make a third cut.

Tom

 

[Peterm]

Sounds like the perfect scenario to justify buying the Festool rig....

I don't disagree, but as a business decision, to me, it sounds like the perfect scenario for sub-contracting this out to someone with a panel-saw - like the timber-yard you're buying the MDF from. Seriously, what's your time worth? Is it really best spent running a saw down a track hundreds of times?? Festool makes great kit, and if you want it, buy it, but the best application of the Festool system isn't necessarily the best approach for the job in hand, IMO.

As an aside, I'm curious - what are you using these 17mm strips of 30mm MDF for?

Cheers, Pete

 

[Kevin Stricker]

With 138 strips per sheet, if you plan to do this kind of work frequently I would invest in a table or panel saw.  While I have no doubt that you could crank out 10-20 strips in a similar time frame with the Festool setup, there is no way you are going to be able to do it all day.  Unless you are quite tall, 1250mm is a far reach, so you will have to position your workpiece sideways with you on the cutoff side walking along your rail, which means you would need the saw in your left hand.  Also you would need to pick up the rail (and FS-PA)every time to move it on the workpiece unless you devised a bridge that allowed you to slide the MDF.  If all your cuts are the same, the FS-PA would be an expensive accessory, I think you could make your own bridge with a stop for 17mm cuts quite easily, but you still have the problem of workpiece positioning.

You also have to consider the dust production, I think you would fill the bag on a CT22 pretty quickly without a dust deputy or similar mini-cyclone, especially cutting 30mm MDF.

Personally I would use my TS55 to cut the panels into workable sizes, then make all of the individual cuts on my table saw.  While I think Fshanno is right about the time factor using Festool to cut 8 foot lengths, but there is no way any Festool setup could keep up with me on my table saw on 4 foot lengths.

 

[Steve Jones]

Maybe I'm Missing something, but you want to cut 17mm strips?

Wouldn't it simply be easier, faster, and cheaper to use this: http://www.festoolusa.com/products/plunge-cut-circular-saws/stops-and-accessories/parallel-guide-492243.html

no guide rail to move, no measuring, slide down the edge and go do it again.

Hold the saw in one hand, now pick up and hold the sheet of 30mm MDF in the other.....

And think about which one you'd prefer to move and carry all day.

 

[ForumMFG]

Tom,

I have a question about your comment you made about the parallel guides... 

You said:
"You can use just one of them and it then becomes a very accurate square for your guide rail as well as having a stop so you are cutting to width repeatedly the same."

Are you saying that if you use both piece's it's not as accurate as using just one?  You think using both pieces would make it very accurate as well.  I don't know, maybe I'm confused.

Maybe I don't know exactly how it works?

-Dave

 

[tbellemare]

To me it really depends on how long the cut is. I would use two for long cuts but just one for short cuts. Two is going to be dead on because you have two stops, one on each guide, with the guides "hugging" the edges of the work piece. If you take one off and push the remaining one against the edge of the work piece that is nearest you, it acts as a squaring device for the guide rail. There are two screws to take the slack out of the system, be sure to tighten them to ensure squareness.

I considered what Steve suggested also and it could work well. I didn't go there because if you are making many cuts and using your cut edge as your reference, any errors (cuts that aren't perfectly straight) are cumulative. If you are running the saw down the guide rail each time, you don't accumulate error.

I'll try to get some pix tomorrow.

Tom

 

[Icestation2]

With 138 strips per sheet, if you plan to do this kind of work frequently I would invest in a table or panel saw.  While I have no doubt that you could crank out 10-20 strips in a similar time frame with the Festool setup, there is no way you are going to be able to do it all day.  Unless you are quite tall, 1250mm is a far reach, so you will have to position your workpiece sideways with you on the cutoff side walking along your rail, which means you would need the saw in your left hand.  Also you would need to pick up the rail (and FS-PA)every time to move it on the workpiece unless you devised a bridge that allowed you to slide the MDF.  If all your cuts are the same, the FS-PA would be an expensive accessory, I think you could make your own bridge with a stop for 17mm cuts quite easily, but you still have the problem of workpiece positioning.

You also have to consider the dust production, I think you would fill the bag on a CT22 pretty quickly without a dust deputy or similar mini-cyclone, especially cutting 30mm MDF.

Personally I would use my TS55 to cut the panels into workable sizes, then make all of the individual cuts on my table saw.  While I think Fshanno is right about the time factor using Festool to cut 8 foot lengths, but there is no way any Festool setup could keep up with me on my table saw on 4 foot lengths.

You mention that I would have to pick up the rail and extension every time a new cut is made. I was thinking it was just a case of loosening a clamp or two and then sliding the guide and extension to the next position. I'm not sure I like the idea of lifting the whole set-up everytime.

I would definitely need to walk along the cut-side of the material as I certainly couldn't reach across. One possible concern I have is whether or not the guide extension (FS PA VL) will somewhat block the area along the main guide (FS 1900)where I would obviously need to walk along to cut the full width of the sheets. If I am cutting 17mm strips how far up the extension can the main sheet be positioned? -  obviously the more the guide extensions stick out, the more in the way they will be.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Ice, you really need to first understand what the parallel guide are and how they work. I'd recommend you my review of the guides, it should give you a good understanding of what they can do and how they work. Then you'll have fewer questions and a much better chance of someone here being able to help you with specific answers. You can find the review on my website or in PDF format at the Festool USA site.

 

[Icestation2]

Ice, you really need to first understand what the parallel guide are and how they work. I'd recommend you my review of the guides, it should give you a good understanding of what they can do and how they work. Then you'll have fewer questions and a much better chance of someone here being able to help you with specific answers. You can find the review on my website or in PDF format at the Festool USA site.

I re-read your article and I think I get how it all works. What I could do is to cut the extension guides just after the screws which will mean I could get much nearer to the main guide when making the cut - the extensions will still stick out a bit but not so far.  

One thing I don't quite understand. What is to stop the sheet you are machining from moving slightly especially during the cutting? Would you have to use the two stops on the FS-PA  sections? I notice that a few of the photo's on your product review show you cutting a sheet longer than the FS-PA  sections and therefore not using these two stops. Obviously if I have to adjust these two stops every time it would increase the time it takes to make a cut. I guess what I need to know is whether or not the material is likely to move if the two stops on the FS-PA sections aren't used?

 

[JeromeM]

I re-read your article and I think I get how it all works. What I could do is to cut the extension guides just after the screws which will mean I could get much nearer to the main guide when making the cut - the extensions will still stick out a bit but not so far.  

One thing I don't quite understand. What is to stop the sheet you are machining from moving slightly especially during the cutting?

The same thing that stops all rails from moving. The friction strips on the bottom.

Would you have to use the two stops on the FS-PA  sections? I notice that a few of the photo's on your product review show you cutting a sheet longer than the FS-PA  sections and therefore not using these two stops.

You will be cutting small width strips so you will use the stops

Obviously if I have to adjust these two stops every time it would increase the time it takes to make a cut.

Why would you have to adjust these two stops?? as your strips are the same width.

I guess what I need to know is whether or not the material is likely to move if the two stops on the FS-PA sections aren't used?

Why would you use the FS-PA without the stops?

The only reason would be if the pieces you want to cut are over the length of the FS-PA and yours are not.

 

[Icestation2]

I re-read your article and I think I get how it all works. What I could do is to cut the extension guides just after the screws which will mean I could get much nearer to the main guide when making the cut - the extensions will still stick out a bit but not so far.  

One thing I don't quite understand. What is to stop the sheet you are machining from moving slightly especially during the cutting?

The same thing that stops all rails from moving. The friction strips on the bottom.

Would you have to use the two stops on the FS-PA  sections? I notice that a few of the photo's on your product review show you cutting a sheet longer than the FS-PA  sections and therefore not using these two stops.

You will be cutting small width strips so you will use the stops

Obviously if I have to adjust these two stops every time it would increase the time it takes to make a cut.

Why would you have to adjust these two stops?? as your strips are the same width.

I guess what I need to know is whether or not the material is likely to move if the two stops on the FS-PA sections aren't used?

Why would you use the FS-PA without the stops?

The only reason would be if the pieces you want to cut are over the length of the FS-PA and yours are not.

I don't quite understand. You obviously have to use the two stops on the extensions (FS- PA-VL) but if you also have to use the other two stops on the FS-PA sections as well then they must need to be adjusted to make a new cut because the sheet is shorter. If you are using all four stops then surely at least two of them must be moved after each cut.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Ice, there isn't four stops, there are only two. The FS-PA and the FS-PA-VL share stops. When the VLs are being used you remove the stops from the FS-PA guide and put them on the VLs.

I can see you really can't grasp the complete concept over the internet, I strongly recommend you visit a Festool dealer in your area to see the guides in person and demo them there. The FOG is a great place to learn about Festool's products but it can't compete with a good Festool dealer to show you in person the tools. Good luck.