How good are festool extractors

[Nigel]

Hello everyone.This is my is my first post on this forum.The question I would like to ask is"How good are Festool extractors?"Usage would be daily for drywall/wood sanding,with Rotex.Also hook up to router table, site sawing with ts55 and general site cleaning.The reason I ask is that my current extractor(Karcher NT 35/1 Eco Te) has just burnt out after only 14 months use,( and 2 months out of guarantee!) .It seems to be a similar design to Festool with flat pleated filter but also an automatic impulsion system for filter cleaning.It has been excellent up to this point,high continuous suction, good capacity and sold for industrial use.I reckon the Festool equivalent would be the cleantex 36 ctl.According to Karcher 1 to 2 hours a day is to much for a small machine like this.I know there are bigger machines but are they more robust?I thought I was getting industrial portability.Would Festool be up to it?At least the guarantee is 3 years.Any thoughts would be much appreciated and thanks for a great forum.Regards to all,Nigel. 

 

[ForumMFG]

Nigel,

Festool Dust Extractors are amazing.  When I first bought mine and used it for my Kapex SCMS and RO125 I was absolutely amazed at how well it worked.  For sanding wood, you can't beat it.  If you do buy one make sure you turn the suction power down to half way or it's lowest setting.  If you don't, the suction power will want to hold the face of the sander to your work piece.  It collects so much dust while sanding, you can rub your hand across the board after you are down and not have any dust on your hand.  Thats not a joke either.  Because of this it makes your sand paper last longer because the dust isn't creating more friction which creates heat and then in turn shortens the life of your sand paper.  Awesome Machine.  On the router table or routing, you want to use a larger hose.  It excels in this operation but I've found that it doesn't suck up as much dust as if you were sanding.  Although it does do a pretty good job.  If you use it for routing, make sure you buy the 36mm hose, larger dia. hose has a larger capacity therefor can suck up more woodchips.  Using the dust extractor for the TS 55 or TS75 works like a charm as well.  Again,,  use the larger hose for this machine as well.  It really does a good job no matter what type of cut you are doing.  Festool sells a cover plate that you can attach the to the opening on the saw where you would insert your tool to change the blade.  Some people claim this helps with how much dust is collected but if you go to the festool website and go under FAQ, Festool says it doesn't improve it.  I've used the CT for all of the applications you have asked about and I wouldn't want any other extractor or system.  It's amazing.  If your going to be working on site with your tools and with this CT, you will find that you will be going home sooner or working more because clean up is minimal.  Don't get it in your head that you won't find any dust because you will.  But it will be minimal.  I recommend this product to anyone.  You can find more resources by searching this forum, try also talkfestool.com, and there are many reviews on the net elsewhere.  Also, if you are going to be working on site, you may want to purchase the midi or mini.  It's a smaller, easy to transport, and works just as well.  It's doesn't have the capacity or suction power as the others but it will still do a great job.  Hope this helps and welcome to the forum.

One more thing to add and others might be able to answer this better, as far as sanding drywall.  You might find more dust here, Just a little.  You have to make sure that the surface of the sander is flat against the wall.  If not, you will lose suction power which means not all the dust will be collected.  As we all know, walls are never completely flat.  You may have a belly, hump, or somwething like that in the wall.  So it may create a uneven surface for your sander.  I know Festool makes a Drywall sanding system overseas.  If thats where you are located, you may want to look into that if you have the money.  If not, stick with the Rotex as it can take on a wide range of tasks.

As far as how these compare to other extractors, I can't help you there.  I've only used the Festool.  After saying that, I know I would never think of looking at someone elses product if it needed replaced, if ever.  When you buy A festool CT, you are getting the warrenty, quality product, great customer service, and all those great things that come with the purchase which may lean you more towards festool if you found an extractor that had a larger capacity or has a little more CFM.

You can't go wrong with this purchase.  If you don't like it, return it within 30 days for a full refund, no questions asked.

-Dave

 

[Brice Burrell]

Nigel, I'm not familiar with Karcher vacuums but it seems odd to me that a tool made for industrial use can't withstand 1-2 hours a day associated with power tool usage. There is, however, a big difference between 1-2 hours of on and off use during the day verses 1-2 hours continuous use a day. My Festool vacs have had no problems with daily on and off use. Only on rare occasions have I used my vacs for an hour or more of continuous use so I can't offer any meaningful comment on long daily continuous use.

I would imagine most vacuums made for professional use might have a hard time with continuous use if there is drywall dust involved. If you intend to sand drywall regularly you may want to consider a vacuum made specifically for drywall sanding. From what I understand drywall dust is very fine and is capable of penetrating most filters. The dust can damage the vacs motor with prolonged used. (I believe the dust clings to the motor throwing it out of balance and that is what shortens its life, maybe someone else can offer a better explanation).

I would think your best bet is to call a knowledgeable Festool dealer or maybe Festool directly. Good luck and welcome to the FOG.   

 

[Holzhacker]

I can't attest to how good the Festool vacs are since I don't have one yet. Hoping to get a CT22 soon though. I rely on my Fein Turbo II, a great vac. Used to be a great buy when it was substantially cheaper than the CT's but the price is about the same now.
If your Vac died after 14 months, I wouldn't buy another one. However you mentioned drywall dust and that could be the culprit. I don't use my Fein for drywall a lot but when I do I give it a thorough cleaning afterwards. As Brice mentioned, drywall dust is very fine and can bet anywhere.
I know guys who have nice Vacs and clean them religiously after sanding drywall to maintain life. I know other guys who are tired of cleaning and just by cheap shopvacs for drywall sanding, use them till they die and buy another one. It seems you'll need to evaluate how you work to make a good decision. I don't see any problem with wood sanding or cutting for any of the Vacs.

 

[bonesbr549]

I have the ct33/e and simply love it.  I use it for sanding pickup and routers and my router table fence pickup ( I also have a seperate unit for underneath).  The main pickup is that fence I have the Incra LS120.  I plug my router table into the ct33/e and it gets it all and then some.  I love the auto on/off feature.  It's quiet and I stack my tools on top great combo.    I'll also reccomend the hose garage and the handle kit.  My next add will be the boom arm.  You won't regret it. 

 

[Bob Childress]

Nigel, if you do not live in the USA, take a look at the SRM-45-LE-EC speciality vac. I think that may the go for your application.

http://www.festool.co.uk/mediandoweb/index.cfm?sLanguage=English&ID_O_TREE_GROUP=1800&ID_O_PRODUCT=65576&BLATT=2&PARENT=1767&BEGIN=1&#anker

 

[AlexThePalex]

The Festool vacs will perform considerably better than Karcher.

I am not surprised your Karcher gives up just like that. It's not the first story where I hear this. Really, professional contractors and tradesmen generally frown upon Karcher. The Karchers are basically vacuums made for the cleaning industry, and not for dust control. Yes they slap a socket on some models but that doesn't all of a sudden make them suitable to use with a tool attached.

 

[justinmcf]

hi nigel and welcome to the fog.
all the advice given here is spot on. theres not much more i can add apart from...
if you are sanding drywall, try an orbital sander, which has the to and fro motion, whereas the random orbital will be just a little more aggressive with the circular motion.

with regards to the festool srm-45 vac, i am also a licensed asbestos removalist and i have been looking closely at this vac and its more expensive brother srh-45 for asbestos dust. the srm-45 is more suited for concrete dust and drywall dust, but the ctl 26-ctl 36 will also work with drywall dust and therefor i would recommend it as a great all rounder.

if i was cutting heble, stone and concrete all day, every day, i would buy the srm-45.
if i was removing asbestos all day, every day, i would buy the srh-45.
i mostly cut timber, mdf, sometimes concrete, stone, and sand drywall occasionally, so i bought the ct-22 and ct-33. these 2 vacs have now been superceded by the ctl 26 and ctl 36 and provide excellent value for money.
the best thing to do, is go in and talk to your local festool dealer and they will explain in detail the difference between the festool vacs.

btw, my biggest regret with regards to festool vacs, is that i wasted my hard earned cash on other inferior brands, when i should have went and bought the festool vacs in the first place!

regards, justin.

 

[ForumMFG]

Bones, Nice stained glass on the router table!  Did you do that yourself?  Got any close up pics?

 

[score0matic]

To my European Festoolers
Are any of you familiar with this vac?

http://www.levetec.com/images/ps2800EN.pdf

I know it is a Swedish company.  I have thinking about pulling the trigger on it for a while now.

60% of my collection is concrete dust

Pulse clean filter
Cyclone
Dust free change to plastic bags

Craig

 

[bonesbr549]

Bones, Nice stained glass on the router table!  Did you do that yourself?  Got any close up pics?

I work with wood and the wife does the glass.  She made that for me from a pattern from a guy over on FWW. The router table is Norm's plans and I added lockable casters.  I know its over the top but I like it.  Here's a better shot

 

[simon]

I use the TS 55 saw with the CT22. The dust extraction is not that great with the hose that comes with the CT22. I've tried different depth settings on the saw. Still have to try the lager hose(36mm). Many members on the forum state that the results with the larger hose are better.

 

[Rob Z]

Hi Nigel, and welcome...

The best endorsement I can give to you about the CT22 is this:  we used the CT22 with an electric concrete saw to cut over 200 lineal feet of concrete in a basement.  Dust control  was so good that we could have not worn respirators (but still did just to be safe).

I bought an extra sdet of HEPA filters, thinking that surely the first HEPA's would be destroyed by all the dust. I think we changed the bag three times, but the HEPA's were nearly clean after all that cutting.

 

[Brice Burrell]

I use the TS 55 saw with the CT22. The dust extraction is not that great with the hose that comes with the CT22. I've tried different depth settings on the saw. Still have to try the lager hose(36mm). Many members on the forum state that the results with the larger hose are better.

Simon, I'm not sure why you aren't getting satisfactory results form the dust collection. The larger hose doesn't really make a big difference unless you're cutting material near the maximum capacity of the saw. I bet this is more of your perception than a problem with the CT or TS saw. Dust escapes at the beginning and at the end of a cut since the blade isn't enclosed inside the material. If you're cross cutting narrow stock the dust collection isn't that great compared to making a long cut where the almost all of the dust can be collected. That said here are some things to check.

The first thing I'd look at is the suction level, make sure the CT is set to full suction (all the way towards the rabbet). The second thing I'd look at is the filter bag, the suction generally drops off some when the bag starts to get 3/4 full, then check the main filters and make sure they are clean. Try these things and see if the results are any better.

 

[Brice Burrell]

To my European Festoolers
Are any of you familiar with this vac?

http://www.levetec.com/images/ps2800EN.pdf

I know it is a Swedish company.  I have thinking about pulling the trigger on it for a while now.

60% of my collection is concrete dust

Pulse clean filter
Cyclone
Dust free change to plastic bags

Craig

Craig, DeWalt is coming out with a new tool activated vac with the pulse cleaning feature, might be worth looking into.

 

[score0matic]

Brice
It is an updated Porter Cable  which happens to be made by Karcher.

I have thrashed several good vacs, a PC, a Fien, and a Wap

What I use now is the $29.00 ridgid.  I made an exhaust manifold that has a hepa filter to catch : some of : the fines.
I go through one to two a year  $500 over 10 years or so I rationalize.

When I am grinding in homes and occupied areas I set up a Negative pressure area with this http://www.drieaz.com/_DEC/DEC_Product_Base.aspx?decID=1041

 

[Nigel]

Thanks for all your responses
Dave,Glad your happy with your Festool.Felt the same about the Karcher till it died.Suction is on a par Karcher 3660 l/min against Festool 3800l/min.
Alex, you may be right,I myself am frowning.However, it was sold as trade machine by the biggest  building trade supplier in France.It seems strange Karcher would add a socket,variable speed,pulse cleaning,antistatic grounded hose etc to a DIY model but who knows maybe they did.I have taken out the motor/turbine.No dust at all in the motor section.Fair bit of dust in the switch/circuit section.Reckon I just got a duffer.
Bob, thanks for the SRM link,unfortunately way out of budget.
Brice,The Dewalt you mention is the same as the Karcher(thanks chairmon you got there before me  It's also sold( in France) anyway as Flex for use with the giraffe, Flex version of the planex.I know drywall dust is deadly for vacs and I,ve taken care to replace the filter 3 times(In 14 months is that enough?)I really only sand drywall occassionaly.Your right about the on/off use with any tool connected.Does this kind of use destroy motors more quickly?I would probably replace with ctl/ctm cleantex 36.Do any of you have any experience wiyh these models.I assume the ctm is for toxic dust?
Thanks for the freindly welcome and advice,Nigel.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Alex, you may be right,I myself am frowning.However, it was sold as trade machine by the biggest  building trade supplier in France.It seems strange Karcher would add a socket,variable speed,pulse cleaning,antistatic grounded hose etc to a DIY model but who knows maybe they did.I have taken out the motor/turbine.No dust at all in the motor section.Fair bit of dust in the switch/circuit section.Reckon I just got a duffer.

I didn't mean to say it was a DIY model, I meant to say that it was made for a different branch, namely the professional cleaning industry, who clean the inside of buildings on a daily basis. This is the branch where Karcher became big and mainly caters to.

Those vacs are used differently than the vacs used by contractors. When you clean a building you're mostly sucking up soft dust that consists out of human skin flakes laying on the ground, while a contractor 'abuses' his vac a lot more, with heavier dust like in your own application, drywall, or just bigger amounts of dust, like when sawing. So the contractor needs a more robust machine.

But with the Karchers it looks like they mainly developed their vacs for the cleaning industry as a basis, with all the professionalism and robustness that that specific industry needs, and then slap a socket for a power tool on it, in the hope they can also sell that same model to a couple of unsuspecting contractors.

If you want real contractor's vacs, look at models made by a company named Starmix, who supply the vacs for a lot of power tool brands like Bosch, Metabo, Hilti, AEG and a lot more. Also Festool's vacs are top rated, made by a company named Kranzle.

 

[Nigel]

OK Alex I understand what your saying.Thanks for taking the time to explain it.I have seen Kranzle power washers and they seem to be highly rated.I did not know they made the Festools.
Justin,I used to use an orbital sander but since using the rotex find it much quicker.I know what you mean about having wasted hard earned on inferior brands.I definitely feel on the edge of a steep incline......

 

[Nigel]

Craig,The exctractor in your link will only power tools up to 1600 W.Might be a bit feeble for some tools.