HVLP for on site spraying

[tjbnwi]

Tim,

The needles  pass through a packing nut at the back of the head. On some of my needles I have to snug the nut just a touch, loosen for others so it doesn't hang. Give the nut a nudge next time you want to spray dye, your problem should go away.

The larger tip will allow more fluid flow, I use the 6 with a 5 air cap.

I think I'll have to get a CAT gun and see what I'm missing. I do have a large compressor so that is not a problem.

Tom

 

[tiralie]

The needles  pass through a packing nut at the back of the head. On some of my needles I have to snug the nut just a touch, loosen for others so it doesn't hang. Give the nut a nudge next time you want to spray dye, your problem should go away.

Thanks, Tom. I will try that.
Tim

 

[tjbnwi]

You should have recieved a wrench (key for you Canadians) with the unit. It is a multi broach piece. Flat tee shaped.

Tom

 

[jimbouk]

Thanks Scott. Is the compressor your shop compressor? I assume the piston cycles when a low pressure threshold is reached. I heard it on the video a couple of times and knew it was a positive displacement piston pump. I use to service a Graco twin piston unit that delivered 2 part potting compound through a twin port gun with a spiral blending tip. Sound just like that when it cycled.

You mention one thing that really gets to me. Guns without swivel or rotating connectors. I've used rigs that belong to others and want to throw the cheep a.. gun across the room. Sometimes people just don't know what their missing.

Tom

Correct, Tom. The 16'ers we are spraying are probably the max in constant trigger engagement that most people will do, so that made it a good way to check out the cycles. Also, it takes some dialing to avoid "winking" in the spray pattern during the stroke of the piston. You can get a little skip in the upstroke of the piston if not in the sweet spot of the settings.

Yes, it is running off our shop compressor. We tried it on 3 different skids and pancakes and the eos would just drain them. So, we went out and bought a 33 gallon tank to run this, and its 10.14 sibling. We have video footage of the 10.14 in Zar Ultramax spraying about 4000 lf of pine shiplap. Smaller pump and even lower settings.

I have been told (but have not worked with) that the CaT and Merkur setups are similar to Kremlin.

And yes, its the little things, like a well placed swivel fitting that make a big difference. Speaking of which, one other key difference between this and the mainstream aaa pumps we use is that the hose is under such lower pressure that it is MUCH easier for the operator to manage. We never realized how much it sucked wrestling with a high pressure anaconda. The Kremlin hose just lays there and you can flop it around with little resistance. Sometimes a bunch of small things add up to make a big difference.

We have gotten a little bit away from the original posters needs, but this discussion is definitely covering some ground in different sprayer technologies. It is a lot to sort out and keep up with.

Man I feel like my heads gonna explode  [eek]

Really appreciate you guys taking time to provide all this information, I feel like I'm doing an internet course in spraying

That kremlin thing is awesome, if i could take that bad boy on site it would be a done deal without even thinking about the cost...

Do you run that with extraction and filtration at your shop Scott? or can it be done without? \it would be great if there is a smaller version of that for site work.

I really like the idea of no pot on the gun and the swivel hoses, great for going into tight spots or round corners.

Thanks again to you all.

 

[jimbouk]

Scott,

After reading your site I'm thinking graco 395....would that be suitable?

I know this is some way away from what I started looking at but we do refurbs ( remodels) and this would speed up our decoration and quality in all areas maybe?

 

[Scott B.]

Scott,

After reading your site I'm thinking graco 395....would that be suitable?

I know this is some way away from what I started looking at but we do refurbs ( remodels) and this would speed up our decoration and quality in all areas maybe?

Jim

Yes. I have often said, and most days would say, that if I had to choose just one sprayer to do absolutely everything in my life, it would probably have to be the 395. It is a great shop rig, but also a great field rig. Can be run straight up airless, or air assisted, there is little that it can't do well.

We have put so many miles on ours...if you follow this video through to our youtube channel, we have a rather substantial playlist which shows the 395 in lots of production and quality tasks.

 

[Scott B.]

Quote from Jimbouk: Man I feel like my heads gonna explode  

Really appreciate you guys taking time to provide all this information, I feel like I'm doing an internet course in spraying

That kremlin thing is awesome, if i could take that bad boy on site it would be a done deal without even thinking about the cost...

Do you run that with extraction and filtration at your shop Scott? or can it be done without? \it would be great if there is a smaller version of that for site work.

I really like the idea of no pot on the gun and the swivel hoses, great for going into tight spots or round corners.

Thanks again to you all.

Jim

The Kremlin pumps in my opinion are ideal for shop based work. The 395 is better designed for the travelling team.

The next step down, or smaller version of the Kremlin concept would be the Apollo 1050vr (see below), which Kremlin in fact now rebadges and sells as their official hvlp for exactly that reason. What we do is pretty much run the 395 as our paint/primer grade specialist and the Apollo in clears. The time wasted in changing an aaa machine back and forth between paint and clear grade is a pet peeve of mine, as well as the risk involved. So for me it is best to have one dedicated to each.

The Apollo also works in waterborne primers and paints (see our yt apollo playlist if curious). Overall, from what you are describing, I think the 395 would serve all of your needs for many years.

And yes, this has been a great thread to discuss sprayer options, I am sure it will help others in the future by being archived here.

Here is the Apollo doing its thing:

 

[jimbouk]

Scott,

Thanks you once again!

I think i have made my mind up  [smile]

I'm going to get the Graco pro shot as a starter as there will be plenty of small site applications where I think it will be perfect, many units / jobs as you say in your videos would not justify setting up a full rig. So in my thread jimbos creations I have some pics of the unit I'm going to spray with the pro shot on tuesday. Will post pics and details here and there when done.

Cheers guys and thanks once again.

 

[Scott B.]

Scott,

Thanks you once again!

I think i have made my mind up  [smile]

I'm going to get the Graco pro shot as a starter as there will be plenty of small site applications where I think it will be perfect, many units / jobs as you say in your videos would not justify setting up a full rig. So in my thread jimbos creations I have some pics of the unit I'm going to spray with the pro shot on tuesday. Will post pics and details here and there when done.

Cheers guys and thanks once again.

Right on Jimbo. Be sure to get the ProShot 2, if it is available in your area. (I can post a pic if needed). You want the variable pressure control, 20v batt, and flexible downtube, among other upgraded features on it.

I saw your other thread, and that piece will be a good place to dial in. Thin your product a touch and shoot some cardboard or something before going on the piece. With  the proshot you have to move! Dial it down as much as you can on the pressure. Taking a proshot inside a cabinet is not easy, so you may find yourself spraying "into" the cabinet. Do multiple passes and build your finish, rather than going for it all in one. Also, your proshot will likely come with about a 517 tip. Get a couple of smaller ones for cabinet use. Good luck!

 

[jimbouk]

Cheers Scott,

I think its this one? http://www.spraystore.com/p/11/graco-easymax-ff-cordless-airless-sprayer

might just have a different name this side of the pond?

 

[Scott B.]

Cheers Scott,

I think its this one? http://www.spraystore.com/p/11/graco-easymax-ff-cordless-airless-sprayer

might just have a different name this side of the pond?

Negative. That is the previous generation Proshot (or Easymax) Fine Finish.

I am not sure if the new generation is over there yet, but the one you are looking for has a 20v battery, and is 2000 psi. The one pictured is 1500 psi, but otherwise very similar. The new one is called the ProShot 2 in the states. If you can get it, the extra 500 psi is handy, and the tip selection is better, plus the bigger battery and flexible suck tube.

 

[Scott B.]

Again, I am not entirely familiar with uk options, but according to the supplier you linked there are 2 cordless options available. The one you linked, and this one:

http://www.spraystore.com/p/10/graco-easymax-wp-cordless-airless-sprayer

This one is 2000 psi, but appears to lack the pressure control, which is really an important feature.

These two options are basically the previous generation ps fine finish and straight ps. It is a tough call, but given the choices, I might go for the fine finish in order to have better control. I have run thinned latex primer and paint as low as 1000 psi in the fine finish and the generation 2, so I know that the fine finish can do it, I have just grown to like the second generation better with 2000 psi and full control etc.

You might research it a bit more or check with your Graco supplier/rep to see if the generation 2 proshot is at all available over there.

This is the ProShot 2 on this side of the pond: http://www.graco.com/us/en/products/contractor/proshot-ii-cordless.html

 

[jimbouk]

Cool, the proshot isnt availible here but there are others....

Found this beast http://www.spraystore.com/p/11/graco-easymax-ff-cordless-airless-sprayer

But I think the one I first linked to (the ff) which has the pressure adjustment will be more practical than the extra 500 psi...?!

Importing a proshot would be a hassle plus I need to get this job out the way asap.

 

[Scott B.]

Cool, the proshot isnt availible here but there are others....

Found this beast http://www.spraystore.com/p/11/graco-easymax-ff-cordless-airless-sprayer

But I think the one I first linked to (the ff) which has the pressure adjustment will be more practical than the extra 500 psi...?!

Importing a proshot would be a hassle plus I need to get this job out the way asap.

Jim

Go with the 1500 psi and the pressure control. It will serve you better overall than a fixed 2000 psi.

I'm not going to muddy up this thread with anymore videos, but if you want to see them both in action, go to the Graco playlist on my yt channel. Video #2 on the playlist is the Proshot 2 (2000 psi) and video #12 is the previous generation fine finish (1500psi), which you are considering. They are on identical tasks in the vids and there is little difference in the performance and quality. In both vids, the paint is Benjamin Moore wb satin impervo 314.

The workaround is just to thin your product a bit more judiciously. Not sure what you are using for primers and paints over there, but I am sure you could get the fine finish to dial in.

 

[jimbouk]

Are you looking over my shoulder [tongue]
...I'm researching primer now!

 

[Jalvis]

Lots of great information in this thread.  If someone doesn't have experience with spraying this stuff is way over there heads!

In my experience simpler is better unless your spraying lots of different products and often.  Obviously theres no such thing as one system that will meet every need or product.  Therefore one really needs a minimum of two 'rigs' to fit a spectrum of options.  

Another system I've used that is very versatile is the CapSpray HVLP Sprayer System.  Check out the link:

http://www.eastcoasttoolsma.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=212&products_id=12310&gclid=CI-7y43S97QCFSmCQgod5lUAQA

Back in the day this system was nearly $2grand.  I've seen this system dialed in to allow for 2" tape for masking shooting oil based enamels on crown.  Thats amazing control and no overspray!

Like I was saying "simpler" really comes down to having a versatile system that you have lots of experience using.  When it comes to HVLP I find its best to use the same size needle and thin the material for the best results.  For guys that aren't shooting everyday this simplifies the system.  Its much easier to spray multiple coats with more control then to spray thicker material and less coats.  Far less room for error.
 

 

[tiralie]

Taking a proshot inside a cabinet is not easy, so you may find yourself spraying "into" the cabinet.

I have never used one, but I have handled one at retail and they are not "light" and that was without any paint in the canister. Compared to a gun on a pressure pot etc., I don't imagine they are easy to maneuver in cramped corners.
Tim

 

[Jalvis]

Taking a proshot inside a cabinet is not easy, so you may find yourself spraying "into" the cabinet.

I have never used one, but I have handled one at retail and they are not "light" and that was without any paint in the canister. Compared to a gun on a pressure pot etc., I don't imagine they are easy to maneuver in cramped corners.
Tim

I've thought about a Proshot several times but it seems to have a short span of uses such as doors and trim.  From what I can tell the overspray can get heavy so its best if the doors or trim are shot in a controlled space before installation.  After handling the unit the idea of use in cabinet compartments seems more than difficult.

 

[tiralie]

You should have recieved a wrench (key for you Canadians) with the unit. It is a multi broach piece. Flat tee shaped.
Tom

I did get the "key" wrench. Why they didn't make a cutout that fits the fluid nozzle is beyond me.
To change sets you do need to remove these.
That's another thing I like about the CAT guns, they come in a case and everything is there, including the tool to remove the nozzeles.
Tim

 

[Scott B.]

Taking a proshot inside a cabinet is not easy, so you may find yourself spraying "into" the cabinet.

I have never used one, but I have handled one at retail and they are not "light" and that was without any paint in the canister. Compared to a gun on a pressure pot etc., I don't imagine they are easy to maneuver in cramped corners.
Tim

Tim

The ProShot is the chunky chick at the dance, for sure.

I remember when they first came out in '10. The first generation was large. Fat chassis and heavy. Especially when full, and she didn't stay full long. I am not sure what the transfer efficiency is, but the mileage is less than desirable. Inside a cabinet, all of this works against you.

When they ff came out the next year, they put a more compact 18v on it, and a narrower chassis, a little lighter. But still a full cup and a battery on there.

The ProShot 2 (2000 psi variable) is built on the fine finish chassis, but still a chunky checker.

I am the geek who takes these things and tries to put them WAY out of their element. So my '10 review of the original, I did a whole house cabinet job with it. It worked. At the time I was more enamored by the fact that it was cordless and hoseless. There is some value there. I laid out 72 cabinet doors and shelves and literally just walked around the shop spraying it all on the flat. The one thing I will say about the 2000 psi proshots is that they encourage production, you have to move it to keep up with them. Being able to control pressure is key. With the right combo of product and tip, you can throw paint clear across the room. This comes in handy when ((as a painter) you figure out that you have a new cutting tool. You can get 4 inches solid on each side of inside corners in seconds and roll wet right into it. And on exteriors, fascia, soffets, corner boards etc. And deck rail systems. Capacity is an issue, but they have come out with a backpack which holds a gallon and gets the cup off the gun. Haven't done enough with it yet to know if its a real solution at the pro level. Cordless is cool, and this is definitely the best incarnation of that technology. And I've got the full cleanup sequence down to about 4 minutes. Convenience.

PS...just noticed that in my avatar pic to the left, I am spraying large cabinets with a proshot  [scared]