HVLP for on site spraying

[tjbnwi]

I only use it for large runs, believe it was your post and video over at JLC (could have been here, not sure) a few years back that caused me to look at it. Unfortunately it has sat for about a year. Nothing large enough to warrant its use. The doors and cubbies will be a chance for it to get some exercise. For the prototypes I only used the Fugi. Not enough surface area to break out the AAA. I didn't recommend it in this thread, because I don"t feel it is great to take out and set up in the field. Most of the times when I'm shooting in the field it is rooms of latex and I find the Mag X9 Pro easier to transport and set up and clean. If I have to shoot doors and trim onsite, I use the FF tips and shoot with them. Didn't tape a single area on the last two even though the trim was in place. Paint shields and an extra pair of hands. These were not high end jobs, otherwise another approach would have been taken.

Tom

 

[dkorn]

Graco information is indeed very poor. They don't tell you about the inlet valve. They don't tell you about the thingy  behind the tip assembly you can clean after unscrewing it. Before I came across this piece of info on topcoatreview, I had a non-working Proshot, so I thought, the hell with it, let's take it apart, it can't be worse. Well, putting it back together was much more tedious than if I had known the couple of simple maintenance operations outlined by Scott, which don't require dismantling the whole thing.
BTW, a 22 wrench is what you need.
I still don't even know what pump armor is, or does. Lubricant? Cleaner? Sealer? Wish Graco gave out more information so as to actually understand what can or cannot be done, and take an informed decision based on that.

 

[tjbnwi]

Pump Armor is Graco's storage fluid.

http://www.graco.com/us/en/products/contractor/pump-armor.html

Tom

 

[tjbnwi]

Scoot,

I found the Kremlin on line for about $2500.00 plus a hose and gun. I think I'll use what I have and bank more of the profits, if I get the door job.

Tom

 

[Scott B.]

I only use it for large runs, believe it was your post and video over at JLC (could have been here, not sure) a few years back that caused me to look at it. Unfortunately it has sat for about a year. Nothing large enough to warrant its use. The doors and cubbies will be a chance for it to get some exercise. For the prototypes I only used the Fugi. Not enough surface area to break out the AAA. I didn't recommend it in this thread, because I don"t feel it is great to take out and set up in the field. Most of the times when I'm shooting in the field it is rooms of latex and I find the Mag X9 Pro easier to transport and set up and clean. If I have to shoot doors and trim onsite, I use the FF tips and shoot with them. Didn't tape a single area on the last two even though the trim was in place. Paint shields and an extra pair of hands. These were not high end jobs, otherwise another approach would have been taken.

Tom

Cool, I didn't realize you had pulled the trigger (sic) on a 395. That does give you long term options. I bought mine in late '10 specifically for one very large cabinet job. I ran clear through it on that one job (used hvlp for clears after that until getting into Kremlin testing), then switched the 395 over to a paint grade shop rig for the better part of a couple years, and finally made it a site paint grade rig. It is the sprayer that we use the most across the board. If I had to pick just one rig to live with exclusively, it would probably be that one because I know I can do everything with it. I don't like going back and forth from clear to paint in those things. You can just never get them absolutely 100% flushed. Every time I pull the diaphragm filter, I appreciate this decision.

It is a little bulky in transport to jobs, loading it is like loading a pressure washer. Once on the job, its easier to maneuver than the old skid style 440's we sprayed drywall with forever.

The Kremlin's are shop use only. I will just never load our air and head out to a job. So if you find yourself wandering down that road, you would want to either sell your 395 or commit to paint grade in the field, use hvlp for clear in the field, and kremlin dedicated to shop stain and clear.

It does sound like you have the bases covered, but I know how easy it is to nerd out with these set ups.

 

[Scott B.]

Scoot,

I found the Kremlin on line for about $2500.00 plus a hose and gun. I think I'll use what I have and bank more of the profits, if I get the door job.

Tom

Yikes, that was for the 10.14? Run fast ! The gun is like $900. And I won't burden you with how remarkable it is.

For your needs, a dedicated hose and a g15 for the 395 would be much more feasible (just get really good at cleaning the pump and stocking many filters).

Depending on how many doors you are producing at a time, you could easily keep up with them hvlp style anyways. Do you do any pressure potting?

 

[Scott B.]

Graco information is indeed very poor. They don't tell you about the inlet valve. They don't tell you about the thingy  behind the tip assembly you can clean after unscrewing it. Before I came across this piece of info on topcoatreview, I had a non-working Proshot, so I thought, the heck with it, let's take it apart, it can't be worse. Well, putting it back together was much more tedious than if I had known the couple of simple maintenance operations outlined by Scott, which don't require dismantling the whole thing.
BTW, a 22 wrench is what you need.
I still don't even know what pump armor is, or does. Lubricant? Cleaner? Sealer? Wish Graco gave out more information so as to actually understand what can or cannot be done, and take an informed decision based on that.

dk

Check with your dealer and see if you can get your hands on the graco dvd.

Not sure the exact chemistry intentions of the Pump Armor, but it works as a cleaner / lubricant.

 

[dkorn]

Yes, I know, and I bought a bottle when I go the Proshot. By more info, I meant what I can use it for, besides "run some through the tool before long time storage" per Graco instructions. Like what Scott does, when he says he soaks the inlet valve with it when he cleans it. Whatever helps keeping the tool up to spec

 

[dkorn]

Thanks Scott, I'll try to get the DVD, maybe call Graco.

 

[Scott B.]

Yes, I know, and I bought a bottle when I go the Proshot. By more info, I meant what I can use it for, besides "run some through the tool before long time storage" per Graco instructions. Like what Scott does, when he says he soaks the inlet valve with it when he cleans it. Whatever helps keeping the tool up to spec

If I have it out, I will use it for alot. I have a whole tip ritual, which you probably saw on the site, that involves toothpicks, toothbrushes and I will soak tip assemblies in pump armor. Its kind of like wd-40 in my mind. Even wipe down the chassis of the thing when you are done cleaning. Any further than that and it gets all Brice, where you are breaking out Armor All.

Just be sure to keep the battery housing from getting any part of all this and the water during cleanup. In my opinion, this is why so many people have battery issues with the proshot. I dont think its always the battery, I think they are soaking the contacts.

 

[tjbnwi]

Scoot,

I found the Kremlin on line for about $2500.00 plus a hose and gun. I think I'll use what I have and bank more of the profits, if I get the door job.

Tom

Yikes, that was for the 10.14? Run fast ! The gun is like $900. And I won't burden you with how remarkable it is.

For your needs, a dedicated hose and a g15 for the 395 would be much more feasible (just get really good at cleaning the pump and stocking many filters).

Depending on how many doors you are producing at a time, you could easily keep up with them hvlp style anyways. Do you do any pressure potting?

Yes the 10.14.

I do keep dedicated hoses for the different finishes. I have different hose for the Fugi, pressure pot to gun. I do my best to keep one product from contaminating the other. Thats the beauty of the PPS on the Fugi, quick change out and storage.

dkorn,

I use the Pump Armor when ever I am done for the day. Long term storage or overnight. The pump gets cleaned and treated. Cheep insurance against start up wear and material gumming.

I have yet to use the TSL.

Torch tip cleaners if used carefully are great for cleaning the holes, just be carful with them.

Tom

 

[dkorn]

Thanks Scott & Tom
I do take the battery out when I clean the elements, before running water through the machine. Good to know you can clean the chassis with it. Mine is all sandpaper-y now !
Torch-tip cleaner: duly noted.

Would love to see a pro shot II review/bench test someday --besides Graco's own marketing vids. Something thorough, applications-based.

 

[Scott B.]

Thanks Scott & Tom
I do take the battery out when I clean the elements, before running water through the machine. Good to know you can clean the chassis with it. Mine is all sandpaper-y now !
Torch-tip cleaner: duly noted.

Would love to see a pro shot II review/bench test someday --besides Graco's own marketing vids. Something thorough, applications-based.

Thats coming down the line with us. The PS2 has appeared in a couple of our videos but not specifically about it. I believe one of the vids was how to prep and paint mdf doors, and there was another where it was in some on site footage shooting pieces horizontally. We didn't announce it because it was very early testing and it was prior to the official launch of it. If you are curious to see/hear it in action on the job, those are out there, albeit brief.

 

[tiralie]

I found the Kremlin on line for about $2500.00 plus a hose and gun.

In a recent This Old House it looked like a Kremlin gun (gold) they were spraying the counter top with.

I found it humorous that in the cabinet shop (Paul Grothouse) they used a Martin table saw to get a nice bevel on the counter and talked about how much power you needed to cut the 2" butcher block top and then when they got on site Tommy cut the bottom off with a Festool 75 and rail.
Tim

 

[nehardwoodfloors]

I have been considering buying the ProShot corded lately. But I would use it for watery chemical solutions we have been using to naturally color wood.
I would also try using it with a 2K waterbased finish on last coats?

Scott which model is best for watery concoctions? Any tips for a floor guy considering using these? I would use it to spray down at all times.
Refilling the container might get tedious but I think if I had to drag the whole floor model setups to jobs I wouldnt use it much. So manuverability and size is key.

Some of the liquids I would use are water cosistency and for the floor. Others are watered down latex paint pre colors for floors. And lastly to apply waterbased last coats.

Would this work? Downfalls?

 

[Scott B.]

I have been considering buying the ProShot corded lately. But I would use it for watery chemical solutions we have been using to naturally color wood.
I would also try using it with a 2K waterbased finish on last coats?

Scott which model is best for watery concoctions? Any tips for a floor guy considering using these? I would use it to spray down at all times.
Refilling the container might get tedious but I think if I had to drag the whole floor model setups to jobs I wouldnt use it much. So manuverability and size is key.

Some of the liquids I would use are water cosistency and for the floor. Others are watered down latex paint pre colors for floors. And lastly to apply waterbased last coats.

Would this work? Downfalls?

My gut reaction is that it would be slow. The ProShot 2 or the Fine Finish would be good in those viscosities though, and both have pressure control. As you may have read above, we are experimenting with the 1 gal backpack, that could be cool for that sort of thing from a mobility and total cordless/hoseless standpoint. You would want extra batteries around though. If that did work, two guys with backpack kits could probably cover alot of ground fast.

I don't know the types of application you are describing, but would a garden style pump sprayer work? That is how we apply chems to decks and siding when we need to. You can actually get a pretty fine pattern with one, for how cheap they are, and you can run a 2 gal slung over your shoulder. Not sure if that would be an option, but might be worth a look, certainly very cost effective if it did work.

 

[nehardwoodfloors]

We have used those. They seem to not fully cover the surface fast enough. I figured a power one might spit more out finer and quicker?

 

[tjbnwi]

I spray water and alcohol mixed dyes with my Fugi. I don't think I would try an airless for this at all. I think there would be way to much over atomization.

Tom

 

[tiralie]

I spray water and alcohol mixed dyes with my Fugi. I don't think I would try an airless for this at all. I think there would be way to much over atomization.

Tom:
I agree. If there ever was an ideal pairing, the Fuji sprays (mists) dye and thin coatings like shellac really well.
Tim

 

[tjbnwi]

Tim,

Did you get your leaky needle fixed?

Tom