HVLP for on site spraying

[ericbuggeln]

Im ready and waiting to buy whatever he instructs me to buy and then jump in head first, Eric

 

[tiralie]

The gun is definitely quality and that was in comparison to his Kremlins. It packs up real nice and I could see that being a bonus. For $300, I could buy it next week, use it on the next couple of jobs while learning, whereas $1000+ I would need to save up for. I'm going into this thinking that I will own multiple HVLPs one day. Unless someone can convince me I need something nicer? Eric

Eric:
You stated that you will initially be spraying paint grade cabinets and moving to stain grade so I would advise against  the Earlex 5500. Ultimately I don't think you will be happy spraying primer and or latex paint with Earlex. While I am sure you can spray some cheaper (thinner) latex etc. with the Earlex, it will take more time because you have to move slower than with a better system and well time is money.

The Earlex is a good solution to quick touch ups on site but for production work it really is going to be slow going.
Additionally, spraying inside cabinets with that cup is really not going to give you the type of finish your clients are looking for and really will piss you off.

In my view, a better HVLP system (5 stage) and/or a pressure pot or a compressor with

If you only want to spray stain or clear coats the Earlex would work.
Good luck.
Tim

 

[ericbuggeln]

Tim, I would spend at most $1000 and I would like that to be with all the bells and whistles if possible. I like the price point of the Q3 and maybe the Q4. What would you do? I hear about this "pressure pot", but don't know much about it? I have a PC pancake compressor, but will be upgrading to the Rolair JC10 sometime this year, if that helps, Eric

 

[deepcreek]

Eric,

I would recommend contacting Jeff Jewitt at Homestead Finishing http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com about a pressure pot setup with a conversion gun designed for low CFM so that you can use it with a small compressor.  You will need something bigger than a pancake but not a huge shop type.  I would add a surge tank to your compressor setup along with a drier.

I would get a C.A. Technologies 2-Qt Bandit Pot with dual regulators with an anti-tip stand and a 12 pack of replaceable liners.  Be sure to upgrade to the 15-foot twin hoses.  In my opinion, the 6-foot set is too short and the 25-foot set is too long.  Explain to them what you want to do with it and they will recommend the right needles, nozzles, and caps for each spray material.  You might also want to get a siphon cup to let you use the gun without the pressure pot for smaller jobs.  You can get an extra set of hoses if you want to keep one clean for your topcoat finishes.

I have this setup from them.  Mine came with an Asturo gun that I love but I think it has been discontinued.  Jeff Jewitt literally wrote the book on spray finishing.  http://www.amazon.com/Spray-Finishing-Simple-Step-Step/dp/1600850928 and will include simple step-by-step instructions with the pressure pot and conversion gun on how to set it up, use it, and clean it.  I'd get a cleaning kit from them while you're at it.

I hope this helps.

Joe Adams

 

[Brice Burrell]

Tim, I would spend at most $1000 and I would like that to be with all the bells and whistles if possible. I like the price point of the Q3 and maybe the Q4. What would you do? I hear about this "pressure pot", but don't know much about it? I have a PC pancake compressor, but will be upgrading to the Rolair JC10 sometime this year, if that helps, Eric

I understand the Q3 price is more attractive, but, I think you should hold out for a 4 stage or even a 5 stage if you want to spay paint.  You seem to be on the right track with lacquer.  Lacquer can be tinted to match any paint you'll need to match in the client's home.  Again, no expert here, but I say holdout for the Q4.

 

[peter halle]

I would hold out for something other than the Earlex.  I have the 6900 along with all the needle / cap sets and although I have made my money with it, I would shop for a different brand.  My experiences:  The hose assembly consistently slipped of the gun while in operation.  The gun cup developed a leak where the mounting studs were attached.  And the hose got so hot in operation that the hose separated from the fitting that mounts to the turbine.

The manufacturer offered to make all these situations good for me under warranty, but at that time I needed the setup so I used duct tape to hold the hose to the gun, wrapped a towel around the cup  so that when spraying cabinet doors on the flat I didn't drip on them, and I tried everything to hold the hose to the turbine.

I also found that latex had to thinned considerably more than recommended in order to be sprayed with even the largest tip.

Now my situation might have been the perfect storm of issues, but like you, if I need it, I need it now.  Take a look at other units would be my friendly advice.

Peter

 

[tjbnwi]

Eric, I'm going to be brutally honest----if you make this decision base on price you're an idiot ;D In the long run a cheep unit will cost you money and time. It will be nothing but an aggravation. I listed a pressure pot as one of the items I have for the Q4, the primary reason is for shooting paint. As I said before, HVLP units do not play well with latex paint, that is why I recommended tintable lacquer. I got the Q4 before the 395, if I had the 395 first, I most likely would not have purchased the pressure pot.

Peter, Seth or Shane will probably delete the idiot comment, but I don't know any other way to get the point across. Take the pieces you need to finish now over to your friends place and shoot them with the proper equipment. Try and set aside some funds from the next few jobs to purchase a good unit.

Tom

 

[ericbuggeln]

Tom, definitely don't want to be an idiot. I don't even spend money on tools until I have fully exhausted all options. The Earlexi is out. Both guys who I know who have an Apollo and Turbinaire respectively still are using units from the early 90s, so I realize this is an investment that will pay dividends for many years to come. Plus, I'm known to pay extra to not have headaches. Headaches ruin my day. I can't wait for Scott to swoop in and school me. I'm also gonna look into Homestead Finishing. I'm not rushing into anything.

This really hurts Festool the most as I will be depleting the Kapex fund, again. Did just get the Makita 7 1/2 saw and it is sweet, thanks guys I've learned a lot, Eric

 

[tiralie]

What would you do?

Well given your problem, I'd wait till I got a job, or design a project so that I had to get a system and then buy the best system for that project. In this case an air assisted airless or Airless system. On the other hand, spray guns/systems are like guitars, one is nice but you always need a different one depending on the application or look you are trying to achieve.

I would recommend contacting Jeff Jewitt at Homestead Finishing

I think Joe's advice is spot on. Talk to Jeff tell him what you are trying to achieve and then take his advice. Buy the system and practice, practice practice.

I have a caveat and would encourage you to explore with Jeff, the idea of a 4 stage turbine system with a pressure pot (2 Qt. Bandit as Joe describes) using your existing compressor. It may be a good solution.

I am not convinced that using only a 2HP compressor gives you enough CFM even using a low CFM conversion guns to get a good pattern spraying primer and latex. I have a low CFM cat gun that I haven't tried out yet so take that comment for what it's worth. These low CFM conversion guns were originally designed for touch up work where the gun trigger pulled in short bursts allowing the compressor to catch up. This is not always the case when spraying a large cabinet, and the last thing you want to do is spend half the day waiting for the compressor to catch up, it's really really frustrating. Also, I think getting a new compressor seems premature, and an added expense you could do without.

I really think teaming up a turbine with a small compressor on a the pressure pot really is the best of both worlds. 2HP, 120vlt/15amp compressors are not designed to output the high CFM's that HVLP systems require but turbines do that well, while turbines cannot provide enough pressure to adequately move high viscosity coatings like Target's EM6500 pigmented lacquer. A system like this is portable, allows you to spray in tight areas and control over spray for working on site albiet a bit slower.  Additionally a 4 stage turbine by itself can atomize clear coatings and with the proper setup spray stain beautifully.

Today, before I bought anything, I would take a one day course at McFaddens on spraying wood. I did this on the recommendation of some very smart guys here on FOG, after I bought my Q4. I probably would have bought my Q4 as it has come in very handy but if it was my only system I would be using a brush, roller or one of "Seths" pads to finish my stuff. The course at McFaddens of spoiled me for using my Q4 and if I wasn't convinced I needed a compressor driven gun before I went to the course I was certainly convinced after.

Learn about different systems, and read as much as you can. Join the Homestead finishing site and read the posts that relate to what you are doing. I find the Target coatings forum to be invaluable and if you are using any waterbourne coating like General Finishes what they advise on the Target Forum applies. I like to read the Woodweb finishing forum and there is a wealth of knowledge and expertise in the archives.

Let us know how you get on and what you find out. It'll be fun!
Tim

 

[tjbnwi]

Tim,

With my Fugi, the compressor only pressurizes the pot. I run 10-20 psi to the pot, I find this more than adequate to move the fluid. The nozzle/air cap air is supply by the Q4 turbine.

I shoot Kem Aqua tinted through the cup with no problems. I'll have to get some Target tinted to see if it is heavier.

Tom

 

[tiralie]

Tim,

With my Fugi, the compressor only pressurizes the pot. I run 10-20 psi to the pot, I find this more than adequate to move the fluid. The nozzle/air cap air is supply by the Q4 turbine.

Tom

Tom:
Yes, that's what I understand and meant, sorry if that's not how I wrote it.
Tim

 

[ericbuggeln]

So do I want a Q4 with this? I think I just realized that in twenty years I don't want to look back and congratulate myself for saving $200. I'm at your mercy, please be kind, Eric

 

[ericbuggeln]

Tim, great post. I'm gonna spend this weekend reading as much as I can and then I'm gonna schedule an appointment with Jeff and try to figure out a realistic budget that I can save for, thanks Eric

 

[tjbnwi]

I now use a Jc-10 compressor. If your getting on just get the pot, forgo the compressor in the picture. In my earlier post the pot in my set is the 2.5 gallon at about $250.00, I hate cleaning so I just drop the gallon can in. The 2 quart pot is about $120.00 and may be all you need.

Tim,

I checked the EM6500 PDS, it lists the viscosity at 30-35 on a Zan #2, I found a conversion chart that shows that the same as 32 on a Ford 4. The KA is 32 from the factory. In the video, I had a #3 tip on the gun and it shot really well from the cup. I wonder if you have a check valve problem with your Fugi gun. I've had them and know in an instant the cup is not being pressurized. The pressure from the turbine is about 10 psi. I find that is more than enough to get the product from the cup to the tip.

Tom

 

[tiralie]

I shoot Kem Aqua tinted through the cup with no problems. I'll have to get some Target tinted to see if it is heavier.

Tom:
I have some time (I think) this week. I am gonna try it and see.
In terms of viscosity, I am thinking that Kem Aqua Pigmented Lacquer Primer is closer to Target EM6500 and Target EM6000 is closer to Kem Aqua .
Tim

 

[ericbuggeln]

My math has Joes set up at about $1100.00, which is totally doable. I will have to talk to Jeff about the compressors. I am just looking for a reason to get the JC10, if it works. Eric

 

[tiralie]

Tim,
I wonder if you have a check valve problem with your Fugi gun. I've had them and know in an instant the cup is not being pressurized. The pressure from the turbine is about 10 psi. I find that is more than enough to get the product from the cup to the tip.

I am fairly certain the cup is pressurized, I will double check. The gasket  needs to be changed. I can spray and it's ok, but I am too impatient. Perhaps less coffee would be good.
I noticed from your video that you are moving your arm slower than I do.

I am spoiled by my CAT H2O setup. I can move fast and it lays down a nice coat.
Tim

 

[ericbuggeln]

Okay, my first potentially stupid question. Does having a pressure pot mean that you have no pot on the gun, so you have more control inside cabs? Eric

 

[deepcreek]

Okay, my first potentially stupid question. Does having a pressure pot mean that you have no pot on the gun, so you have more control inside cabs? Eric

Yes.  The fluid is coming through one of the twin hoses (air is in the other) so you can get your gun into tight spots and turn or invert it as needed without the problems associated with a siphon cup or gravity feed.

Do you know about setting up a surge tank for your compressor?  They really cut down on pressure drop and cycle frequency.  There was a thread on it over at JLC a few years back.  I bought a $25 portable 5 gallon air tank and converted it.

 

[CarolinaNomad]

I went down the road of a conversion gun.  I bought an austro gun rated for 4 cfm and a rigid 4 gallon 6 cfm air compressor.  The setup worked for small pieces, but the air compressor would constantly run.  For a 2'x8' panel, I would have to stop spraying in order for the air compressor to catch up.  You could piggy back a larger tank with the air compressor, but that is just one more big item in the shop and definitely not portable.  And I would not recommend a 4 gallon air compressor inside a finished home.  I was using laquer, didn't try latex.  Basically, a conversion gun needs a big air compressor.  One that can deliver upwards of 12 cfm @ 40 psi and the volume of 50 gallon tank which requires approximately 240 v outlet.  

For a small shop and portable, HVLP is the way to go.  Per Scott, Tom and Tim, I purchased the Apollo 1050 vr for the main reason of spraying latex paint.  I spray both trim work, (wainscotting) all the way to spraying kitchen cabinets.  

Capspray 115 (6 Turbine) had great reviews as well.  The Capspray has only two settings which is 6 turbine on high and 4 turbines at low.  Read a lot of reviews from paint contractors at the PaintTalk.com forum.  And one contractor loves his Capspray 115, but 85% of the time he keeps it in the low setting.  Probably cause at the 6 turbine, it delivers the paint faster than he is accustomed too.  

For me, the one feature that was the deciding feature was the speed settings.    I chose the variable speed from Apollo.  And I buy 100% acrlyic WB paint use some form of floetrol.

Pressure pot is only a form of delivering the paint to the gun and is an added cost.  The bigger the pressure pot, the more you can spray at one given time.  However, the system will come with a cup and you can get started and save up for the pressure pot.  The smallest pressure pot I would recommed is one that can hold a gallon paint can.

Jeff