I am done

[nickao]

I have been an advocate for Festools for years. I first had to stop recommending the Kapex, then I had to stop recommending the Jig Saws, both the Carvex and the Triton. Finally I stopped recommending the MFT's and  my rusting loose, creaky OF 1400 and 1010 routers. Sold my RS 2, sold the linear sander, sold my TS 55 Track saw for a huge lack of power..

Now today I go to use my 6 month old RO 150, the dam plug it is fried, I have to hold it with 2 hands  to get it to work. Of course I have back ups, that's not the point. The point is my old RO lasted 8 years and the plug it never failed.

So I grab my ETc 150 to take over in a pinch, for the first time ever the dam sandpaper will NOT stay on the pad, this tool is 6 months old, the pad a brand new 90 day old hard pad. MY old pads last over 4 years!

I am on a deadline, this stuff need be done by Monday morning and now I have no Festool sander to get the job done other than my ETS 150 that is to light for the work.

So I have to pull out my backup Bosch, guess what the DEVS 1250 is just as good as the Rotex, I simply forget it has different feel, but it is every bit as powerful for less than half the cost. well Ill get used to it.

When I buy a tool I give a crap about the warranty if the tool doesn't last at least 3 years I am done with it. Look at my posts, I have been an advocate for over 8 years, longer really as I was on the forum when it was a yahoo group. I will never buy another Festool sander again.

That leaves the OF 2200, my only fear is my long a awaited upgrade I hope coming out in the next couple years I am not sure I can trust.

What the heck has happened to Festool over the last couple years, these tools are not lasting, they are not the same, something is amiss. From owning near every Festool sold in America I am now down to only recommending the OF 2200 router. I am so mad I am literally shaking.

New shop and making a move will not include Festool, how can it. it's a shame I loved this forum and the guys here, but with forum leaning toward not being able to talk about other tools and me not having anything nice to say about Festool  I just dont see me being here, I am not going to cause drama. The QC is out the window, reminds me of the Laguna fiasco of about 5 years ago, something its wrong.

I am done!

 

[aloysius]

You may very well be onto something here.  Apart from my couple of cordless drills, which were rubbish, all my older Festo/ols have been great:  Rotex, Deltex, CT22, SR 5E, BS75E, BS105E, HL850E, RS1C, RS4E.

All my post-millennial purchases:  Trion, Duplex (x2), Kapex, RO 90 have been somewhere on the spectrum of disappointing to utter schaisse!  I tend to look elsewhere these days for replacements & updates too.  I simply cannot afford to continue throwing good money after bad.

I'm sure some new Festools are good, but I'm also sure that there's some truly excellent & in some cases significantly superior alternatives out there too.

 

[Birdhunter]

I'm at the other end of the reliability spectrum, but am sorry you have had this experience. All of my Festool products have been bullet proof and they get heavy use abet non-professional.

When I updated my shop a few years ago, I gave away almost all my older power tools which were mostly DeWalt and Porter Cable to a young friend who is just starting out in woodworking. To my knowledge, these old tools are still serving my friend and they served me over at least 15 years.

I think there are a few Festool products, like the Domino, that are totally unique. But, the big box drills make round holes just like my Festool drills.

 

[Rollin22Petes]

I couldn't agree more I run an 8 man cabinet shop and we have had more problems/failures out of Festool's than all other brands combined. From a business standpoint I simply can't afford to invest any more money in any of them. To add insult to injury some of the reason's/excuse that I have received from Festool were just that insult's at best. Maybe Festool should spend more time fixing the core tools instead of making radios and lights. At this point they might as well lower there prices and sell them at the big box stores as there quality is no better than the rest!!!

 

[PeterK]

Interesting discussion. I have followed Dovetails posts for years and respect his views and experiences. I am a light hobby user so have not really stressed my Festool and they have worked well for me. I also own many other brands of portable tools and had no issues with my Bosch, Makita tools but some with a few other brands. It seemed to me that Festool started losing focus when they started relabeling and selling lower cost stuff as Festool. Lights, vacuum head, other accessory items.

I agree that the OF2200 is a most amazing power tool with incredible engineering and it truly epitomizes Festool’s abilities. I will be buried with mine. Just wish that Festool would continue to invest time and money developing tools of that quality.

 

[PreferrablyWood]

I'm not seeing such issues. The OF 1010 rusting and loose? not in my experience. The Kapex I see issues but there's just too many that buy it and use it, so I'm not wholly convinced that it's the big lemon it's been made out to be. The carvex 420 does well for what I use it for. The little brother to the RS 2 the RS EQ 300 is one solid sander. The RO 90 no complaints. The TS 75 cuts through the hardest beech wood without a hiccup. Maybe Festools are not as indestructable as some other brands, but for me the egronomics and the dust collection, the systainers and organisation are very attractive. MFT is a great aid for my portable mostly outdoor jobs.

Good luck with your other brands of choice.

 

[waho6o9]

Interesting and valid points Dovetail, may you have good fortune going forward.

 

[semenza]

New shop and making a move will not include Festool, how can it. it's a shame I loved this forum and the guys here, but with forum leaning toward not being able to talk about other tools and me not having anything nice to say about Festool  I just dont see me being here, I am not going to cause drama. The QC is out the window, reminds me of the Laguna fiasco of about 5 years ago, something its wrong.

I am done!

    We are trying and are planning to be trying a little harder to rejuvenate FOG. But times and things do change and forums like everything else evolve. We would very much like it to move up the scale rather than down.  As far as not being able to talk about other tool brands goes? Not sure where that is coming from other that the recent / current Mafell topic where it was suggested that more and better info could be found on the Mafell forum rather than on the Festool forum. I have always  felt that being able to talk about other tool brands on FOG was a hallmark considering that the FOG is owned and operated by Festool.

    [member=3373]Dovetail65[/member]    I do think that this is a rather dramatic post considering that you don't want to cause drama.  But I can certainly understand your extreme frustration and blowing off a little steam.

    Good luck with your new shop move. Would be great to see a shop tour or the like posted here.

Seth

 

[antss]

But guys..."it's part of a system".  and 'dust collection is phenomenal'  [eek]

Except, IT"S NOT anymore. 

Increasingly the tools are not part of the system and the dust collection is a pain to use for the cordless lineup because it can't turn on remotely - and- the new idea - the locking connector is a downgrade in performance.  Rick's Maxsys notwithstanding.  But that's not part of the native "system" from festool, nor does it work on half of the vacuums.  One of the biggest markets ( N. America) doesn't even have access to the entire lineup of tools and accessories.  Not stocked is one thing, but no special order is a bit ridiculous.

Been told  " we don't have capacity for keeping track of or storing all our SKU's"    Really? But you have room for 22 different sanders , plus two entirely different types of abrasive lines to fit all the different sanders plus the pads to accompany ?  How much space do all those sku's take on the server or in the warehouse ? And let's not forget there's new battery sku's for the cordless sanders.  Then you miraculously found some floor space to set up a production line for rails.  It'd would seem it's not a "space" problem.

This reminds me of many expanding or maturing businesses.  They are focused on growth to satisfy shareholders desire. That's hard to do long term with your core tools (that made your reputation) because you've already sold your natural demographic, and they last a long time.  Plus, competition catches up.  We have track saws a plenty now, most routers have dust collection, and pretty much all drill drivers perform better. 

Incremental upgrades will help the bottom line ( plug -it, new guide rail, better/bigger batteries) and developing great new products helps. But it's hard to consistently hit home runs with the likes of Domino.  Re-constituted vacuum clamps and multi-tools, lites that don't work with industry standard mounts or all the other tools' batteries help keep the system closed and force one to use FT accessories.  But the only real way is through acquisition.

 

[Cheese]

Rick's Maxsys notwithstanding.  But that's not part of the native "system" from festool, nor does it work on half of the vacuums. 

Interestingly enough, when Rick inquired if Festool was interested in pursuing the idea...Festool turned him down.  [eek]

Had Festool been a bit more clairvoyant with their "what needs to be in the future tool" thought process, they could have marketed this item along with new circuit boards for the MINI & MIDI, and charged a bazillion $ for the option and boards. That failure to envision says a lot. [sad]

 

[J0hn]

This thread reminded me - > whatever happened to eRock?  (he made some really good videos)

 

[Svar]

This thread reminded me - > whatever happened to eRock?  (he made some really good videos)

There is a bunch of Bosch L-boxes in his last videos.

 

[Slider613]

Sorry to hear your frustrations. I've had pretty decent luck with all my Festool intems, barring the Carvex, which is not bad, just not any better than a $150 Jigsaw.

Please see my signature for my Festool items.

 

[nickao]

I'm not seeing such issues. The OF 1010 rusting and loose? not in my experience. The Kapex I see issues but there's just too many that buy it and use it, so I'm not wholly convinced that it's the big lemon it's been made out to be. The carvex 420 does well for what I use it for. The little brother to the RS 2 the RS EQ 300 is one solid sander. The RO 90 no complaints. The TS 75 cuts through the hardest beech wood without a hiccup. Maybe Festools are not as indestructable as some other brands, but for me the egronomics and the dust collection, the systainers and organisation are very attractive. MFT is a great aid for my portable mostly outdoor jobs.

Good luck with your other brands of choice.

The rusting of the routers is a know issue,  I did not mention the TS 75. I did own one and sold it only becasue it was too large for me, but yes as far as I know the TS 75 is still rock solid, the TS 55 of course it lacks power everyone knows that.

If you search this forum on the tools I listed  all these issues are known. The RS2 I sold only becasue I think the Bosch performs much better, at a lesser cost, really it eats the RS2 for breakfast. I wil agree the RS2 itself was nice so I will say I did not sell that becasue of an  issue with it per se, just that I preferred another brand in that category. The rest of what I said stands.

I am really frustrated. I am lucky enough to have back up tools and year ago I bought 3 of every plug it for all the Festools just for these cases, but I feel for the guys that dont have the funds like me to have back up of backups and parts in stock for repair. The biggest aggravation is I had two hard pads for that ETC and the first one did the same thing and I wrote it off as a bad unit, so I already had used my backup never dreaming another would not last 90 days. I read about this on the forum and thought heck my pads last years, nope the pads are not lasting. The pad appears brand new it just wont hold the paper, the pad on the RO 150 holds the paper like glue, it has to be a bad batch of hard pads

 

[PreferrablyWood]

I'm not seeing such issues. The OF 1010 rusting and loose? not in my experience. The Kapex I see issues but there's just too many that buy it and use it, so I'm not wholly convinced that it's the big lemon it's been made out to be. The carvex 420 does well for what I use it for. The little brother to the RS 2 the RS EQ 300 is one solid sander. The RO 90 no complaints. The TS 75 cuts through the hardest beech wood without a hiccup. Maybe Festools are not as indestructable as some other brands, but for me the egronomics and the dust collection, the systainers and organisation are very attractive. MFT is a great aid for my portable mostly outdoor jobs.

Good luck with your other brands of choice.

The rusting of the routers is a know issue,  I did not mention the TS 75. I did own one and sold it only becasue it was too large for me, but yes as far as I know the TS 75 is still rock solid, the TS 55 of course it lacks power everyone knows that.

If you search this forum on the tools I listed  all these issues are known. The RS2 I sold only becasue I think the Bosch performs much better, at a lesser cost, really it eats the RS2 for breakfast. I wil agree the RS2 itself was nice so I will say I did not sell that becasue of an  issue with it per se, just that I preferred another brand in that category. The rest of what I said stands.

I am really frustrated. I am lucky enough to have back up tools and year ago I bought 3 of every plug it for all the Festools just for these cases, but I feel for the guys that dont have the funds like me to have back up of backups and parts in stock for repair. The biggest aggravation is I had two hard pads for that ETC and the first one did the same thing and I wrote it off as a bad unit, so I already had used my backup never dreaming another would not last 90 days. I read about this on the forum and thought heck my pads last years, nope the pads are not lasting. The pad appears brand new it just wont hold the paper, the pad on the RO 150 holds the paper like glue, it has to be a bad batch of hard pads

That frustration is something I understand. That's interesting about the RS2 versus the Bosch. I had considered at half sheet dimensioned sander, and thought the Metabo looked good but will Check the Bosch out. The hard pad on the metabo 80mm Eccentric sander i have  had the same issue and yes it's crazy having a tool you can't use because of the one small detail.
As to rusting routers, I store my tools at room temperature normal humidity so in other less optimal conditions I could see rust becoming an issue.

All the best to you and getting things optimised for your work

 

[antss]

Had Festool been a bit more clairvoyant with their "what needs to be in the future tool" thought process, they could have marketed this item along with new circuit boards for the MINI & MIDI, and charged a bazillion $ for the option and boards. That failure to envision says a lot. [sad]

Are you sure they didn't envision this and simply said " -W$(O%R^P)_ it" ?  Their cordless offerings were in the spitballing and design phases when Maxsys was conceived.  But, I guess it's just been decided that we NEED more sanders.  Even if we ourselves don't recognize it or want them.

Speaking to DT's quality comment - perhaps quality has in fact lessened. On purpose.  If my widget lasts for ever , I'm not likely to replace it.  That means no more revenue for ACME  when they can't convince me to buy an overpriced incompatible light, or wholesale replace my sandpaper inventory.

I'm in agreement, quality has gone downhill.  It's not to floodgate proportions like we've seen with Dewalt and PorterCable. 

Yet.

PWood - you don't see kapex issues because yours are 220volt models. 

 

[ScotF]

Frustrating when tools do not perform. My take - there are issues with most tool companies. It is just what it is - nothing is perfect. I had my Mafell jigsaw fail and had to get it replaced. I have had issues with a few Festool tools and I have had issues with Felder and Laguna in the past. It happens. I do not worry too much about issues as they are to be expected.

 

[live4ever]

Aren't many of the tools made in the Czech Republic now?  When did that switch occur?

All toolmakers try to cut costs by moving manufacturing to cheaper countries...I wonder if that has really hurt Festool's quality?  Hard to know without hard data, but the anecdotal evidence suggests that may be the case.

 

[Rollin22Petes]

I'm in the same boat with sanding pads they simply don't last. We started writing the date on them and we average about 45 -60 days before the paper is flying. We have 6 ets sanders in the shop so that's about $300 every six weeks for new pads totally unacceptable and at the same time our pads on other sanders (Dynabrade & Surfprep) seem to last forever at a fraction of the cost. What really pissed me off what that Festool said it was my fault I was using the sander wrong I've been a professional woodworker for the past 30 years I think I know sand.

 

[ddr90036]

As a newer Festool user without much prior experience I can understand what you're saying, but haven't had any of your experiences (that's not saying much).  In my opinion what is severely lacking, and the one thing that Festool needs to improve market share is accessibility to the system - meaning don't make people travel to only 3 locations to really learn how these things are used.  Don't get my wrong, my Festool instructor was phenomenal and continues to be a resource but I think that startup costs are already high they really need to improve on their online training access.

I have been an advocate for Festools for years. I first had to stop recommending the Kapex, then I had to stop recommending the Jig Saws, both the Carvex and the Triton. Finally I stopped recommending the MFT's and  my rusting loose, creaky OF 1400 and 1010 routers. Sold my RS 2, sold the linear sander, sold my TS 55 Track saw for a huge lack of power..

Now today I go to use my 6 month old RO 150, the dam plug it is fried, I have to hold it with 2 hands  to get it to work. Of course I have back ups, that's not the point. The point is my old RO lasted 8 years and the plug it never failed.

So I grab my ETc 150 to take over in a pinch, for the first time ever the dam sandpaper will NOT stay on the pad, this tool is 6 months old, the pad a brand new 90 day old hard pad. MY old pads last over 4 years!

I am on a deadline, this stuff need be done by Monday morning and now I have no Festool sander to get the job done other than my ETS 150 that is to light for the work.

So I have to pull out my backup Bosch, guess what the DEVS 1250 is just as good as the Rotex, I simply forget it has different feel, but it is every bit as powerful for less than half the cost. well Ill get used to it.

When I buy a tool I give a crap about the warranty if the tool doesn't last at least 3 years I am done with it. Look at my posts, I have been an advocate for over 8 years, longer really as I was on the forum when it was a yahoo group. I will never buy another Festool sander again.

That leaves the OF 2200, my only fear is my long a awaited upgrade I hope coming out in the next couple years I am not sure I can trust.

What the heck has happened to Festool over the last couple years, these tools are not lasting, they are not the same, something is amiss. From owning near every Festool sold in America I am now down to only recommending the OF 2200 router. I am so mad I am literally shaking.

New shop and making a move will not include Festool, how can it. it's a shame I loved this forum and the guys here, but with forum leaning toward not being able to talk about other tools and me not having anything nice to say about Festool  I just dont see me being here, I am not going to cause drama. The QC is out the window, reminds me of the Laguna fiasco of about 5 years ago, something its wrong.

I am done!