I am done

[glass1]

How I see it....  festool is following in the great footsteps of Hitachi. Hitachi used to make truly wonderful tools from the best nail guns, good basic routers, the best lunch box planer, and of course that little slider, built whole houses with it. Than Hitachi decided they could make more money selling to homeowners in the USA and became Lowes Brand. Hitachi may be on a bit of a comeback(maybe dewalt too). Festool has decided the best way to make money in the USA is to market to the sophisticated retired diy crowd who have money. They use this site and its resident experts to sell to this profitable crowd. Maybe it will backfire and festool will return to its higher quality days.  It's just my 2 cents.

 

[antss]

What really ticked me off what that Festool said it was my fault I was using the sander wrong

Yup, that is straight out of the playbook for any German company I've ever worked for or currently deal with.  Having the pads wear out would fit into the grand conspiracy of having tools wear out faster so you'll by more or them and or maybe get so frustrated that you try the new product (mesh abrasives) and their new pads.  Same as the new vac connector.  But at least they give us the first hit for no money up front.

Glass - you can be pretty sure that Hitachi's quality will soon slide down. And by extension Metabo's because of the KKR acquisition. They have no earthly idea about tool customers' wants and needs.  But, they are masters at squeezing equity and profit out of businesses. That's not really practical while trying to make the very best widget and paying off the debt for the acquisition.

Probably time to search for the "next" small to medium , quality power tool maker if you're not comfortable or satisfied with the current evolution.  I can pretty much guarantee Festool isn't going back to the good ol days.

Who knows, maybe we"ll even see them in the BORGs before the end of the decade.  [unsure]

 

[J0hn]

I will never forget the time that Festool denied a warranty repair because a guy was using a non Festool blade in his Festool jigsaw and hit a hidden screw while he was making a cut.  Trashed the jigsaw - cost more to repair than what it was worth

 

[semenza]

I will never forget the time that Festool denied a warranty repair because a guy was using a non Festool blade in his Festool jigsaw and hit a hidden screw while he was making a cut.  Trashed the jigsaw - cost more to repair than what it was worth

I remember that too. Festool blade or not I am not so sure that running into a screw (most are hardened) with a wood cutting blade is Festool's build fault.

Seth

 

[Stephen B]

[size=8pt]

Aren't many of the tools made in the Czech Republic now?  When did that switch occur?

[size=13pt]
Many tools have been made by Festool under the ProTool label in Poland and the Czech Republic since forever. Around three years ago the ProTool range became Festool branded. Examples include the Rail Chain Saw, the DSC Cutting System, QuadDrills and the PDC drill.

 

[Brice Burrell]

I will never forget the time that Festool denied a warranty repair because a guy was using a non Festool blade in his Festool jigsaw and hit a hidden screw while he was making a cut.  Trashed the jigsaw - cost more to repair than what it was worth

I'm pretty sure it was stated that the non-Festool blade was not the reason that the warranty repair was denied.

 

[J0hn]

I will never forget the time that Festool denied a warranty repair because a guy was using a non Festool blade in his Festool jigsaw and hit a hidden screw while he was making a cut.  Trashed the jigsaw - cost more to repair than what it was worth

I'm pretty sure it was stated that the non-Festool blade was not the reason that the warranty repair was denied.

I am pretty sure that you are wrong - although it is hard to believe that a 'Premium' tool manufacturer would deny a warranty claim under those circumstances, isn't it?
[attachimg=1]

 

[Holmz]

...  In my opinion what is severely lacking, and the one thing that Festool needs to improve market share is accessibility to the system - meaning don't make people travel to only 3 locations to really learn how these things are used.  Don't get my wrong, my Festool instructor was phenomenal and continues to be a resource but I think that startup costs are already high they really need to improve on their online training access.
...

Increasing the market share is a problem if one wants to increase sales, however the topic of this thread is the dismal quality, and not in helping the company sell increasing numbers of second rate tools.

Festool is marketed as Uber tools, which make be true in some cases like the Kapex.
But the perception is that the quality is in free fall.

I suppose driving less distance to get fleeced is better for the environment. So there is an upside.

 

[Holmz]

I'm not seeing such issues. The OF 1010 rusting and loose? not in my experience. The Kapex I see issues but there's just too many that buy it and use it, so I'm not wholly convinced that it's the big lemon it's been made out to be. The carvex 420 does well for what I use it for. The little brother to the RS 2 the RS EQ 300 is one solid sander. The RO 90 no complaints. The TS 75 cuts through the hardest beech wood without a hiccup. Maybe Festools are not as indestructable as some other brands, but for me the egronomics and the dust collection, the systainers and organisation are very attractive. MFT is a great aid for my portable mostly outdoor jobs.

Good luck with your other brands of choice.

There are differences in voltage betten North America and Scandinavia ... The rest of the world

 

[semenza]

I suppose driving less distance to get fleeced is better for the environment. So there is an upside.

Fleeced? Fleeced in what way?

  You mean  choosing   to attend a training class that you have to pay for? And in all probability is a good price for a training class?  No one is suckering anyone to make that choice. The free option is to go online for information and how to. Places like ummm,  FOG. Provided for all to read and ask questions  by Festool at no charge.

Seth

 

[antss]

But the perception is that the quality is in free fall.

I'm not sure that's quite accurate. 

Isn't it more like the quality is slipping at this point?  That's a far cry from abandon ship.

 

[nickao]

New shop and making a move will not include Festool, how can it. it's a shame I loved this forum and the guys here, but with forum leaning toward not being able to talk about other tools and me not having anything nice to say about Festool  I just dont see me being here, I am not going to cause drama. The QC is out the window, reminds me of the Laguna fiasco of about 5 years ago, something its wrong.

I am done!

    We are trying and are planning to be trying a little harder to rejuvenate FOG. But times and things do change and forums like everything else evolve. We would very much like it to move up the scale rather than down.  As far as not being able to talk about other tool brands goes? Not sure where that is coming from other that the recent / current Mafell topic where it was suggested that more and better info could be found on the Mafell forum rather than on the Festool forum. I have always  felt that being able to talk about other tool brands on FOG was a hallmark considering that the FOG is owned and operated by Festool.

    [member=3373]Dovetail65[/member]    I do think that this is a rather dramatic post considering that you don't want to cause drama.  But I can certainly understand your extreme frustration and blowing off a little steam.

    Good luck with your new shop move. Would be great to see a shop tour or the like posted here.

Seth

Wait a second, I said my piece, one post and a follow up or two. Was I to say nothing at all? So it's drama to post  my one experience?

Your statement:

"I do think that this is a rather dramatic post considering that you don't want to cause drama."

The drama I am referring to is if I became vindictive telling everyone who will listen that there are issues with these sanders, posting  25-100 posts here on out dissing the tool. Some here have literally posted 100 times dissing the Kapex and the motor at every turn making that topic into a fiasco over several months. That is the drama I am not going to get in to. I actually believe you knew that already. Had you not made the above statement I would not even be back in this thread.

Near 5000 posts advocating Festool with ONE THREAD EVER STARTED STARTING TOOL DISSATISFACTION IN 8 YEARS. The only thing from a Festool perspective I have ever done negative is simply state a facts and comparisons that some some Fetools might not be the right choice, today was the first time I ever actually dissed a tool in a thread topic and it was after giving the benefit of the doubt over a period of months.

If I am not a guy Festool would want on the forum I have no idea who would be. I think to myself am I crazy, I don't get paid, what am I doing advocating for a tool company, I must be nuts. I guess the kool aid wore off or something because reading your one sentence for some weird reason hurt me for a second.. And that's weird to me.

 

[Holmz]

But the perception is that the quality is in free fall.

I'm not sure that's quite accurate. 

Isn't it more like the quality is slipping at this point?  That's a far cry from abandon ship.

Maybe you're right... I am thinking the Kapex motor issues, Carvex woes, various issues with plugIt connectors, the ProV promotion having lots of returns, and the posts about how the repair department cannot be reached without invocation of a Festool employee.

Maybe it is not "The perception", but it is what I am reading from the various rants and complaints. Granted that is likely from a small set of people, but it is enough to cause my eyebrow to raise.

Festool advertises that they have some of the highest quality tools. The onus to live up to that expectation, or protect that expectation, needs Q&A/QC to back up the marketing... Or the general perception may readjust itself.

 

[brentseay]

Hey guys/gals, first post. I've been dreaming of these tools and couldn't justify the cost. Hilton and Amazon worked out a deal to use your hhonors to shop and made my dreams come true. Used my stash of hhonors points to purchase the domino 500, systainer full of dominos and cutters, ct26 dust collector, and the ets ec 125 brushless sander.

I joined FOG today finally as a real festool owner and the first post I read is this one from a well respected FOG member and I'm thinking I should have taken a 3 week vacation with these points instead.

Am I good to go?

From my perspective, I'm really enjoying the domino. It is the only way I have currently to join a 45 degree mitered table apron to a 90 degree square table leg. The perfect joint in my mind would be to make the end of the mitered apron a dovetail and cut a dovetail slot into the square table leg on a 45 degree angle. However, I don't have a tilting router table. I did my first mitered apron to square table leg today with three 4x20 dominos and it's perfect. I feel like I could make some quality furniture finally.

Looking forward to seeing what else I can make.

Brent

 

[James Biddle]

I fully understand the OP's position.  He, like I, have been big Festool supporters over the last number of years.  I own 10 power tools, 4 cordless, 2 vacs, and I've considered myself a big Festool fan.  But, the relationship seems to be more one sided these days.

I sold my Kapex far cheaper than the 'Festool keeps its prices' mantra.

I sold my MFS because not only did I not use it, but Festool stopped selling it.

I sold my first two track saws because I not use them, and that's a lot of cash sitting in the too crib.

I have two vacs that have been absolute beasts, but why did they cheap out on the quality of the MIDI hose?

I can't argue with the quality of my OF1400 router...love it.

My Domino has more than paid for itself, but I wish the QC extended to sending the tool with everything aligned...I cur one slot small and the matching one large and ignore the alignment issue.

Sanders, where do I start?

My original Festool purchase was a lightly used ETS 150/3. I,be had to send it in once for repair, but it's also been a tool beast.  I bought the EC 150 replacement and although it has some nice features, it does not give me that same 'this is a great tool' feeling as the original.

Then I bought an RS2.  Jumpy for the first bunch of hours then it smoothed out.  Hate that the cord is attached an I can't use my hose/cord setup.  In what way is this part of a system?

Picked up a RO 90 and 150.  Haven't used the 150 much, but the 90 has been a solid performer on sanding face frames, albeit really fatiguing keeping it flat.

Bought the RTS 400 sander in hopes it will help me sand face frames and ease my joints/muscles...too early too tell.

I bought the vac-sys to help holding parts for sanding and Dominos.  Early returns are positive for parts that fit the modules, not so much on those that don"t.

Oh, I have the small cordless saw to help me at remote sits, but have not he'd occasion to test it yet.

I have the CXS and TI-18 drills and find them to be a great combo, love the battery life...own and find the Centronics crap and a money grab.  If you sell and market a tool for the US, sell the damn bits too.

Trion, meh. Why did you make a tool where you can't see the cut line.

Stop the 'system' crap.  You make cordless tools that have no more DC than Black and Decker, make tools that the only 'system' inference is that it hooks to your vacs, and you make tools that have no integration capability. I could go on.

You have to provide tools that last forever, without repair, to justify your prices in today's market, where other companies like Mafell are eating your lunch on craftsmanship and innovation and the lower end companies are competing head to head. 

I've been a Festool fanboy for years, but the bloom seems to be fading.  I don't want to hear about new cordless tools that replace my existing tools, I want to hear about the latest COOL tools you were known for introducing.

 

[tjbnwi]

Hey guys/gals, first post. I've been dreaming of these tools and couldn't justify the cost. Hilton and Amazon worked out a deal to use your hhonors to shop and made my dreams come true. Used my stash of hhonors points to purchase the domino 500, systainer full of dominos and cutters, ct26 dust collector, and the ets ec 125 brushless sander.

I joined FOG today finally as a real festool owner and the first post I read is this one from a well respected FOG member and I'm thinking I should have taken a 3 week vacation with these points instead.

Am I good to go?

From my perspective, I'm really enjoying the domino. It is the only way I have currently to join a 45 degree mitered table apron to a 90 degree square table leg. The perfect joint in my mind would be to make the end of the mitered apron a dovetail and cut a dovetail slot into the square table leg on a 45 degree angle. However, I don't have a tilting router table. I did my first mitered apron to square table leg today with three 4x20 dominos and it's perfect. I feel like I could make some quality furniture finally.

Looking forward to seeing what else I can make.

Brent

The Domino is a tool you will never regret owning. It is a one of a kind and does what it does extremely well. For the record I have 2-500's and a 700. I'd give up one of my TS's before I'd ever give up a Domino.

Tom

 

[sancho57]

As far as training goes, Ive been to about 3-4 training classes loved them. FT is available to give tech advice as to how to use their tools to do a certain operation. There is festool TV, there is the FOG, most members are really helpful.
The festool dealers who asre worth a salt have people who are trained in and very good at using festools.

The dealers have the festool rep periodically has reps come out to their businesses and demo the tools and when I show up answered all my questions and helped me with any issues Ive had.

The info is available.

 

[semenza]

New shop and making a move will not include Festool, how can it. it's a shame I loved this forum and the guys here, but with forum leaning toward not being able to talk about other tools and me not having anything nice to say about Festool  I just dont see me being here, I am not going to cause drama. The QC is out the window, reminds me of the Laguna fiasco of about 5 years ago, something its wrong.

I am done!

    We are trying and are planning to be trying a little harder to rejuvenate FOG. But times and things do change and forums like everything else evolve. We would very much like it to move up the scale rather than down.  As far as not being able to talk about other tool brands goes? Not sure where that is coming from other that the recent / current Mafell topic where it was suggested that more and better info could be found on the Mafell forum rather than on the Festool forum. I have always  felt that being able to talk about other tool brands on FOG was a hallmark considering that the FOG is owned and operated by Festool.

    [member=3373]Dovetail65[/member]    I do think that this is a rather dramatic post considering that you don't want to cause drama.  But I can certainly understand your extreme frustration and blowing off a little steam.

    Good luck with your new shop move. Would be great to see a shop tour or the like posted here.

Seth

Wait a second, I said my piece, one post and a follow up or two. Was I to say nothing at all? So it's drama to post  my one experience?

Your statement:

"I do think that this is a rather dramatic post considering that you don't want to cause drama."

The drama I am referring to is if I became vindictive telling everyone who will listen that there are issues with these sanders, posting  25-100 posts here on out dissing the tool. Some here have literally posted 100 times dissing the Kapex and the motor at every turn making that topic into a fiasco over several months. That is the drama I am not going to get in to. I actually believe you knew that already. Had you not made the above statement I would not even be back in this thread.

Near 5000 posts advocating Festool with ONE THREAD EVER STARTED STARTING TOOL DISSATISFACTION IN 8 YEARS. The only thing from a Festool perspective I have ever done negative is simply state a facts and comparisons that some some Fetools might not be the right choice, today was the first time I ever actually dissed a tool in a thread topic and it was after giving the benefit of the doubt over a period of months.

If I am not a guy Festool would want on the forum I have no idea who would be. I think to myself am I crazy, I don't get paid, what am I doing advocating for a tool company, I must be nuts. I guess the kool aid wore off or something because reading your one sentence for some weird reason hurt me for a second.. And that's weird to me.

    Well, exactly,(the bold above). The topic post you made, coming from a forum supporting member with a history of saying both good and bad with first hand experience about Festool products, with the title "I am done"?  With  a listing of tool problems, and a few comments about the forum direction, etc. Followed by (paraphrasing) I am quitting FOG? (All fine to state by the way, no problem in that regard).

    Yeah, it is a pretty big change up topic coming from you. And a bit surprising in it's sudden abruptness. No problem with you starting the topic or saying what you have said. But there is a lot there that is bound to draw a pretty big reaction and possibly dramatic response.  I was not meaning to suggest that you were going to purposely cause drama going forward. I was just pointing out that the original topic starting post, due to the above, was in and of itself dramatic. Not necessarily in a bad way or a good way. But it just seemed to be dramatic and that it (the original post) may cause some drama.

  Also it was not intended to hurt you. I am sorry that you took it that way if even for a second.

Seth
 

 

[tjbnwi]

[member=560]James Biddle[/member],

Regarding the Vac-Sys and parts size. Use a piece large enough to cover the "cup", with a hole drilled just off center, place this on the cup, place the smaller piece over the hole. You may have to crib up the smaller piece to use the Domino, but you'll figure that out.

Trion/Carxex---I use the jigsaw upside down 99.9% of the time, no problem seeing the cut line.

Tom

 

[Holmz]

Hey guys/gals, first post. I've been dreaming of these tools and couldn't justify the cost. Hilton and Amazon worked out a deal to use your hhonors to shop and made my dreams come true. Used my stash of hhonors points to purchase the domino 500, systainer full of dominos and cutters, ct26 dust collector, and the ets ec 125 brushless sander.

I joined FOG today finally as a real festool owner and the first post I read is this one from a well respected FOG member and I'm thinking I should have taken a 3 week vacation with these points instead.

Am I good to go?

From my perspective, I'm really enjoying the domino. It is the only way I have currently to join a 45 degree mitered table apron to a 90 degree square table leg. The perfect joint in my mind would be to make the end of the mitered apron a dovetail and cut a dovetail slot into the square table leg on a 45 degree angle. However, I don't have a tilting router table. I did my first mitered apron to square table leg today with three 4x20 dominos and it's perfect. I feel like I could make some quality furniture finally.

Looking forward to seeing what else I can make.

Brent

Use it and be happy. (I have a 700)

Whether it is better than a Lamello Zeta or DD40 depends on what you are making.
(I also have a Zeta).

Same deal with sanders... (Many good manufacturers available)