I got Blue, not Green

[JCLP]

Well the adventure continued this morning with no success. Following what I was able to do a few days ago, the HVLP spray gods have decided to mess me up again. As it is hard to beat a higher power, I decided to put HVLP aside and try airless. So I took out my Graco TrueCoat Pro II handheld sprayer and give a try. Using a 311 tip and about 1200psi I sprayed a couple panels and they looked great, just like a wet lake, when they were wet but after a few hours of drying all of a sudden lumps, pin holes appeared. I have no idea what I did wrong.

So after a few hours of contemplating I have decided to hang up the sprayers and farm the work out to someone else. I can't remember the last time, if any, I gave up but I have to listen to the sprayer gods that I am not meant to spray and no matter I try they will not let me succeed.

Thanks everyone for their assistant over the last year or so.

Cheers,
JC

 

[wptski]

Well the adventure continued this morning with no success. Following what I was able to do a few days ago, the HVLP spray gods have decided to mess me up again. As it is hard to beat a higher power, I decided to put HVLP aside and try airless. So I took out my Graco TrueCoat Pro II handheld sprayer and give a try. Using a 311 tip and about 1200psi I sprayed a couple panels and they looked great, just like a wet lake, when they were wet but after a few hours of drying all of a sudden lumps, pin holes appeared. I have no idea what I did wrong.

So after a few hours of contemplating I have decided to hang up the sprayers and farm the work out to someone else. I can't remember the last time, if any, I gave up but I have to listen to the sprayer gods that I am not meant to spray and no matter I try they will not let me succeed.

Thanks everyone for their assistant over the last year or so.

Cheers,
JC

So sad!  :'(

 

[tjbnwi]

Don't give up. Take a break and ease back into it.

Tom

 

[Swordstriper]

Have you considered changing paints. Advance is a very interesting paint to spray as are most waterborne alkyds. I have produced beautiful finishes with them and then had similar troubles as you are having. Just for the fun of it buy a quart of the Advance primer, thin it to 25 seconds with the viscosity cup that Fuji provides. Spray it on at 3-4 mils wet and let it dry the recommended 6-8 at 25 degrees Celsius or 72 degrees Fahrenheit which ever you prefer. Then thin your Advance topcoat with water to the same 25 seconds and see what happens. Try to set your gun to apply 3-4 mild wet keeping the nozzle 3-4 inches from the surface being careful to maintain a 50% overlap. You will move faster and see what happens.

 

[denovo]

I find when I'm in a simialr situation the best thing to do is to take a break and do something completely different and easy for awhile.  After a few days, weeks, or months go back and try again when you don't have any pressing deadlines.

 

[JCLP]

Well, after a lot of reading and research on straining Waterborne paint I found this little bit of info.

"The issue with waterborne chemistry and micron size pertains to how water resins cure. They dry by coalescing together to form a film, unlike solvent resins which dry by evaporation of the solvent into the air. A key difference is that a clotted hunk of solvent resin will re-dissolve in the presence of more solvent. A dried particle of waterborne resin that has clotted into a hunk won’t re-dissolve. As a result, several paint brands call for the smallest hole size (125 microns) to ensure that the final paint finish is perfectly smooth."

I found that when I was spraying BM Advance that I was getting some fine coffee grain bits that had not dissolved on the finished surface. So I called Gerson, who make paint strainers, and explained to them my problem and they informed me that they recommend 125 or 150 micron strainers for Waterborne. Now I was a little bit skepticle about this so I asked them if it was the same for house paint like BM Advance and SW ProClassic and they yes.

They sent me some samples for me to try.
So I thinned Advance, tinted Cloud White, with 10% water, used a 1.3mm needle and cap, my Q5 and strained it with a 125micron strainer, and guess what, no dried bits. I use to see these right away as soon as the paint touched the surface. Now the real test will be in a couple of hours when the paint levels and dries a bit.
Stayed tuned.

JC

 

[wptski]

Funny, I asked Roger Phelps of HVLPSALES what the micron size of the strainers he sells and he couldn't even tell me!  Many places just state fine or coarse.  I did get some elsewhere, IIRC, there were three different options.  I'd have to look what I got, seems like it was at least two flavors.

Going to the 3M PPS system could solve this as well, they have 200 micron and 125 micron strainer lids.

 

[JCLP]

Funny, I asked Roger Phelps of HVLPSALES what the micron size of the strainers he sells and he couldn't even tell me!  Many places just state fine or coarse.  I did get some elsewhere, IIRC, there were three different options.  I'd have to look what I got, seems like it was at least two flavors.

Going to the 3M PPS system could solve this as well, they have 200 micron and 125 micron strainer lids.

I haven't yet decided if I will go to the PPS system or not. When gerson offered to send me a few samples of each strainer, I was expecting and envelope in the mail. Instead, they sent me 200 of the 125micron and 200 of the 150micron and 2 dispensing units, one for each filter size. I have enough filters to last me a life time.

I wasn't expecting that from them at all.
Cheers,
JC

 

[wptski]

I haven't yet decided if I will go to the PPS system or not. When gerson offered to send me a few samples of each strainer, I was expecting and envelope in the mail. Instead, they sent me 200 of the 125micron and 200 of the 150micron and 2 dispensing units, one for each filter size. I have enough filters to last me a life time.

I wasn't expecting that from them at all.
Cheers,
JC

At Gerson they list a strainer as 1000 micron(for latex paint) but no others listed like this!  Did they mention this to you?

Yeah, you got a deal there.

 

[JCLP]

I saw that. Latex and Waterborne are two different animals.

Cheers,

 

[tjbnwi]

Could be why I do not experience the problems you did. I've used the PPS system since day one. It's got to the point where I'll grab either lid. I used to be real selective, didn't notice a difference.

I also prestrain my finishes, I don't strain stain.

Tom

 

[wptski]

I saw that. Latex and Waterborne are two different animals.

Cheers,

Latex is water based but try to find anything that states "for sure" that there is a difference between water based and waterborne.  Might be play on words or like a paint and primer in one which from what I've read is impossible.

 

[tjbnwi]

Water based reconstitutes when water is applied, think finger paints, waterbournes will not reconstitute when water is applied. (This is how I look at them)

Tom

 

[wptski]

Water based reconstitutes when water is applied, think finger paints, waterbournes will not reconstitute when water is applied. (This is how I look at them)

Tom

Don't really know but here's one of several that have stated the same thing.

 

[tjbnwi]

Water based reconstitutes when water is applied, think finger paints, waterbournes will not reconstitute when water is applied. (This is how I look at them)

Tom

Don't really know but here's one of several that have stated the same thing.

The meanings of the words help clear this up (in my opinion)

Waterbased-water is the main ingredient

Waterbourne-transmitted in water

The [waterbourne] finishes we use, the ingredients that make up the product are transmitted in water, once the water evaporates the product cannot be reconstituted with water.

Tom

 

[JCLP]

Water based reconstitutes when water is applied, think finger paints, waterbournes will not reconstitute when water is applied. (This is how I look at them)

Tom

Don't really know but here's one of several that have stated the same thing.

The meanings of the words help clear this up (in my opinion)

Waterbased-water is the main ingredient

Waterbourne-transmitted in water

The [waterbourne] finishes we use, the ingredients that make up the product are transmitted in water, once the water evaporates the product cannot be reconstituted with water.

Tom

Thanks Tom.

Still having issues spraying Advance. Tim offered me his PPS system to try out. That is the only thing different, other then your experience, between us. This is so frustrating.

JC

 

[Scott B.]

Hang in there. Once you have served your penance to the spray gods for whatever you did wrong in the past, things will become a lot more fun!

We all go through this stuff.

 

[wptski]

The meanings of the words help clear this up (in my opinion)

Waterbased-water is the main ingredient

Waterbourne-transmitted in water

The [waterbourne] finishes we use, the ingredients that make up the product are transmitted in water, once the water evaporates the product cannot be reconstituted with water.

Tom

water-base paint - paint in which water is used as the vehicle

That sounds the same to me.

 

[tjbnwi]

The water based paints are waterborne, sometimes nomenclature dictates we define things with well held colloquialisms.

Tom

 

[JCLP]

So I setup a 2 quart pressure pot being pressured with my Rolair JC10 to get the paint to the tip and I'm using all of the air from the Q5 to atomize the paint. Using a 1.3mil needle and cap. I will thin paint by 10% to prolonge open time.

We'll see what happens. Stay tuned.

JC