I need expert advice for small a project.

[MichaelW2014]

Hello everyone. I am a festool owner, I recently bought a ct midi and a router 1010. but my question today is regarding making a french cleat out of part of a beam of wood. I understand that french cleats can be ripped on a table saw or track saw, or can be cut out using a router table; they can also be made using the carvex 420. but what i am trying to do is cut a french cleat slot out of Part of a piece of wood, not the entire length. As of now, the best way i can think of doing this is with a hand saw and the carvex. I would start by making a hole for the carvex blade to start at, then i would carvex my way to each end of the length that i need to be removed. I have attached an image of a beam just to help us get on the same page. I want to make the cleanest cuts possible. I will buy the tools that allow me to best achieve this goal, withing reason and so long as they are feasible given the size limitations of my small indoor wood-shop. Please let me know what is best. thanks

 

[MichaelW2014]

can you acheive great results with a chisel? what kind of chisel? a wood carving chisel perhaps? maybe a small plane to clean it up in the end?

 

[wow]

I agree with jmb. If it was longer I'd use the TS with stops as you could get a perfect 45 degree cut, then finish it by hand. But if the area you want to bevel is only 4-5" long as it appears in your picture, the TS would be of limited use.

If you have a bunch of them to make I might also consider building a router sled and using it with trim router and a straight cutting bit angled to 45 degrees. This would allow you a nice clean cleat with repeatability and only a little detritus (I learned a new word!) left to clean out of the corners.

 

[wow]

If you don't want to make a sled (or want some idea what I'm talking about) Betterly's offers one for sale:

[attachthumb=#]

http://www.betterleytools.com/page_8a.htm

 

[MichaelW2014]

I agree with jmb. If it was longer I'd use the TS with stops as you could get a perfect 45 degree cut, then finish it by hand. But if the area you want to bevel is only 4-5" long as it appears in your picture, the TS would be of limited use.

If you have a bunch of them to make I might also consider building a router sled and using it with trim router and a straight cutting bit angled to 45 degrees. This would allow you a nice clean cleat with repeatability and only a little detritus (I learned a new word!) left to clean out of the corners.

i will have to do this type of this twice per month, for the next ten or twenty years. maybe a router sled would be best. have you tried to do this before? does festool make an angles sled?

 

[MichaelW2014]

can you acheive great results with a chisel? what kind of chisel? a wood carving chisel perhaps? maybe a small plane to clean it up in the end?

Yeah you can.   I would stick a few saw cuts just stopping short from your lines so you have the angle.

Then using a nice sharp chisel tap along your lines to stop break out.  

I would then clamp the timber down to your bench (onto wood). So you can chisel down and away from you.  

Get the bulk away which would take seconds.   Then using two hands just slice the timber off to your pencil marks.  

i see what you mean, just like you would do with a lap joint, make one cut per 1/8" all the way down the length of the area to be taken out. then use a chisel and knock out the bits. then clean it with a chisel. is this right?

 

[Walk On Wood]

A table saw sled with a simple jig to hold the board at 45 degrees would work as well.  You could do a few passes and then chisel the remaining, or just do enough passes to remove all of the material.

 

[MichaelW2014]

A table saw sled with a simple jig to hold the board at 45 degrees would work as well.  You could do a few passes and then chisel the remaining, or just do enough passes to remove all of the material.

yeah, i see what you mean, just like you would do with a miter saw for a lap joint. i think i would go this route. i will use my "nobex 180" hand miter saw for this. It has built in notches that act as jigs in this case to tilt a piece of wood at 45degrees to make this cut. It will be time consuming but accurate.

But I don't have the faintest clue about chisels. I have a few big clumsy looking things I bought at sears a long time ago. I can't imagine getting any kind of good result from using these. Also, it seems like i will need a tiny plane to finish this job. Maybe a chisel plane will also work here?

 

[bkharman]

A table saw sled with a simple jig to hold the board at 45 degrees would work as well.  You could do a few passes and then chisel the remaining, or just do enough passes to remove all of the material.

I was going to say something similar.  Make a jig to hold the woodwork in place for you to make passes with a straight cut router bit.  essentially planing the 45 deg. area out.  Very similar to a hinge jig.  If you have to do it that many times, spend the time to make the jig nice and repeatable and be done with it.  If you have a table saw, you can set it up that way as well.

Bryan

 

[MichaelW2014]

that sounds good, but i have never even seen a router sled let alone a jig like you are describing. i have only ever used a router to trim edges on panels. this is a very basic task, to say the least. i guess i can start researching this and try to figure it out.

the other method, i can see how to do it easily. it would probably take 30 min to an hour or so to do one 4-5" section. that's reasonable. of course a jig like you are suggesting would require just a few minutes of work.

 

[MichaelW2014]

thank you all for the advice.

 

[bkharman]

that sounds good, but i have never even seen a router sled let alone a jig like you are describing. i have only ever used a router to trim edges on panels. this is a very basic task, to say the least. i guess i can start researching this and try to figure it out.

the other method, i can see how to do it easily. it would probably take 30 min to an hour or so to do one 4-5" section. that's reasonable. of course a jig like you are suggesting would require just a few minutes of work.

Is the stock you are routing out always going to be the same dimensions? i.e. - 2x4 like in the pic??

If so, you can easily build a jig. I can draw something up for you if you like but is this what you are trying to accomplish?

 

[bkharman]

This look...

 

[MichaelW2014]

This look...

sorry for the miscommunication, i use bars that are 1"x1.25". i just didn't have any of the correct size bars to use for communicating my problem in this thread.
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it just dawned on me, why not just use a router table with a 45degree angle bit? it would leave a curved part at the ends of the cut, and this would make it far less accurate than the straight bit option, but the cuts would be clean and easy to make.

 

[GarryMartin]

Am I the only one who doesn't understand why this could be called a "French cleat"?

It sounds like you are going to be making quite a few over a number of years, so a simple jig that puts the stock at 45degress, with the OF1400 and a straight bit running across a flat platform with guides either side on the top where the piece to be removed is exposed would be more than sufficient and very repeatable, whilst taking only a small space in your shop.

I'm rubbish with Sketchup, but hopefully you'll get the idea!

 

[bkharman]

Am I the only one who doesn't understand why this could be called a "French cleat"?

It sounds like you are going to be making quite a few over a number of years, so a simple jig that puts the stock at 45degress, with the OF1400 and a straight bit running across a flat platform with guides either side on the top where the piece to be removed is exposed would be more than sufficient and very repeatable, whilst taking only a small space in your shop.

I'm rubbish with Sketchup, but hopefully you'll get the idea!

I agree... That is why i made the sketch up to hopefully confirm that we are wrong.  I am hoping the OP jumps in and draws us up what he needs!

 

[bkharman]

Is this a more accurate depiction? 

Think of it as a cutaway. I feel this might be where you were headed...

 

[bkharman]

I doubt that's what the OP wants to achieve.  The first sketch up is correct.

If it is this he wanted to achieve then good luck with that be a pain in the arse.

Agreed that it would be a PITA... but I am thinking he said he has said he needed it ala French Cleat style and the first sketch up i did was the opposite.  But then he mentioned that he could use a 45 deg chamfer bit to route it out with curved/beveled starts and stops.  The 1x1.25" blocks also confused me... hope we get it sorted out as I was thinking in my last post that he would have triangular blocks attached to what he wants to hand and this lumber on the wall accepting the cleat.

we shall see...
[wink]

 

[MichaelW2014]

I'm not too good with imagining how things should look. it's true that my original photo is rubbish. it barely makes sense and is confusing to even myself. I will try again to describe what I am trying to do. As I do not have any lumber here with me currently, I will have to try to explain it with words.
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In a french cleat system there are two parts. one that is point down and the second that is point up.
The one that is point up is screwed into the wall. let's say this is 4" long made out of a bar that was originally 4"x1"x1.25". this one is easily made on a table saw.
The second half of this french cleat I want to make is a groove cut out of the middle of a bar that is 30"x1"x1.25". So 5" of the middle of this bar will have a 45 degree groove cut out of it to engage with the 4" cleat that is on the wall. Making this part of the cleat system is difficult because the groove is in the middle of the bar, not along the entire bar and it is not starting at either end of the bar.
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i have a nobex miter saw, this is a hand saw, not electric. i have a Festool router 1010. If i could afford the festool router table I would buy it and attach a 45 degree angle router bit to make this tricky groove that has to be in the middle of a bar of wood. if i knew that the dust collection would be excellent with another router table, i would hook up my festool to another cheaper table, which would also have to be respectfully precise.
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note: sometimes the cleats i need to make are going to be 4" long and sometimes they might be 10". it might vary nearly every time i make it.
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now i am starting to think that the best way for me to accomplish this task is to do as suggested with sawing cuts into the wood along the lenght of the area where the cut is to be made into the bar. then knock out the bits. and then flatten smooth the surface. i am starting to think that a flat rasp will do the best job of flattening. plus this is a perfect opportunity to buy the two auriou flat rasps that i have admired for quite some time.
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it's true that i am chisel shy. i think chisels require more skill than most tools, a skill i don't have.

 

[MichaelW2014]

i hope what i said makes sense. i've never done it nor seen it before.