I want to buy either Festool Kapex or new Bosch dual-bevel glide, Opinions ?

I've got the Bosch axial.  Hate to say it but my dealers kapex has been broken twice during demos!  I wanted to try it out on two different occasions and it was broke at different times months apart.  That sacred me a  bit when was on the fence between the two saws.  Ive seen threads saying the kapex has broken from a chunk of wood flying up and breaking a bearing. It should be noted if the kapex breaks you will find no better company than festool to fix your saw free of charge if it ever breaks.   My axial has taken three of the hardest falls and tumbles i could ever imagine with the saw surviving unhurt.  The falls all made me cringe and it still works and cuts perfectly.  The bosch is tough as heck and i can guarantee that now.  15" of travel, and I have used every inch of that and I love it.  Its glide system is just davine, I recommend you try it.  The bevel mechanism is great too, I've been doing interior trim and the bevel being at the front is a great innovation. Another thing I like is  that with the flip of a thumb you can disengage the miter detents while swinging the saw left to right.  This feature should be on every saw, cause it is so annoying when the saw wants to slide into the detent when you are trying to make a cut slightly to either side.  I've used the saw a ton and couldn't be happier.  It is heavy, if you're a wimp you may want another saw, but I move it around no problem, granted I'm 31 years old and no wimp.  It also can only take one laser, kapex has two, not a real big deal but that is something I wish it had.  Being able to bring the work in from the left and the right with two lasers is something the kapex owns as a plus.  Also the dust collection is not great, I'm sure the kapex is much better.  

I absolutely love my axial glide and know I made the right decision, but honestly you have to weigh what is most important for you.  I took many months deciding which saw to get, and after the abuse my Bosch has taken it was with out a doubt the right pic for me.  I had a broken lever on the fence that broke during shipping, a wonderful woman for the Bosch customer service sent me a new lever free of charge immediately no questions asked.  I was impressed, and she was great to talk with. I think the festool saw must be treated like a delicate tool.  So if you get the kapex, just be careful with it, the Bosch can literally be tossed down stairs, I've seen mine do it thanks to my dopey helper.
 
Jaybolishes said:
I've got the Bosch axial.  Hate to say it but my dealers kapex has been broken twice during demos!  I wanted to try it out on two different occasions and it was broke at different times months apart.  That sacred me a  bit when was on the fence between the two saws.  Ive seen threads saying the kapex has broken from a chunk of wood flying up and breaking a bearing.  My axial has taken three of the hardest falls and tumbles which all made me cringe and it still works and cuts perfectly.  The bosch is tough as heck and i can guarantee that now.  15" of travel, and I have used every inch of that and I love it.  Its glide system is just davine, I recommend you try it.  The bevel mechanism is great too, I've been doing interior trim and the bevel being upwards at the front is a great innovation. Another thing I like is with the flip of a thumb you can disengage the miter detents while swinging the saw left to right.  This feature should be on every saw, cause it is so annoying when the saw wants to slide into the detent when you are trying to make a cut slightly to either side.  I've used the saw a ton and couldn't be happier.  It is heavy, if you're a wimp you may want another saw, but I move it around no problem, granted I'm 31 years old and no wimp.  It also can only take one laser, kapex has two, not a real big deal but that is something I wish it had.  Also the dust collection is not great, I'm sure the kapex is much better.  

I absolutely love my axial glide and know I made the right decision, but honestly you have to weigh what is most important for you.  I took many months deciding which saw to get, and after the abuse my Bosch has taken it was with out a doubt the right pic for me.  I had a broken lever on the fence that broke during shipping, a wonderful woman for the Bosch customer service sent me a new lever free of charge immediately no questions asked.  I was impressed, and she was great to talk with. I think the festool saw must be treated like a delicate tool.  So if you get the kapex, just be careful with it, the Bosch can literally be tossed down stairs, I've seen mine do it thanks to my dopey helper.
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Being a 12" saw I assume the Bosch also has greater cut capacities?
 
Oh definitely in the depth of cut the Bosch would cut deeper.  But if I were only doing fine work, like trimming and cabinetry sort of stuff, the kapex is the tool for that with all it's own features. I do everything so the Bosch more fit my needs.  I see the kapex in my future, hopefully they add some new goodies when I finally get it.  I think it's an amazing saw and I wish I had some extra coin to use it permanently in my enclosed trailer to keep the dust down in there.
 
I have a Bosch Glide and have had problems with kickback at the end of the cut. What problems did you have Festoolfootstool ? I am in the UK as well. Giff
 
jbc  I would first buy a dead accurate square, straight edge and 45 degree block. These could cost $300.00 but if taken care of will last forever. Order you're Kapex and right out of the box check the fence for straightness with feeler gauges. Check the table for square to the fence. Next check the saw blade for 90 degrees off the fence. Check the blade for 90 degrees off the table at several positions. Put the head at 45 degree bevel to the table and check with the square and the 45 degree block at several positions. If any of these fail send back before 30 days and order another and go through same procedure. For $1,300.00 you should get a fine tuned saw ready to go. Kapex seems to be best for dust pickup. MARK
 
I love my glide. I had the early kapex and had to return it twice. What I would have done if the kapex had not failed I do not know, considering how much I love the glide.  Think they are both great.
 
moorewarner said:
I just wanted to pipe up and say a thing.

I am surprised when I hear tradesmen moaning about the price of tools, and Festool stuff gets moaned about louder than any other. I am surprised doubly so to hear moaning about price here.

I currently run a DeWault 12" single bevel miter saw, and have been for about... crap like 15 years now. It has been a good little performer, and it has had all of it's limitations, heavy, dusty, stiff, etc. It will be replaced with a Kapex, soon.

The price difference between a Kapex and my second choice, a Makita slider, is about $600. I believe that Makita is a good saw, I also believe the Kapex is better. When I imagine using both for the next 10 years and try to put a value on the additional ease and function of a Kapex, for 10 years; and divide out the price difference over 10 years, 60 a year, honestly seems like a bargain.

A company like Festool that is seriously pushing the envelope in tool design, and employing folks for a living wage in their home country vs. exploiting cheap labor has real additional value to me as well beyond the value a better tool will bring over it's lifetime.

We all want good manufacturing jobs until it comes time to pony up and pay the extra cost associated with providing them. We all want kick  tools until they cost more than the competition.

I want tools crafted by artists for artists, and when I find them I call that a bargain.
Click to expand...
Well said!
 
moorewarner said:
I

A company like Festool that is seriously pushing the envelope in tool design, and employing folks for a living wage in their home country vs. exploiting cheap labor has real additional value to me as well beyond the value a better tool will bring over it's lifetime.

We all want good manufacturing jobs until it comes time to pony up and pay the extra cost associated with providing them. We all want kick  tools until they cost more than the competition.
Click to expand...

Coming from a guy who will not pony up $1350, I have to say this is an excellent point.

To the OP..You have to ask yourself what you will be using this saw for. The Kapex has NO equal in performance but also pricepoint and the Bosch is a fine saw for what it sets out to do. The precision might not be the same, but I have never had an issue with saw at this price point for finish work.
 
moorewarner said:
A company like Festool that is seriously pushing the envelope in tool design, and employing folks for a living wage in their home country vs. exploiting cheap labor has real additional value to me as well beyond the value a better tool will bring over it's lifetime.

We all want good manufacturing jobs until it comes time to pony up and pay the extra cost associated with providing them. We all want kick  tools until they cost more than the competition.

I want tools crafted by artists for artists, and when I find them I call that a bargain.
Click to expand...

This doesn't get mentioned enough here. For me, the fact that Festool is made in Germany vs. china is a HUGE factor. Just go visit a german factory and you will come back amazed. That being said, I know bosh is german as well, but are any of their tools made in Germany? (real question)
 
I'm a new User for Kapex but use my tools professionally.  My Impressions thus far might help you decide.  Although I've only used on one job requiring miters of small 1/4" thick molding, 3/4" thick maple(mitering 6"), and 3 1/2" crown. 

1)  The greatest difference for me has been the Miter and Bevel scales.  The numbers and increments are large and visible.  This one change has increased my ability and joy of use greatly! 

2)  Dual Laser.  An obvious change but a thankful one!

3)  Size.  Its a compact and lightweight unit.  For me this is a plus since I move from job to job. 

Note:  I'm not impressed with the dust collection using the standard CT hose(26mm?).  Perhaps when I switch to the 36mm things will get better.  With the Standard hose the dust collection isn't any better than my previous saw so if you do get a Kapex buy the larger hose at the same time.  Also be sure to buy an accessory to allow for crown stops since there isn't a place to clamp to.

 
jonathan-m said:
ceddy said:
I know bosh is german as well, but are any of their tools made in Germany? (real question)
Click to expand...

Yes.
Click to expand...

Bosch is a huge multinational conglomerate with sales of €50 billion per year. I'm sure they have factories all over the world, including some in Germany, but also a lot in China.
 
All Bosch miter saws are designed and engineered in Germany and then assembled China. There is no comparing the Bosch to the Kapex, two different classes of saw IMO. Therefore makes the comparison of these two saws a little hazy..Festool doesn't compete on price, they can't due to where they manufacture and how they manufacture. They compete on service and super-high quality for the most part..Put a call into each company and you will see....But alas, my point is sound. You have to ask yourself what you will use the saw for when you're talking this kind of $$. Otherwise the law of diminishing returns comes into play. Personally, I would be ashamed of myself if I spent $1350 as a DIYr, hobbyist, occasional side job type of guy owning a Kapex. Doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy it, just not as much as if it were making me $$ or offering me a level of precision $700 beyond the Bosch saws. I appreciate the Kapex, I really do, and if it were just below $1000 I might own one. The reality is, it's not just $1350 for a Kapex, it's really like $3500 saw by the time you are done with blades, stands, wings, and the Vac (which is a requirement).

Bosch, and others in it's class become alot more attractive when you consider all that. I LOVE Festool tools, own alot of them now. But this saw is out of reach for regular, more pragmatic folks who aren't using the saw as a dedicated source to generate revenue on a regular basis. Until then, it's a contractor/cabinet makers saw IMO..And quite honestly, it's the person using the saw that makes the cuts, not the saw that makes the cuts. Trying to convince yourself otherwise and that a $1350 saw will make you better at woodworking is complete rubbish. When I master the lower end saws, thats when I would feel worthy of this gem. Until then, I am focused on making tight miters on lesser saws, which have yet to let me down.

 
I have the bosch glider it is every bit a good as the bosch service here in the uk and they are built in china out of old food mixers [wink]
 
Festoolfootstool said:
I have the bosch glider it is every bit a good as the bosch service here in the uk and they are built in china out of old food mixers [wink]
Click to expand...

Forgive me for being dense, but Is that good or bad? 

Peter
 
I think that is UK humour Peter.....but do know what they make food mixers out of in China ??  [laughing]
 
Ken Nagrod said:
I've used both saws and while I like the glide mechanism, it's still a Bosch saw similar to previous models in every other aspect.  If you like Bosch saws and don't mind the size and weight, it is cheaper than the Kapex.  I would choose the Kapex for myself, between those two models due to cut quality, ease of use, lighter transport weight, compactness and dust reduction when used with the CT.  I still think for the kind of money being charged for the Kapex, it should come with a work piece light.
Click to expand...

for $1,300 it should come with an OPERATOR, but that is a separate issue.....  [big grin]

the festool is fast, it's accurate, it gets the dust pretty well....
i don't use a miter saw all that much, but i can't see anything i'd replace it with.

festool stuff works.... i had to bore some holes in the side of
a trench at work to get 4" ridgid conduit out of a footing, so i needed
to go in about a foot.... so i have an old 4 1/2" selfeed bit i use as a
post hole digger (wipe that look off your face, this isn't your tool)
so i put a 1' extension on the selfeed bit, assembled the right angle
drive and chuck to the drill amongst the rebar, and drilled into the
dirt horizontally.

now, this dirt was half sand and half adobe, compacted by wheel
rolling with a D-8 cat bulldozer... there were black and blue
burnished teeth marks from the backhoe digging the footings...
so it's about like concrete.

three 4 1/2" holes a foot deep, took about 15 minutes, one battery.

THAT is why i have two T-18 battery drills, or for that matter,
every festool i own. they just work.
 
Well I've put a lot of miles on my axial thus far and it's more than pleased me.  The 14" cut  capacity has been great, especially cutting clap boards above a 4 pitch roof where there was a long angled cut which every other saw wouldn't have cut the full length.  I just did a maple flooring install with new trim and crown, it did the job to great delight.  The dust collection was pretty good in fact, there was not much at all to clean up. I took off the dust shroud and used a piece of thin cardboard which took seconds to put on haha, it worked great. It's more than twice as wide catching lots more dust. I ordered the $5 kapex shrowd, but the cardboard is working great until it comes in.  Adding the oschlun laser was key, don't saw without it.  

There is absolutely no pinching like I've read, non at all and Ive cut hundreds of things, wide stuff, skinny stuff, really thick stuff.  moving it isn't a big deal.  In fact I carried it up a ladder onto my staging two frames high last week.  I can't stress how great it is to be able disengage the miter detents, this feature is so handy I don't want to be without it.  If you want to know if this is a great saw, the answer is yes.  It's a big saw for a reason, it has the largest cross cut and its made tough and built to last.  The glide system is a thing to behold.  

Bosch service was A+.  I had a broken part from shipping, a wonderful well spoken polite and very personable sounding gal sent me the part for free no questions asked.  I received it in less than a week.  Can't stress how wonderful she was.

The kapex is a great saw I'm sure, but you won't be unhappy with the Bosch.  People find issues with everything these days though, my experiences with the Bosch have only been great, worth every penny for about $700. At about double the price, the kapex must be an amazing saw too.  
 
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