woodferret
Member
Just keep an extra cheap blade in the box.
https://www.amazon.com/CMT-272-160-40h-CIRCULAR-40-ATB-Shear/dp/B01D8KI7DK?sr=8-6
https://www.amazon.com/CMT-272-160-40h-CIRCULAR-40-ATB-Shear/dp/B01D8KI7DK?sr=8-6
"I'm too poor to afford cheap tools"; What Festools exude value?
- Thread starter friedchicken
- Start date
Tom the Remodeler
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Crazyraceguy said:
That's a great point. It's funny, when I tell friends/colleagues that I have a Hoffmann PU-2 some get really excited, others just stare at me blankly.... [blink]
friedchicken
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woodferret said:
darn. CMT are nice! That's not a terrible price at all.
Although, re: standard blades: what on earth is "HW 160X1.8/1.2X20(+16) Z=40"?!?!?!?
Tom the Remodeler
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friedchicken said:
This is an internationally recognized, standardized system for describing the properties of a given circular saw blade, also relevant to shaper tooling, router bits, drill bits, mortise cutters, etc....
-- HW = carbide teeth
-- 160x1.8/1.2x20 (+16) Z=40: 160mm major diameter x 1.8mm tooth width / 1.2mm plate thickness x 20mm bore (16 degree hook angle) Z= 40 tooth
friedchicken said:
Rrrright. Because only for people that can't get with the standard, Bosch named their tools all kinds of crazy stuff while in Europe it would just be an GDX 18V-###
How is it that you claim you don't want things that "break standards" yet you don't even seem to know any standard?
Cheese
Member
Coen said:
Amen Coen...how is it that a metric standard is not a standard while an imperial standard is a standard? They're both standards but aimed at two different audiences.
friedchicken
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Coen said:
What are you talking about? The Bosch Freak accepts 1/4" hex bits and has a 1/2" square drive for 1/2" sockets...
What does that have anything to do with standards?
Festool has (had?) the arrogance to sell tools with metric measurements on them in the United States, where, newsflash: the majority if work uses Imperial (AKA Standard) measurements.
Not only that, I actually prefer them, and I'm very well versed in the metric system (probably even better than you, unless you also happen to be a scientist).
Cheese
Member
friedchicken said:
Just curious, what is the Bosch Freak? Is that name something that Bosch pinned on the item or is that name something that others pinned on the item?
luvmytoolz
Member
friedchicken said:
I'd say from the manufacturer's point of view it's actually common sense to increasingly standardise on metric offerings wherever possible, especially as the beauty of the metric system is you don't need to be a scientist to understand and use it.
onocoffee
Member
I am decidedly NOT a scientist and am glad that metric is so readily divisible.
Plus, I'm an American. Not an American't...
Plus, I'm an American. Not an American't...
friedchicken
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Cheese said:
It's their 18v impact driver with a (brilliant) combination 1/2" anvil and 1/4" hex:
https://www.boschtools.com/us/en/products/gdx18v-1860cn-06019J0217
They marketed it as the "Freak" and then the "Freak II", but seemingly now they're moving away from that name scheme.
woodferret
Member
onocoffee said:
I like that. It's cute.
friedchicken said:
I don't understand why is it arrogance for a manufacturer to chose to sell a product with a measuring system on it that you don't ever wish to get used to (as you have written? Might it be that the vast rest of the markets that they manufacture for and sell to actually use that other measuring system? Yes, Festool has changed over some of their scales on tools to either dual measurement or also to imperial in a bow to increasing sales here (my assumption as to why) but when you move those adjusting mechanisms they still move in increments of metric. Newsflash: There can be more than one standard. Try working on a mid 1970's GM auto and you'll see dual standards in place for instance.
Peter
Tom the Remodeler
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As a professional carpenter in North America, and I find working in Metric (MM) to be a much more pleasurable experience than working in inches. Granted, I'll still use Inches/Feet for coarse work like framing, but for anything finer than stud spacing or wall sheathing I immediately switch over to MM. I am actively avoiding the new Festool tools with Imperial markings.
[member=78045]friedchicken[/member], it's important for you to know that the Festool tools available in North America are still Metric machines, but with Imperial scales, so it's actually the worst case scenario. When I say "Metric machines", I am referring to the fact that they are still made with metric threading on their adjustments and increments, so one full rotation of a given screw usually results in 1mm or 2mm of movement. The track saws still have 1mm increment depth adjustments, so at a given detent the pointer will generally not land on an Imperial increment.
The OF-1400 is a very slick router, but it's optimized for Festool's accessories and ecosystem, so if you're looking for a router that works with "standard" accessories you're going to be disappointed. The only thing "standard" about the OF-1400 is the 1/2" collet. Sure, there's an adapter to use Porter Cale guide bushings, but you can't center the bushings on the spindle, so if you perform a lot of template work you'll be better served with a Makita or Bosch router.
All of the above being said, if you're just puttering around your home and want tools that utilize consumables which you can purchase at the local hardware store, you'll be much happier purchasing brands available at those same hardware stores.
Festool, Mafell, and other European brands are targeted at the professional market (with a secondary market of wealthy hobbyists), so they generally use standard European blades, bits, etc... If that doesn't work with your definition of "standard", then you should avoid that tier of tools.
Griping about the Festool blades and consumables is like purchasing a European sports car, then complaining about the expensive tires.
[member=78045]friedchicken[/member], it's important for you to know that the Festool tools available in North America are still Metric machines, but with Imperial scales, so it's actually the worst case scenario. When I say "Metric machines", I am referring to the fact that they are still made with metric threading on their adjustments and increments, so one full rotation of a given screw usually results in 1mm or 2mm of movement. The track saws still have 1mm increment depth adjustments, so at a given detent the pointer will generally not land on an Imperial increment.
The OF-1400 is a very slick router, but it's optimized for Festool's accessories and ecosystem, so if you're looking for a router that works with "standard" accessories you're going to be disappointed. The only thing "standard" about the OF-1400 is the 1/2" collet. Sure, there's an adapter to use Porter Cale guide bushings, but you can't center the bushings on the spindle, so if you perform a lot of template work you'll be better served with a Makita or Bosch router.
All of the above being said, if you're just puttering around your home and want tools that utilize consumables which you can purchase at the local hardware store, you'll be much happier purchasing brands available at those same hardware stores.
Festool, Mafell, and other European brands are targeted at the professional market (with a secondary market of wealthy hobbyists), so they generally use standard European blades, bits, etc... If that doesn't work with your definition of "standard", then you should avoid that tier of tools.
Griping about the Festool blades and consumables is like purchasing a European sports car, then complaining about the expensive tires.
friedchicken
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The Metric vs Standard discussion needs its own thread.
friedchicken said:
A search of the forum will result in numerous threads.
Peter
friedchicken said:
It's had more than anyone cares to remember.
friedchicken said:
I am talking about you!
You are on a high horse with your "standards" yet you don't seem to realize you are way off.
1) Metric is the standard except for like... one country. The measurement system (inch) you use was CHANGED to be exactly 25.4mm so it's just a lousy conversion on top of metric.
2) You don't seem to realize that specially for a few markets that have trouble getting along with standards everyone uses, Bosch has named their GDX the "Freak". Everywhere else it's the GDX or "Gewerbliche Drehschlagschrauber X" followed by a number... the number being the torque in Nm. Just like Festool's letters are all abbreviations of the German name. The one I own is a GDX 18v-200 C. And yes, it's awesome.
3) You claim to be well versed in the metric system and claim to love standards, yet you need help with figuring out basic saw blade naming.
friedchicken said:
Definitely not.
onocoffee
Member
In modern times, it seems difficult to consider a topic more droll than "metric sucks, imperial is amurika"...
