Is it possible to buy a NEW Festool?

[mino]

A while back, I used to get all my tools from Bob Marino. Never had any issues. Loved it.

Then...

1. A few years ago, I purchased some items from Tool-Nut, what they sent to me were scuffed, clearly either demoed or used. I started a thread on here about it w/photos. I returned the items.

2. A few months ago, I inquired about favorite dealers - and heard Chip @ Tool Nirvana. I had some correspondence with them about the possibility of getting my items DROP SHIPPED, but he couldn't accommodate.

3. I had heard great things about Hartville Hardware, so I thought I'd give them a try. Today, I received a shipment of a TXS set from Harville Hardware, purchased via Amazon.com - new. I had previously called them to inquire about getting my items drop shipped, but they could not offer that...they (some guy on the floor in the store that I talked to via phone) told me that they only sold used on eBay and to rest assured that everything else is "new"...Sadly, I received the following (see photos). They (Lisa) claim it came like this directly from Festool.
...

I can see the value is allowing people to demo new tools, but it seems many retailers sell those as "new".

It has become seemingly impossible to get a product from Festool that has never been handled.

I don't want to get into medical issues here, but there are immunocompromised people in the world who cannot have used items that have been demo'ed and sold as "new".

Can someone help me with either:
1. Drop shipment of tools
2. Guaranteed NEW, never demo'ed, never opened tools?

I'd be happy to buy many thousands of dollars in tools - to buy in bulk if necessary - for the honor and privilege of getting something that is actually, really, NEW.

Appreciate the help,
-mark

Hate to burst your bubble. BUT.

1) Unfortunately, you are buying tools, not medical equipment. There is zero (0) guarantee or expectation the tool you buy is sterile and/or was not touched. As a matter of fact I am 100% sure IT IS NOT. Not. A. Single. Of. Them.

Festool tools are made by people, checked by people /after assembly/ for functionality, packed by people. Not by robots. That is before they even get to the US where additional people may check them as part of their QA or other reasons. Even the Bob Marino mentioned must have touched the tools he sold to re-package them (!).

2) Above is true for ALL power tools you buy. Be it from Walmart or from Mafell. The only difference is if some tool was better wrapped or was/was-not wiped from dust but they ALL were handled by people at some point and are decisively not sterile. Not in the medical sense of the word.

3) All the photos you show are a normal look of tools after they leave the factory and endure some transport. I cannot say if you got demo tools or not. I can however state that those "marks" are not indications of prior use by another customer or dealer.

-----
Now, onto the core issue. You are apparently looking for sterile tools, not new/old as per your explanations.

If you have health issues and require to get only sterile equipment, I am afraid you will not have much luck with any general tool vendor. Were you to do some microbe cultivation and then check out results using proper lab kit, I am confident you would fine microbes even on some dirt cheap tools with toxic-to-humans skin surface coatings. A microbe will survive a lot. Much more than people imagine.


As for what to do with this 'situation':
Whatever the cause of your concerns /I have no right to judge/, the only practical way for having sterile tools, or at least sterile-to-touch is for you to sterilise them yourself. For a start giving everything a thorough wipe with pure alcohol cloth, submerging stuff that can be submerged, would be my first level.

If that was deemed inadequate, I would have to defer you to some medical pros who sterilise tools in hospitals but I would not hold your breath. A tool/device needs to be manufactured with sterilisation in mind. One cannot just take a random power tool and dump it in an autoclave ..

Hope helps.

 

[derekcohen]

The marks look like scuffs from movement inside packaging. In any event, while I appreciate you want that new car smell and deserve it, this situation does not bother me since a new tool will never look pristine for longer that 1 second once used. My main issue would be if the tool had been used, and I doubt that these have.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[MacBoy]

Just to give you another perspective of Hartville Hardware.

From their eBay site, I bought bags for my CT 15 from Hartville Hardware.

It arrived on time, but only had 4 bags, and it was missing the 5th one.

I sent them a note via the eBay messaging portal.

They apologized and sent me the 5th bag.

I’m miffed that it was only 4 of 5 bags, and also happy that it was an easy fix.

I’ve also bought Festool items directly from Hartville Hardware’s web site with no problems.

 

[usernumber1]

I also wonder why is there an issue. They are clearly not previously used, they do however look to be previously handled.

Maybe think about if you're ok with handled tools, in my opinion it's not worth considering.

 

[Cheese]

Over the years I've purchased a ton of stuff from the local Woodcraft store and I do remember on 3 occasions that upon opening the Systainer, the contents were secured with shrink-wrap. The items purchased were a DF 500, a DF 700 and a LR 32. Nothing else I've purchased has been shrink-wrapped so it's really a catch-as-catch-can situation. I will say, it was a comforting feeling to open the Systainer and see the contents secured with shrink-wrap.

 

[mdavis]

I can't recall at the moment which thread it was, but I believe it was also an issue with an Amazon order via Hartville Hardware. IIRC, the OP was also having difficulty getting them to authorize the shipment back. I don't understand why an Amazon order for Festool from Hartville would change how Amazon handles returns.

In the times when I have looked at Festool stuff on Amazon, it says that the tool is being sold by Festool. Is it actually Hartville Hardware in lieu of Festool USA on Amazon?

More reasons why I do prefer to do my Festool purchasing in-person. But you mentioned Portland? Aren't there a few Festool dealers in your city? I think I remember there being a Rockler too?

At Amazon, you can buy things that are ship+sold at Amazon...or 3rd party like Harville Hardware, or a mixture - where the item is sold from a 3rd party, but ships from amazon...when a 3rd party is involved, they can set their own policies for return...think of Amazon as a middleman in some instances.

I always try to buy direct from amazon - ship/sold from amazon - when possible...it eliminates hassle.

-mark

 

[mdavis]

Festool is fairly green and they wouldn't use that much cardboard. Cardboard would also increase the size of the systainers which would over time increase their shipping costs.

Peter

Cardboard is pretty eco friendly, but that still allows for a tamper-resistant tape...even if you dismiss cardboard....and there is no way the plastic wrap matters for that.

 

[mdavis]

Hate to burst your bubble. BUT.

1) Unfortunately, you are buying tools, not medical equipment. There is zero (0) guarantee or expectation the tool you buy is sterile and/or was not touched. As a matter of fact I am 100% sure IT IS NOT. Not. A. Single. Of. Them.

Festool tools are made by people, checked by people /after assembly/ for functionality, packed by people. Not by robots. That is before they even get to the US where additional people may check them as part of their QA or other reasons. Even the Bob Marino mentioned must have touched the tools he sold to re-package them (!).

2) Above is true for ALL power tools you buy. Be it from Walmart or from Mafell. The only difference is if some tool was better wrapped or was/was-not wiped from dust but they ALL were handled by people at some point and are decisively not sterile. Not in the medical sense of the word.

3) All the photos you show are a normal look of tools after they leave the factory and endure some transport. I cannot say if you got demo tools or not. I can however state that those "marks" are not indications of prior use by another customer or dealer.

-----
Now, onto the core issue. You are apparently looking for sterile tools, not new/old as per your explanations.

If you have health issues and require to get only sterile equipment, I am afraid you will not have much luck with any general tool vendor. Were you to do some microbe cultivation and then check out results using proper lab kit, I am confident you would fine microbes even on some dirt cheap tools with toxic-to-humans skin surface coatings. A microbe will survive a lot. Much more than people imagine.


As for what to do with this 'situation':
Whatever the cause of your concerns /I have no right to judge/, the only practical way for having sterile tools, or at least sterile-to-touch is for you to sterilise them yourself. For a start giving everything a thorough wipe with pure alcohol cloth, submerging stuff that can be submerged, would be my first level.

If that was deemed inadequate, I would have to defer you to some medical pros who sterilise tools in hospitals but I would not hold your breath. A tool/device needs to be manufactured with sterilisation in mind. One cannot just take a random power tool and dump it in an autoclave ..

Hope helps.

Yes, I understand how these things are built...but there is a time component..and the less people have handled new equipment, the better...there are the necessary handlers as part of the manufacturing, Q&A, and packing process...prior to a long shipment time where most things I worry about will not be active anymore...and then the unnecessary - people who want to demo the equipment, people who want to pull warranty cards out, very close in time to my possession.

Lots of people pay the same for a new car with 5 miles vs. 50 miles vs. 150 miles vs. 500 miles. Some people care, others do not. I'm sure lots of people don't care too much about the condition of their "new" tools...but I do. I agree that a lot of scuffs are white in nature, quite possibly some from shipment..but also there are wood shavings both inside and outside of the box...and the scratches on the chunk make me think it was taken on/off multiple times.

Feedback for Festool -
a.) you can engineer the systainers that can ship w/o marking up the product...it is possible...
b.) you can seal the systainers, at least everyone knows whether it was opened or not at that point. transparency is good.
c.) you could record - and report via the app - the hours run for each tool...lots of things do that. same for the batteries. battery cycle monitoring has many use cases.

-mark

 

[mdavis]

Just to give you another perspective of Hartville Hardware.

From their eBay site, I bought bags for my CT 15 from Hartville Hardware.

It arrived on time, but only had 4 bags, and it was missing the 5th one.

I sent them a note via the eBay messaging portal.

They apologized and sent me the 5th bag.

I’m miffed that it was only 4 of 5 bags, and also happy that it was an easy fix.

I’ve also bought Festool items directly from Hartville Hardware’s web site with no problems.

The guy I talked to in one of the Hartville Hardware stores told me they sell their used stuff on eBay, so I'd be careful with that. -mark

 

[mdavis]

The marks look like scuffs from movement inside packaging. In any event, while I appreciate you want that new car smell and deserve it, this situation does not bother me since a new tool will never look pristine for longer that 1 second once used. My main issue would be if the tool had been used, and I doubt that these have.

Regards from Perth

Derek

The uncertainty is part of the problem, and a tamper-resistant seal would fix that. I may be (however very unlikely) the only person who cares about this. -mark

 

[usernumber1]

i dont know what you would accomplish. the brand doesn't require some premium unboxing experience or emotional connection to justify cost. none of the solutions presented make any sense if the problem is made up

they're tools to be used, not even heirloom pieces. think of buying shoes, however premium they are all mostly tried out by many people prior and walked on in the store. maybe some exceptions of course, but nobody has an issue to get a pair that's been sealed. normal daily wear of course not some edge case

i like your analogy with the car. cars are emotional purchases, but they can also be tools. ask yourself how many fleet managers demand the odometer below 500 when purchasing work vehicles.

 

[mino]

... Lots of people pay the same for a new car with 5 miles vs. 50 miles vs. 150 miles vs. 500 miles. Some people care, others do not. I'm sure lots of people don't care too much about the condition of their "new" tools...but I do. I agree that a lot of scuffs are white in nature, quite possibly some from shipment..but also there are wood shavings both inside and outside of the box...and the scratches on the chunk make me think it was taken on/off multiple times.

-mark

That is a false equivalence.

First, a car with XYZ miles is not the same as "a car with 1-2-5 dealer personnel who sat in it". Second cars are not power tools where rough handling is to be expected from the get go. Third, cars are bought as status symbols for emotional/presentations needs. Power tools, even Festool, did not reach that level of decadence. Mostly. LOL.

Be aware that my advice was genuine, not in spite or condescending. I know enough of microbiology to authoritatively state that this position:
the less people have handled new equipment, the better...

Is a fallacy in practice.
People thought it is so a couple centuries before, but then Louis Pasteur came along with his microscopes..

Second, you seem to be building your agitation on another fallacy:
"If something looks clean(er) it means it is /microbiologically/ clean(er)."

That is very much NOT so! And it is dangerous to thinkg it is.

What is worse, in focusing on such irrelevant aspects, you seem to be almost completely ignoring what DOES MATTER for hygiene:

Festool tools have smooth touching/handling surfaces, especially the grips, meaning they can be disinfected easily. Unlike most other tools of today where the grips have a thousand unnecessary wrinkles to work around the employment of a low-quality rubber/plastic which would be slippery otherwise.

---
I am no Festool, but some points:

[I]Feedback for Festool -[/I]
a.) you can engineer the systainers that can ship w/o marking up the product...it is possible...
No, it is not possible. Not if the systainer inserts are to allow for quick/convenient tool removal - their primary job. Being able to ship tools safely in them is just a bonus of their primary function. Easy to forget this though. They could add some transport-only foam in between that would make the tools LOOK cleaner, but would have no other effect than create more eco-waste which most of their customers would be unhappy about these days and the EU would even chastise them for.

b.) you can seal the systainers, at least everyone knows whether it was opened or not at that point. transparency is good.
Yes, but that would:
A) cause lots of practical problems for dealers/shops.
B) be pointless on merit: A tool supposed to last decades that cannot 'handle' being handled is not worthy of the "tool" moniker in the first place.

c.) you could record - and report via the app - the hours run for each tool...lots of things do that. same for the batteries. battery cycle monitoring has many use cases.
Again, se B) above. Festool tools are rated/build for thousands of work hours. Besides that, a single hour of heavy use is equivalent to 100s hours of showing stuff to customers level "use". Such a metric would be utterly pointless/confusing to the point of being harmful. Power tools are not cars.


I empathize with your concerns. I do. In many other scenarios I would even support them. But not here. It is just you are openly not a trades person nor an engineer or microbiologist and there is a LOT of FUD around the internet on these topics that is hard to traverse for a general person. Either way, you seem to be basing your prioritisation of concern on the wrong information. If you have health concerns, your best bet is indeed to get into the practice of sterilising your tools /and supplies/ after purchase and buying those that have smooth surfaces so they actually can be effectively disinfected. That is all the serious advice I can give here.

 

[peter halle]

Well, hopefully the OP will get the satisfaction he desires and the world will go round.

Peter

 

[bertv]

An insider told me that accessories from machines are sometimes pilfered to sell them separately — cuts down on having more inventory. The 'missing' item is ordered and after receiving added back or sometimes one taken from another product's systainer is needed to complete an order, etcetera etcetera.
Every time something is handled it will get soiled, scuffed, or whatever... Such is life.

(The late thriller writer Trevanian had a protagonist — a professor, I think, able to kill with a newspaper or a straw — who would kick a newly acquired car to dent it and taking the 'newness' off it. That has stuck with me and I do the same. May be a zen thing to do, too, because it gives me inner peace.)

 

[peter halle]

An insider told me that accessories from machines are sometimes pilfered to sell them separately — cuts down on having more inventory. The 'missing' item is ordered and after receiving added back or sometimes one taken from another product's systainer is needed to complete an order, etcetera etcetera.
Every time something is handled it will get soiled, scuffed, or whatever... Such is life.

(The late thriller writer Trevanian had a protagonist — a professor, I think, able to kill with a newspaper or a straw — who would kick a newly acquired car to dent it and taking the 'newness' off it. That has stuck with me and I do the same. May be a zen thing to do, too, because it gives me inner peace.)

I believe you are in the Netherlands and would suspect that you have more brick and mortar stores where what you wrote could very easily happen. I doubt that is happening often in the case of the dealers who deal in large quantities and may very possibly use a fulfillment / logistic services warehouse.

Peter

 

[Fourmi]

My two cents - nothing about your photos says used... I concur that it is movement in the systainer during shipping - the systainer and its insert have done the job, it's arrived with no damage.
Immunocompromised is a whole different subject - clean with isopropyl alcohol, it will not damage the plastics. Not nice if you / someone around you has this problem - but to fair you need to be opening boxes in ventilated areas with correct masks, sterilising the outside of the systainer, etc., the list is long.
Wait and see what the tool looks like once is done some real work, you'll soon forget the shipping dust. Just use it and enjoy using it.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

That is terrible. These are very simple policies to fix - let people register themselves and seal the products. I can only imagine that the only reason a company would NOT want to seal the product is so people can demo them and still sell them as new.

My local dealers "offer" to do that for everyone, but they don't just do it without approval. I would bet a lot that this comes up when people make a warranty claim and get mad, when they find out that they needed to register their purchases.
As far as the other issues; I have purchased dozens of Festool tools, from various sources, and never had a problem.
I always get tracks from local dealers, just to avoid shipping hassles, but the Systainers have always done fine.

They take them out as they're so used to registering the tool themselves. Trouble when they do that is it doesn't show up in your tool list under your own account.

I've always been in the habit of opening up the items at the counter during purchase to ensure it's complete and not a used one as has happened.

Bought a lipping planer a while back and it came with a bunch of sawdust in it and scratches, when I complained they said they only had the demo model which they sold me as a new model!

So now if I'm buying from a remote store, I have to ask if it's new in the box or has been used! Extremely annoying.

That's a dealer issue, not a Festool problem. That same thing could happen with any other brand tools too.

 

[luvmytoolz]

My local dealers "offer" to do that for everyone, but they don't just do it without approval. I would bet a lot that this comes up when people make a warranty claim and get mad, when they find out that they needed to register their purchases.
As far as the other issues; I have purchased dozens of Festool tools, from various sources, and never had a problem.
I always get tracks from local dealers, just to avoid shipping hassles, but the Systainers have always done fine.

That's a dealer issue, not a Festool problem. That same thing could happen with any other brand tools too.

That was my point exactly, some dealerships don't care about items getting used to demo instore, and so long as it looks new when I get it I don't particularly care, but when it comes with scratches on the sole, wear marks, and nicks in the blade, that's a bit over the top and says a lot about a place that would sell that as a pristine new tool.

 

[mdavis]

i dont know what you would accomplish. the brand doesn't require some premium unboxing experience or emotional connection to justify cost. none of the solutions presented make any sense if the problem is made up

they're tools to be used, not even heirloom pieces. think of buying shoes, however premium they are all mostly tried out by many people prior and walked on in the store. maybe some exceptions of course, but nobody has an issue to get a pair that's been sealed. normal daily wear of course not some edge case

i like your analogy with the car. cars are emotional purchases, but they can also be tools. ask yourself how many fleet managers demand the odometer below 500 when purchasing work vehicles.

Really high end shoes are made with custom lasts, patterns, leathers, etc...for you only.

 

[mdavis]

That is a false equivalence.

First, a car with XYZ miles is not the same as "a car with 1-2-5 dealer personnel who sat in it". Second cars are not power tools where rough handling is to be expected from the get go. Third, cars are bought as status symbols for emotional/presentations needs. Power tools, even Festool, did not reach that level of decadence. Mostly. LOL.

Be aware that my advice was genuine, not in spite or condescending. I know enough of microbiology to authoritatively state that this position:
the less people have handled new equipment, the better...

Is a fallacy in practice.
People thought it is so a couple centuries before, but then Louis Pasteur came along with his microscopes..

Second, you seem to be building your agitation on another fallacy:
"If something looks clean(er) it means it is /microbiologically/ clean(er)."

That is very much NOT so! And it is dangerous to thinkg it is.

What is worse, in focusing on such irrelevant aspects, you seem to be almost completely ignoring what DOES MATTER for hygiene:

Festool tools have smooth touching/handling surfaces, especially the grips, meaning they can be disinfected easily. Unlike most other tools of today where the grips have a thousand unnecessary wrinkles to work around the employment of a low-quality rubber/plastic which would be slippery otherwise.

---
I am no Festool, but some points:

[I]Feedback for Festool -[/I]
a.) you can engineer the systainers that can ship w/o marking up the product...it is possible...
No, it is not possible. Not if the systainer inserts are to allow for quick/convenient tool removal - their primary job. Being able to ship tools safely in them is just a bonus of their primary function. Easy to forget this though. They could add some transport-only foam in between that would make the tools LOOK cleaner, but would have no other effect than create more eco-waste which most of their customers would be unhappy about these days and the EU would even chastise them for.

b.) you can seal the systainers, at least everyone knows whether it was opened or not at that point. transparency is good.
Yes, but that would:
A) cause lots of practical problems for dealers/shops.
B) be pointless on merit: A tool supposed to last decades that cannot 'handle' being handled is not worthy of the "tool" moniker in the first place.

c.) you could record - and report via the app - the hours run for each tool...lots of things do that. same for the batteries. battery cycle monitoring has many use cases.
Again, se B) above. Festool tools are rated/build for thousands of work hours. Besides that, a single hour of heavy use is equivalent to 100s hours of showing stuff to customers level "use". Such a metric would be utterly pointless/confusing to the point of being harmful. Power tools are not cars.


I empathize with your concerns. I do. In many other scenarios I would even support them. But not here. It is just you are openly not a trades person nor an engineer or microbiologist and there is a LOT of FUD around the internet on these topics that is hard to traverse for a general person. Either way, you seem to be basing your prioritisation of concern on the wrong information. If you have health concerns, your best bet is indeed to get into the practice of sterilising your tools /and supplies/ after purchase and buying those that have smooth surfaces so they actually can be effectively disinfected. That is all the serious advice I can give here.

The car I drive - a Porsche GT car - is meant for racing on a track - I'd characterize that as pretty rough handling...yet, people seem to care about the initial mileage...