Is the TPC any good?

[tomktest]

I'm trying to consolidate my tools a bit. I want to get rid of all my M18 as well as the Bosch 12v Flexiclick. I am currently running the DeWalt 12v Xtreme screwdriver for most work around the house but for any serious work I have to use my M18 Gen 2 combo kit which I hate.

Since I like my TSC 55K so much I am thinking about trying out the new TID/TPC combo kit. The TID looks solid but I'm looking for feedback on the TPC...

- Does the e-clutch work well for small screws on the lowest setting (can you stop it with your hand for instance)

- Does it feel too bulky or heavy to be a daily driver work general woodworking and around the house?

- Is the centrotec chuck going to be annoying since I can't share bits between the TID and TPC? Sure would be nice if Festool could make a standard hex chuck.

- Does the TPC ever leave you wanting for more power?

- Is there anything you wish you could change about it?

There is NO way I could use the Milwaukee Gen3 Drill as a daily driver. It's heavy and unrefined. The clutch is not sensitive enough for small screws. It's really loud and I've already had to send it in for repair once. The Gen 3 impact is too powerful for delicate work.

I'm thinking the TID could take the place of the 12v screwdriver if I'm careful and the TPC could do everything else.

My other option is to go with the new DeWalt DCF850 compact impact w/Powerstack batteries and the DCD999. I have quite a few other DeWalt tools and I will be keeping that platform as it has tools that Festool does not offer.

Thanks!

 

[Birdhunter]

Wow! So many choices we have.

I don’t like the looks of the TPC. Brobably a great tool, but not pretty to my eyes.

I’ve settled down to the TSX for light work. T18 for heavy work. TID18 for rare super hard work.

I could drive screws with the TID18, but not where delicacy is required.

 

[JINRO]

For daily, I use M18 Fuel Surge and it's much quieter and refined then my M18 Fuel Impact.  I too am willing to hop on TID/TPC combo.  You asked perfect questions and I'm curious for inputs from FOG members as well

 

[mino]

Given your circumstances, here is what I would do:

Screw/Drill portfolio:

A go-to screwdriver/drill:
Festool CXS or TSX in the set version (no competition from other brands there really, see other threads for why)

A go-to "main/daily" drill/driver:
Festool TDC 18/4, this will align well with the exchangable chucks used by the CXS, get it in the "Basic" version.

A secondary "smooth" drill (changing even Centrotec chucks takes time) plus bateries for the TDC:
T18 Easy, it does not have the Centrotec but is an excellent GP drill and has an unbeatable price to boot wehn you get it with the battteries+ charges. The drill is almost "free" there.

Percussion + rough work drill (two roles in one):
Take some hammer drill with 90+Nm/700+inLbs torque from the M18 platform.

Alternative: Ryobi PBLHM101https://www.ryobitools.com/products/details/33287191598

It is a torque monster, even stronger than the TDC, has a hammer function, and the platform is great for "low-use" tools as they have a LOT of weird stuff for those one-off jobs.

Overall, I believe the best setup is:
- Festool 18V is certainly worth it has some great/unique tools (TDC, TSC, HKC, AGC, OSC) but it is not "one platform to rule them all" as they do not have the weirdos in their offer
- get on with one "semi-pro" 18V/20V platfrom, like the Ryobi and use it for the "weird/rough stuff" as much as possible, also Ryobi has excellent AirStream nailers which are in the "true pro" space at a good price, that why I recommend them for "cheapo/one-off" battery tools
- keep the M18 platform, but sell on the tools you do not like, it is a wide-platform for special use stuff but their "go-to" tools are not all that ergonomic from what I gather

Point being, in my experience the M18 tools tend to be (generally) too expensive for "one-off/weird tool use case" and too un-ergonomic for daily-driver use case. So IMO the platfrom is good to keep, if you already have it, as the "last resort ehen no better option is around" but is not good as the "one to rule them all".

So, in summary I would get rid of any other 12V platforms (sans the CXS one) and have Festool 18V + Ryobi 20V + M18 as the backup (where neither Festool has a better option and Ryobi is not good-enough). That should cover you for about 99.9% of needs.

As your next purchase, IMO the best choice is adding the Ryobi for the battery platform and an impact from them. Impacts are a "rough" tool in my vocabulary so there is not that much benefit in going TiD here. Along it get the CXS as your "handy" driver.

Then you can sell the tools you hate and also drop the 12V plafforms. Keeping only unique stuff on the M18.

In the next purchase, I would get:
TDC 18/4 (Basic) + T18 Easy to go along the CSX + consider one of the Centrotec installers sets with the special drill bits/tools in them.

After that, add stuff on the Festool 18V where you want "top ergonomics", from the Ryobi when you just need raw power or occasional use and from M18 if neither Festool nor Ryobi has a suitable tool.

My 3cents.
[big grin]

4th cent:
Why TDC and not TPC ?

Simples. Using fine machinery like the TPC with its excellent chuck system, a game-changing gearbox an excellent trigger and a good electronic clutch for rough and dirty work like masonry drilling is just sacrilege. And a waste too.
It is much better to have a raw-power with hammer tool for the raw jobs and use your Festool as the daily-goto drill instead. It will last decades in that role and bring you countless joy.

And once not planning to use the drill for masonry, there is no point getting the TPC with its 3 ounces of the percussion mechanism in it with no purpose.

Note: all above is from a perspective of a hobbyist/one-man-shop. Not someone going on installs in homes or offices where the benefit of carying just one tool - the TPC - is certainly worth it.

 

[Don_hoosier_handmade]

If your main concern is consolidating and simplicity I would go for the T18 or C18 for general use and the TPC for heavy duty. I say that because they will do any work you want them to from finesse to hogging material out and they take the same battery which speaks to the consolidation. 

That being said my recommendation would be having the CSX for general light duty work, T18 for auxiliary work or a little heavier work, and the TPC for heavy work. I do finish work, restorations, and remodeling and I do grab my TID for some tasks but it gets the least amount of use. I should mention I started out with Dewalt drills and drivers and used the impact driver for almost everything and when I switched to festool that changed to the exact opposite.

I have a spot in my tool bag for a drill and I keep the CXS in there permanently, love that little drill.

Another side note, if I’m doing a lot of drilling and driving (cabinetry and such) I keep my predrill in my CXS and drive bit in my T18 or vise verse, rather than switching heads or bits back and forth. 

 

[Birdhunter]

I’m not a professional woodworker, but like to keep a project moving. At times, I might have 3 drills on the bench each with a different purpose. Usually, it’s a CSX, TSX, and. T18.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

I am a professional woodworker. If performance and quality are more important than initial cost, check out the entire 22-volt Hilti platform. I’m 5 years in - and I honestly can’t fault it.

Any of it.

 

[slavi.yordanov]

I have had my TPC for about a month now. It actually looks like a modern drill, unlike the previous PDC design.

It feels pretty heavy and well built. Gears are easy to switch and the percussion mode is good for some light duty stuff.

It feels great in the hand, but I think it’s quite heavy for everyday screw driver. I mostly use mine for drilling holes through framing members and plywoods. It does the job fairly well, much better than the C18. The kickback function can be quite annoying sometimes with bigger hole saws.

I was hoping it could push 1” paddle bits on 4th speed, but it doesn’t have enough power. It just can’t compare to m18 Milwaukee in terms of power. The other day I have tried it with a 1 3/8” auger bit and it couldn’t even go half way through a 2x4, even on 1st gear.

The TID is nothing special in my opinion. I have had many impact drills ant the best thing about it is how it feels in the hand. I much prefer Milwaukee’s surge drivers.

 

[elfick]

Given your circumstances, here is what I would do:

4th cent:
Why TDC and not TPC ?

OP is in the US where they are unlikely to release the TDC... They never brought over the non-percussion version of the PDC if I recall correctly.

 

[tomktest]

This is some great feedback thank you.

If Festool ever updates the CXS/TXS I will give it a try. The reason I was looking at the TPC over the T18 is because I need at least one drill with a side handle otherwise I will end up breaking my wrist which has nearly happened too many times. I will miss my M18 Surge for sure but I've had to send that one in for repair as well which is not a good sign especially when I'm just a hobbyist.

I suppose the proper setup is 5 drill/drivers. I get the idea that TPC is just too big for daily use - if it's ever in stock around here I really need to get my hands on it.

1. Installation driver
2. Impact driver
3. Mid-size drill (optional)
4. Heavy duty drill
------------------------
5. Rotary hammer

I have a corded Bosch rotary hammer so realistically I will never use a hammer function on a standard drill. I have also been checking out the DeWalt DCD703 5-in-1 as a possible daily driver...

DeWalt Setup

1. Installation: DCD703
2. Impact: DCD850 (with Power Stack)
3. Mid-size: DCD800 (releases this month)
4. Heavy Duty: DCD999

Pros: More powerful, all brushless, less expensive, larger battery platform, no centrotec, better lighting

Festool Setup

1. Installation: TXS
2. Impact: TID 18
3. Mid-Size: T18
4: Heavy Duty: TPC

Pros: Better quality, more refined, quieter, better ergonomics, chuck options, systainers

So is the refinement of the Festool setup worth investing in or am I better off sticking with the DeWalt option?

 

[mino]

From those:

Install driver: CXS/TSX, just get it. There is no point "waiting for updated".
(If) there is ever gonna be a major update, it is unlikely it will become a significantly better installation driver than it already is. There is a reason Festool changed the batteries 3 times by now, starting with NiCD, yet the CXS design is essentially the same for 2 decades and counting. They have tuned what could be tuned by now.

Impact: I would stick with Dewalt or M18 here, whichever platform you keep on having. There is no game-changing ability in the TiD. Go for one of the smaller/ligher ones.

Medium: This is the real place for a TPC, if you are not sure, get it and you can return. You will love the 3600 top speed ... and end up keeping it.

Raw power drill: For hobby use, TPC will do here well, no point in another heavy duty drill.

At same, I would still advise for TPC + T18 Easy simply for the financials (in the US market). In the T18 Easy has such a deal that you get an additional great drill almost for free and a secondary drill is always welcome to keep that second/third bit in.

The key message, repeating myself:
The CXS/TSX is a unique tool on the market. Plenty of threads on it.
This from someone who made the mistake of getting a used C12 set instead of a new CXS set and regretted it very much.

Yes, it is worth it to get into the 18V Festool battery platform. Some of the tools are unique on the market and well worth it even economically. Also, the batteries are very high quality, lasting decades for a hobby user.

No, you cannot consolidate all your tools on it. Festool does not make non-major tools. Get the tools which are most used for you from Festool for ergonomics/quality. Rest ger on a secondary (ideally cheaper) platform.

 

[Paul_HKI]

I had the CXS and TXS.  Great compact units, surprisingly powerful, light and long lasting.  Mine were close on 10 years old before I realised I had to draw a line somewhere on the number of drills I had around the place. 

I'd suggest you look at the following combination:

TiD18
C18 and/or T18 (regular or 'easy' flavoring)
TPC 18

If you don't want to use Centrotec, you don't have to.  Even the basic C/T/TPC versions come with a very high quality jacobs style keyless chuck as standard.  The Centrotec bit holder for regular hex bits is also good.  Strong magnet, durable and true running.  I can't fault it, although I've really enjoyed using Centrotec bits once I got over the price of the installation set. 

I had a whole pile of drills and combos before.  10.8v Metabo compacts, Panasonic 14.4v combos and a few Festools of various age/generations. 

I'm now down to a TiD 18, C18, T18 and the PDC 18/4. 

I have the offset and right angle chucks so the C/T18's do every installation type job without any issues, and they're both ergonomic and fairly lightweight with the 3.1Ah batteries.  You could also go for the 4Ah batteries if you prefer.  Most of the time it's just the C and T 18's that are out on the workbench.  A really great pairing.

And naturally, they'll all work with any of the 18V batteries, so I can throw a 5.2Ah on and use that too if required.

That absolute simplicity when it comes to batteries/chargers for all of my cordless drills is great.  It was also the realisation that while I liked the TXS/CXS models, when mainly working around my own workshop and home it made no sense to obsess about the weight/space it saved compared to a regular combo drill/driver.  If I was running hundreds of fasteners each day, or lugging my tools up and down flights of stairs or across building complexes, then sure.  But at home, the C18, T18 and TiD18 are all light enough and with the chuck options, I've yet to find a place I simply can't drive a screw or drill a hole.

If you want to simplify, and get a dependable and ergonomic drill/driver setup, I just don't see anything bad about the Festool option.  The price, well, that is what it is. 

 

[Coen]

Well, sometimes it's just easier to get what's available in the same platform... for the sake of not having yet another type of charger and battery

 

[JINRO]

I have had my TPC for about a month now. It actually looks like a modern drill, unlike the previous PDC design.

It feels pretty heavy and well built. Gears are easy to switch and the percussion mode is good for some light duty stuff.

It feels great in the hand, but I think it’s quite heavy for everyday screw driver. I mostly use mine for drilling holes through framing members and plywoods. It does the job fairly well, much better than the C18. The kickback function can be quite annoying sometimes with bigger hole saws.

I was hoping it could push 1” paddle bits on 4th speed, but it doesn’t have enough power. It just can’t compare to m18 Milwaukee in terms of power. The other day I have tried it with a 1 3/8” auger bit and it couldn’t even go half way through a 2x4, even on 1st gear.

The TID is nothing special in my opinion. I have had many impact drills ant the best thing about it is how it feels in the hand. I much prefer Milwaukee’s surge drivers.

I was hoping new TPC with improved power to be around M18. I guess Festool is more focused for precision rather than power.  I love my Surge and will skip on TID then. Thanks!

 

[tomktest]

I was hoping new TPC with improved power to be around M18. I guess Festool is more focused for precision rather than power.  I love my Surge and will skip on TID then. Thanks!

That Gen 3 M18 drill has never left me wanting for more power. My issue is that it isn't a pleasure to use so the thing sits and collects dust. It's more of an untamed beast. The same is true for the Gen3 M18 impact - it's too powerful for small to mid-size (less than 4 inches) fasteners.

One of the great things about the surge is that it is less powerful and thus easier to use. The big caveat with it is there's a ceiling to what it can handle and once you hit that point you are done. It won't do Tapcons, large lags, or medium to large drills. This is where I was hoping for the TID to be somewhere in the middle even if it isn't as quiet.

 

[elfick]

This is some great feedback thank you.

If Festool ever updates the CXS/TXS I will give it a try.

1. Installation driver
2. Impact driver
3. Mid-size drill (optional)
4. Heavy duty drill
------------------------
5. Rotary hammer

Festool Setup

1. Installation: TXS
2. Impact: TID 18
3. Mid-Size: T18
4: Heavy Duty: TPC

Pros: Better quality, more refined, quieter, better ergonomics, chuck options, systainers

So is the refinement of the Festool setup worth investing in or am I better off sticking with the DeWalt option?

I think you are pretty much spot on here. I'm just going to make a few additions...

As others have said, I wouldn't bother waiting for an update on the CXS/TXS. My CXS is easily the most used tool I have. Even with my oldest batteries, the battery life is more than acceptable and it doesn't need any more power for what it is designed to do. I have 2 and I'm thinking about getting a 3rd to keep inside the house so I don't have to walk out to the garage to get one of my others.

For my use, I would group the drills thusly:
General Use:
  Driver: CXS
  Drill: C18

Heavy Duty:
  Driver: TID18
  Drill: TPC

I wouldn't even include the hammer drill in this list as, in my mind, it's a specific tool with a specific job that doesn't overlap these categories or tools.

 

[JINRO]

I was hoping new TPC with improved power to be around M18. I guess Festool is more focused for precision rather than power.  I love my Surge and will skip on TID then. Thanks!

That Gen 3 M18 drill has never left me wanting for more power. My issue is that it isn't a pleasure to use so the thing sits and collects dust. It's more of an untamed beast. The same is true for the Gen3 M18 impact - it's too powerful for small to mid-size (less than 4 inches) fasteners.

One of the great things about the surge is that it is less powerful and thus easier to use. The big caveat with it is there's a ceiling to what it can handle and once you hit that point you are done. It won't do Tapcons, large lags, or medium to large drills. This is where I was hoping for the TID to be somewhere in the middle even if it isn't as quiet.

I'm totally with you on M18 drill and impact. I almost turned my wrist using a drill with Forstner bit
I also have bosch drill but I don't use it as it's too heavy/bulky. 

I'm hoping TPC/TID is somewhere in middle which can handle enough power yet precise at the same time.  I have them in my cart, just need to check out lol

 

[Coen]

I almost turned my wrist using a drill with Forstner bit

One more reason I got the Bosch 18v (GSR 18v-60) drill; it stops immediately if the body of the drill starts to rotate. Was very helpful with cutting 76mm holes above my head in 1930's plywood. Now the wrist thing is only an issue with the 12V drills  [tongue]. Although their lower-end 18v drills don't have that feature either. Only the -60, -85 (=110) and -150 have it.

 

[tomktest]

Well I started my "interview" process.

I'm not too sure about this new DeWalt. Size is good. Weight is good. Light is nice and bright. New PowerStack batteries are tiny. They did seem to fix the bit wobble quite a bit compared to the DCF887. The speed selector is a physical switch which is good for knowing which speed you are on without looking but makes the tool feel cheap.

Speed 1 is interesting as it completely prevents the driver from impacting at all so it's really more for prethreaded fasteners. The driver suffers from the same problem as the Gen 3 M18 in that it's too powerful. I struggled to find a screw big enough to get it to impact into a 2x4... had to jump up to one of those washer lags.

Now.. the sound of the thing is pretty terrible. Scared my dog away and one of my kids says I can't keep it because of the racket. Maybe something is wrong with mine have a listen to the attached video / MP3.

I think I am going to check out the Festool options in person next.

[attachurl=1]

[attachurl=2]

 

[tomktest]

I'm totally with you on M18 drill and impact. I almost turned my wrist using a drill with Forstner bit
I also have bosch drill but I don't use it as it's too heavy/bulky. 

I'm hoping TPC/TID is somewhere in middle which can handle enough power yet precise at the same time.  I have them in my cart, just need to check out lol

JIRNO - have you pulled the trigger on this yet? I can't find a single dealer within driving range where I can get my hands on the TPC after they start shipping tomorrow. I could order online but return shipping is getting expensive. I find it hard to believe there's no Festool mega dealer around here that stocks everything. I had high hopes for when Farm and Fleet started carrying Festool but all of their stock is aged and I doubt Festool will be there much longer.