arso_bg
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Is there something wrong with my new Festool TS-75? Any help is welcome!
- Thread starter arso_bg
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arso_bg
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Tom Gensmer said:
Hi Tom
I fully agree with your remark that it would be much more correct to measure the carbide teeth of the saw blade. Here is the setup – picture 12 and picture 13. The results of the test are shown in picture 14.
According to me the results clearly show that the saw blade is warped on one side. I am not sure what is the precise term for this.
The question that remains still open for me is: is this the only problem that I have with the saw? [scared]
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arso_bg
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Hi everybody!
I understand that you are already sick of my tests and very soon will stop reading my post. But this is the last one that I am doing. I borrowed a different saw blade from a friend. It's a general purpose one, 210/30 with 36 teeth
I mounted the blade in the saw and marked one tooth as a starting point. The setup is exactly the same as in pictures 12 and 13. Then I measured the tooths and wrote down the data. This was the first test.
Afterward, I rotated the blade so that the first tooth is located exactly at the opposite side of the spindle. During the second test, I will measure the same side of the blade, starting at the same tooth and rotating the blade in the same direction. Everything will be the same as during the first test, it only will start at a different point of the spindle.
My assumption here is that if the spindle with the clamping flanges are rotating perfectly in one plane then during the second test I should get figures that are similar to those of the first test.
Unfortunately, the figures were totally different! Picture 15
In the first case while rotating the blade the tooths are moving away from the indicator and that is why the values are positive. In the second case while rotating the blade they move in a direction to the indicator and that is why the values are negative.
Do you think that this can be proof that there is a problem also with the spindle/ clamping flanges?
I understand that you are already sick of my tests and very soon will stop reading my post. But this is the last one that I am doing. I borrowed a different saw blade from a friend. It's a general purpose one, 210/30 with 36 teeth
I mounted the blade in the saw and marked one tooth as a starting point. The setup is exactly the same as in pictures 12 and 13. Then I measured the tooths and wrote down the data. This was the first test.
Afterward, I rotated the blade so that the first tooth is located exactly at the opposite side of the spindle. During the second test, I will measure the same side of the blade, starting at the same tooth and rotating the blade in the same direction. Everything will be the same as during the first test, it only will start at a different point of the spindle.
My assumption here is that if the spindle with the clamping flanges are rotating perfectly in one plane then during the second test I should get figures that are similar to those of the first test.
Unfortunately, the figures were totally different! Picture 15
In the first case while rotating the blade the tooths are moving away from the indicator and that is why the values are positive. In the second case while rotating the blade they move in a direction to the indicator and that is why the values are negative.
Do you think that this can be proof that there is a problem also with the spindle/ clamping flanges?
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Tom the Remodeler
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Hi Arso,
There are a couple things going on here that could potentially be throwing off your measurements.
1: When you're swapping blades, are you removing the TS-75 from the CMS plate, or is the saw permanently mounted in the CMS?
2. I see you've positioned your indicator base on the CMS sliding table. This would be necessary for setting the toe-in/out for the sliding table, but is not useful (and might be detrimental) for checking the arbor on your saw. I'd suggest clamping or taping the indicator base to the CMS table so you're got a more solid reference point.
3. In terms of toe-in on the slider, it looks like you're close to a 1mm over 210mm, which I'd say is pretty aggressive. I'd aim for closer to 0.05mm to 0.1mm on a stationary machine, though I acknowledge that may be hard to hit on portable equipment.
4. Good that you checked another blade. Since you're still getting variable readings, it's still possible it's a blade issue, or it could be saw related.
Ultimately, I suppose the real question to ask here is: "How does it cut?" If you're getting nice cuts with no burning then I'd say "it ain't broke, so don't fix it". If you're getting a lot of vibration and/or unsatisfactory cut quality, then it may be worth trying a second saw.
I did audition a TS75 in a CMS module back in 2012, and while it definitely had a gee-wiz "Cool" factor, I found it to be challenging to keep it in alignment (setting up/breaking down daily), and determined it would not meet my needs as a precision crosscutting solution. I ultimately sold the CMS kit, and used the proceeds and the sale of my Kapex to pay for a ERIKA saw, and haven't looked back.
Good luck, curious to hear what direction you ultimately go.
There are a couple things going on here that could potentially be throwing off your measurements.
1: When you're swapping blades, are you removing the TS-75 from the CMS plate, or is the saw permanently mounted in the CMS?
2. I see you've positioned your indicator base on the CMS sliding table. This would be necessary for setting the toe-in/out for the sliding table, but is not useful (and might be detrimental) for checking the arbor on your saw. I'd suggest clamping or taping the indicator base to the CMS table so you're got a more solid reference point.
3. In terms of toe-in on the slider, it looks like you're close to a 1mm over 210mm, which I'd say is pretty aggressive. I'd aim for closer to 0.05mm to 0.1mm on a stationary machine, though I acknowledge that may be hard to hit on portable equipment.
4. Good that you checked another blade. Since you're still getting variable readings, it's still possible it's a blade issue, or it could be saw related.
Ultimately, I suppose the real question to ask here is: "How does it cut?" If you're getting nice cuts with no burning then I'd say "it ain't broke, so don't fix it". If you're getting a lot of vibration and/or unsatisfactory cut quality, then it may be worth trying a second saw.
I did audition a TS75 in a CMS module back in 2012, and while it definitely had a gee-wiz "Cool" factor, I found it to be challenging to keep it in alignment (setting up/breaking down daily), and determined it would not meet my needs as a precision crosscutting solution. I ultimately sold the CMS kit, and used the proceeds and the sale of my Kapex to pay for a ERIKA saw, and haven't looked back.
Good luck, curious to hear what direction you ultimately go.
arso_bg
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Hi Tom,
Thank you once again for your invaluable remarks and guidance notes!
I will try to go through all the points that you mentioned.
1. The saw is permanently mounted in the CMS with the cover removed so I only change the blade or its position.
2. YES, I have positioned the indicator base on the CMS sliding table, but I (at least I try to do it) put it back in the same position with respect to the saw blade for every single test. I also made some tests with the indicator base clamped to the CMS table but this did not change much the figures!
3. I started with the intention to measure the toe-in on the sliding table but actually dived into the question - Is it the saw blade or the arbor in the last few days? At least for the time being I find it unacceptable to have a kerf width on a crosscut of 2.97 mm with a saw blade that has only 2.4 mm width - pictures 8 and 9. And last but not least there are slight vibrations when the saw is on and especially during the start/stop of the saw.
How does it cut – this is really the main question and I will have to make some more tests in this direction in the coming days. I intend to use the TS75 in the CMS for rip and crosscuts mainly but I also had in mind to use it for finer work like cutting tenons etc. I am afraid that with this performance I will be not able to use the saw for finer work.
Mafell ERIKA sounds great! Which one do you have?
I also many times looked at the ERIKA 85 but as a Bulgarian DIY-er and pensioner, it can be only a dream for me. There are also some other constrains. My workshop is very small. The room measures 3.25m x 3.25m and I have a lot of stuff around the walls, so in the center, there is a room only for an MFT+CMS-VB. I have recently put my MFT+CMC on a cabinet with wheels so that I can move them around the shop. This gives me easy access from every side of the table + the possibility to level perfectly the MFT to the CMS. The TS 75 and the sliding table which I bought last month should finish the setup. And here is where I run into this TS 75 problem.
Thank you once again for your invaluable remarks and guidance notes!
I will try to go through all the points that you mentioned.
1. The saw is permanently mounted in the CMS with the cover removed so I only change the blade or its position.
2. YES, I have positioned the indicator base on the CMS sliding table, but I (at least I try to do it) put it back in the same position with respect to the saw blade for every single test. I also made some tests with the indicator base clamped to the CMS table but this did not change much the figures!
3. I started with the intention to measure the toe-in on the sliding table but actually dived into the question - Is it the saw blade or the arbor in the last few days? At least for the time being I find it unacceptable to have a kerf width on a crosscut of 2.97 mm with a saw blade that has only 2.4 mm width - pictures 8 and 9. And last but not least there are slight vibrations when the saw is on and especially during the start/stop of the saw.
How does it cut – this is really the main question and I will have to make some more tests in this direction in the coming days. I intend to use the TS75 in the CMS for rip and crosscuts mainly but I also had in mind to use it for finer work like cutting tenons etc. I am afraid that with this performance I will be not able to use the saw for finer work.
Mafell ERIKA sounds great! Which one do you have?
I also many times looked at the ERIKA 85 but as a Bulgarian DIY-er and pensioner, it can be only a dream for me. There are also some other constrains. My workshop is very small. The room measures 3.25m x 3.25m and I have a lot of stuff around the walls, so in the center, there is a room only for an MFT+CMS-VB. I have recently put my MFT+CMC on a cabinet with wheels so that I can move them around the shop. This gives me easy access from every side of the table + the possibility to level perfectly the MFT to the CMS. The TS 75 and the sliding table which I bought last month should finish the setup. And here is where I run into this TS 75 problem.
arso_bg
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Hi everybody!
I went today to Festool with my TS 75. Very nice people! They welcomed me very friendly and we spend a couple of hours talking and making some tests. They showed me their new products like TS 60 KEBQ and TSV 60 KEBQ. What can I say - awesome products!
Concerning my issue with the TS 75 they came with their own saw and we made some tests in plywood and MDF. It appeared that their saw cuts just a little bit better than mine. The kerf width of their saw with a standard Festool blade (2.4 mm) was about 2.7 mm while the kerf width of my saw was about 2.95. So the difference was approximately 0.2 -0.25 mm. They also tried to convince me that the TS75 being a bigger saw is not intended and/or suitable for fine work!!!
I somehow still can't get over the fact that I have paid so much money for a Festool saw which should be suitable only to cut my firewood! :-\
Could you please folks measure the kerf width of your TS 75 in materials like plywood, MDF, or pine with a standard Festool blade (36 tooths). What is the kerf width? 2.5 mm, 2.6 mm, or maybe better or worse?
Thanks in advance for any contribution!
I went today to Festool with my TS 75. Very nice people! They welcomed me very friendly and we spend a couple of hours talking and making some tests. They showed me their new products like TS 60 KEBQ and TSV 60 KEBQ. What can I say - awesome products!
Concerning my issue with the TS 75 they came with their own saw and we made some tests in plywood and MDF. It appeared that their saw cuts just a little bit better than mine. The kerf width of their saw with a standard Festool blade (2.4 mm) was about 2.7 mm while the kerf width of my saw was about 2.95. So the difference was approximately 0.2 -0.25 mm. They also tried to convince me that the TS75 being a bigger saw is not intended and/or suitable for fine work!!!
I somehow still can't get over the fact that I have paid so much money for a Festool saw which should be suitable only to cut my firewood! :-\
Could you please folks measure the kerf width of your TS 75 in materials like plywood, MDF, or pine with a standard Festool blade (36 tooths). What is the kerf width? 2.5 mm, 2.6 mm, or maybe better or worse?
Thanks in advance for any contribution!
Michael Kellough
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Did a quick test and was puzzled because the kerf is less than expected. Kerf is 2.55mm.
But checked the blade and its the aluminum cutting blade not the regular wood blade. [tongue]
But checked the blade and its the aluminum cutting blade not the regular wood blade. [tongue]
mino
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If this helps, that statement, whoever made it, is pure bull. Do not pay a second of attention to it.arso_bg said:
While the TS75 is an older design, so the shaft assembly may not be as-precise as with a TS60 as the tech progressed (a bit, not a big bit) since then that has absolutely nothing to do with the "bigger saw" aspec. Nada.
That said, if you need absolute precision, get a couple blades which have a smaller diameter - by the what physics works the smaller a blade the more stable it is compared to a bigger diameter blade.
E.g. there are 2,6/1,8x30 40 WZ blades from CMT in 160, 165, 170 and 180 mm diamaters that should fit and be better when seeking absolute precision. I would get one at 160mm and check out if it helps for a start.
In general, look for blades which have as thick a "disc" (not kerf) as possible and as small diameter as possible.
