Isn't it about time U.S. went metric?

[AlexThePalex]

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[vkumar]

Wasn't the Challenger disaster due to some f...-up between metric and imperial. Or was it some mars-lander?

It was the Mars orbiter. It was JPL /NASA designing in metric  units and Lockeheed Martin designing in English units. They lost a $125 million orbiter. This is very vivid in my mind as I was a founder of an engineering startup efunda that was developing a units calculator called unitsiq .

 

[Kev]

Been reading this for a couple of days now.  It would appear that there are/were 2 simultaneous threads about nearly the same thing - USA going metric and Arrogance of Festool.  I find these both somewhat amusing and a little alarming.  Take Texas for example - the 12th largest economy in the world, and that is only 1 of 50 sovereign States within the USA.  Granted Germany is probably still the 4th largest economy - bolstered greatly by USA sales of Mercedes Benz, VW & all that they own, BMW, and others including Festool, but I digress.  The great majority of teaching and technical publications emanating from the USA are done using imperial measurements.  Most USA citizens are not fluent in metric, most USA business are conducted using Imperial measurements.  Since there is a great pool of NAINA Festool products, one could surmise that Festool spends a good deal of resources in making "changes" in their products to be compatible and compliant with USA requirements.  Why then is it too much to ask for what is sold here to be marked in Imperial measurements?  Why should we, spending our money, bend to a "foreign" system, and some possible "arrogance"?  My BMW's and Infinity's - both made in native metric &/or Shakkan-ho metrics - come to the USA with Imperial metrics. 

Just my $0.02 (not Euros - I don't even have a Euro symbol on my Japanese-based computer keyboard).

The next couple of decades are going to be interesting to watch as the US digests and adjusts to it's changing position in the global economy.

Too much to ask? ... maybe not. Pay extra for it? I can here the complaints already!!

In the mean time I'll have a quick chat with the other seven billion people on the planet and see if they wouldn't mind terribly switching back to inches ... yes, it's harder and inconvenient and they'll have to change all of their stuff, but it's for a very good cause [wink] I'll chip in with switching everything to 110V for good measure. After all, what was the rest of the planet thinking???

 

[SittingElf]

I totally disagree with the idea that the USA, being the megapower that we are, arrogantly continue to stay on the imperial system, while the rest of the world has STANDARDIZED on the metric system....save two other countries of no import.

We have already missed THREE supposed deadlines for converting our measurement system to metric. It's time to standardize and synchronize with the REST of the world! 

Furthermore, our failure to do so as was previously mandated, is a captulation, and an absolute failure of our education system that has aggressively resisted having to teach an entirely new system of measure.  Other countries have done so...and admittedly with some diffculty, but a "10" system is far more easy once learned.

I personally am in favor of a complete conversion in the USA...by law if necessary, and the companies that have to retool and re-design their products can just suck it up!  Time to join the rest of the world! [mad]

Cheers,
Frank

 

[Kev]

I totally disagree with the idea that the USA, being the megapower that we are, arrogantly continue to stay on the imperial system, while the rest of the world has STANDARDIZED on the metric system....save two other countries of no import.

We have already missed THREE supposed deadlines for converting our measurement system to metric. It's time to standardize and synchronize with the REST of the world! 

Furthermore, our failure to do so as was previously mandated, is a captulation, and an absolute failure of our education system that has aggressively resisted having to teach an entirely new system of measure.  Other countries have done so...and admittedly with some diffculty, but a "10" system is far more easy once learned.

I personally am in favor of a complete conversion in the USA...by law if necessary, and the companies that have to retool and re-design their products can just suck it up!  Time to join the rest of the world! [mad]

Cheers,
Frank

Where's that "like" button when you want one??

Seth ...

Peter ...

 

[Paul G]

I totally disagree with the idea that the USA, being the megapower that we are, arrogantly continue to stay on the imperial system, while the rest of the world has STANDARDIZED on the metric system....save two other countries of no import.

We have already missed THREE supposed deadlines for converting our measurement system to metric. It's time to standardize and synchronize with the REST of the world! 

Furthermore, our failure to do so as was previously mandated, is a captulation, and an absolute failure of our education system that has aggressively resisted having to teach an entirely new system of measure.  Other countries have done so...and admittedly with some diffculty, but a "10" system is far more easy once learned.

I personally am in favor of a complete conversion in the USA...by law if necessary, and the companies that have to retool and re-design their products can just suck it up!  Time to join the rest of the world! [mad]

Cheers,
Frank

I'll choose liberty in this case. But FTR, I have nothing against metric and it is taught in the schools here, has been since the 70s at least. But then you go take a driving test and learn all the laws that say stuff like needing to stop so many feet from an intersection, or drive a particular MPH in certain zones, etc. then you go to add something to your house and discover all the codes are in inches and feet. Add a new fence here and the height limit is 6' without a variance, unless it's set back 10' from the property line. And the new shed must be no larger than 120 sqft, no higher than 7' and no roof overhang more than 6". And that new waste pipe needs to be about 3' deep, with a certain diameter in inches depending on the connections. And the list goes on. Govt can't even change itself in this regards and lest we forget, the govt is (or should be) a reflection of the people. Hence this topic ultimately becomes a political discussion outside the bounds of this forum.

 

[Stephen B]

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But that (the Moon landing) was in 1969. A lot has happened since. In 1969 Australia was imperial too, just on the verge of going metric with measurement.

Interesting that this thread also started yesterday -
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/switching-to-metric/msg400056/#msg400056

 

[jacko9]

It should be noted that over the past 30 years the United States has been off-shoring most of their manufacturing sector and the installed base of machinery in the USA is not being replaced or updated so converting to metric at factories that are being closed (or downsized) just doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Mr Heavy]

Personally `i'm happy using both systems, each for particular purposes.

Big measurements - imperial. I have no idea how far the sun is in Km. I don't care. The same with distances between cities, and road speed.

Roughing out human-scale stuff is best in inches - he's about five eleven makes much more immediate sense - to me - than spitting out a metric equivalent. Ditto pints and gallons - proper ones, that is, based on 20 Floz, not the cheapskate colonial 16oz knock-offs.

Where would the porn industry  be in metric? Totally stuffed, that's where.

"Oh!" she gasped, aroused in spite of herself at the sight of his 210 point 6 throbbing millimetres. "I need to lie down, my poor 30 point 4-8 centimetres are killing me!." His fingers 25 point 4 millimetred toward her...
He paused to switch the stereo on, and the warm tones of
1.609344 kilometres Davis's ethereal trumpet washed over her. "That jazz is so cool," she murmured.
"Celcius?" he asked, intrigued..

Human scale stuff in imperial, my choice. it works really well UNTIL improper fractions come in, and that's when we know we're using the wrong scales. Half and quarter inches are perfectly sensible. When you start with 23/64" and suchlike you're using the wrong scale, full stop.

Imperial measurements are based on body parts and the ergonomic derivations thereof - strides, feet, thumb joints, and work fine in that arena. I'm comfortable with chains, furlongs, rods, fathoms, hundredweight but I wouldn't dream of using them in real parlance other than ironically. They're nuts, frankly (though I still think in acres rather than hectares, for example.) and it's obvious that ten cricket pitches fit along the side of a square acre, which measures a furlong, a comfortable plough pull for one horse before turning. These are all pre-industrial revolution notions for people dealing with people - NOT people dealing with science, and that's the big difference. There's nothing wrong with human scaled thinking but you have to mix base 2, base 8, 12, 16, 20, 22, 28, 220, 1764 and God know how many others I haven't immediately thought of. I was perfectly happy with pounds, shillings, crowns, florins, bobs, tanners and thruppences but I'm also happy with decimal currency. It's not difficult. Look at how me measure time - bases 12, 7, 60. No-one bats an eyelid. There's logic in it, angles and such - thank you the Babylonians - and people rarely even think about what's going on there so it's clearly not a problem to compute in different bases.

Scientific measurements I'm perfectly happy in S.I. units because everything relates to everything else - except to human visualization. A cubic metre of water's mass relates to force, relates to temperature, relates to ... everything else. Going back to ergs and Amstrongs and GKWE.

Imperial measurements have some poetic beauty that would be difficult to see in any metric system, but for construction, technology, science, the metric system wins hands down. They're different. The stupidity all comes about from thinking they're just alternative translations. They're not. They exist in different cultural frameworks, neither better than the other but unfortunately, here in the U.K. they've legislated in one at the expense of the other. Road signs are still in miles, and miles per hour and news reports give distances in Km, and nobody knows what it actually means - like buying fuel in litres and thinking in terms of MPG and how many pints make you fall over. It's the forced imposition by idiot politicians assuming that the issue is an either/or one, missing the point entirely that they're not actually alternatives, they are parallel systems with different strengths.

addendum

Two things that should carry a sentence of life imprisonment.
1) Using cm as a unit of measurement. They're a failure that schoolteachers impose on kids and they're used purely as an attempt to replace the outlawed, human-scaled foot which the metric system was a so much "better" replacement than - except the hoi poloi couldn't visualize metric measurements, so needed a manageable unit to cope with the transition.

2) I'll get back on this later

 

[oldie]

It's about time that Festool offered all clocks / watches in metric. 

Richard (UK)
(edit:  missed a word out).
(2nd edit:  removed unnecessary words  [embarassed] ).

 

[Holmz]

The US did have a law about going metric in the early 70's.
It did not last long, when people acted like it was the spawn of all things evil, it was repealed.

 

[Birdhunter]

One of our friends had an electrician try to convince her that a 1/3 HP motor was more powerful than a 1/2 HP motor because, obviously, a 3 is bigger than a 2.

I'd bet that a tiny fraction of government school grads can do fractions.

Maybe, metric is better. I've switched.

 

[AlexThePalex]

missing the point entirely that they're not actually alternatives, they are parallel systems with different strengths.

They actually really are alternatives. Where one system is the evolution of the other.

There is just as much strength in imperial as the horse carriage is strong against a car.  Sure, the horse carriage is romantic, but for your daily business you're really better off with the latter.

If you simply stick to measuring you will not really see a difference between metric and imperial. But once you start doing calculations with those measurements, you will understand the benefit of metric.

 

[Paul G]

missing the point entirely that they're not actually alternatives, they are parallel systems with different strengths.

They actually really are alternatives. Where one system is the evolution of the other.

There is just as much strength in imperial as the horse carriage is strong against a car.  Sure, the horse carriage is romantic, but for your daily business you're really better off with the latter.

If you simply stick to measuring you will not really see a difference between metric and imperial. But once you start doing calculations with those measurements, you will understand the benefit of metric.

I do calcs in decimel inches just fine.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I do calcs in decimel inches just fine.

At some point you'll have to convert to another unit, like foot, yard or mile.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

I do calcs in decimel inches just fine.

At some point you'll have to convert to another unit, like foot, yard or mile.

Really? When?  [tongue]

Mixing units is a major no-no, even with the metric system. Architects do it with feet and inches, but that is one of the few exceptions because it has become so commonplace.

 

[Paul G]

I do calcs in decimel inches just fine.

At some point you'll have to convert to another unit, like foot, yard or mile.

In my work in commercial printing I don't have that need much, but if I did so what? Worse yet for me would be constantly needing to convert between metric and imperial, which is what would happen if I tried to go metric. While the rest of the world may be using metric my work doesn't. Clients order product in inches, vendors sell product mostly in imperial. In my woodworking/remodeling endeavors I go to Home Depot and all the tapes and rulers are in inches, product dimensions are in inches or feet, building codes are in imperial. It is what it is, working in metric makes it harder for me to interract in the world around me. Doesn't matter what is better per se, better is what works easiest in my given situation. If I were building furniture in my closed silo I'd consider making the switch in that environment but that isn't me, at least not yet.

BTW, technically the US doesn't use Imperial, it's different than the actual "U.S. customary units" but is easier to type and gets the point across.

 

[Kev]

Wouldn't it be funny if the US mandated EVERYTHING to be in their old units of measure ... I can just see the proud Mercedes owner driving down the road with a "12.7 Pint V8" bad on it [big grin]

... yeh, I know - you'd want the displacement converted to cubic inches, but that no fun.

 

[jacko9]

Wouldn't it be nice if Europe had a standard for plumbing?  I mean every where you go the toilets and showers have different mechanisms  [wink]

 

[Cheese]

I do calcs in decimel inches just fine.

[thumbs up] Same here, coming from an engineering background, the manufacturing world revolves around decimal numbers, (except for plant & office layout). Take a look at your machine tools like lathes, milling machines and surface grinders. The feed wheels are all in .001" or in .0005" graduations, not mm and certainly not 1/64 ths.

So, if I have to work in a fraction like 19/64", I just convert it to .2969" and move forward. I can add or subtract easily and if I need to place it back into imperial fractions because I'm using a tape measure, I can do that also. Easy Peasy

This stainless scale works sweet...used in the majority of engineering design firms. 1/32" & 1/64" markings on the front, .10" & .100" on the back, fully flexible and can be bent around a corner.

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