It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?
- Thread starter Runhard
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butzla
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From one who has a ss pcs with the sliding table, I'd go for the hammer. For the fact that you haven't factored in the cost of the sliding table which is $1k, that makes the Hammer considerably less expensive.
I love my Sawstop and have zero regrets with getting either the pcs model or the sliding table. I spent $5k on this setup. But if you feel the pcs won't do it for you and you need the industrial model, then for sure, go with the Hammer.
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I love my Sawstop and have zero regrets with getting either the pcs model or the sliding table. I spent $5k on this setup. But if you feel the pcs won't do it for you and you need the industrial model, then for sure, go with the Hammer.
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Thanks for the feedback everyone.
I still haven't decided what I want to buy but now I have another concern, I'm concerned with moisture in my garage. It snowed a few inches yesterday and when we brought our vehicles into the garage I realized that this could be a problem. I had thought about this issue before and I was hoping to have the floor epoxied, but that will have to wait until spring or so, and to install something for HVAC. I may start another topic asking for advise and ideas for a garage shop that is also used to park vehicles.
I still haven't decided what I want to buy but now I have another concern, I'm concerned with moisture in my garage. It snowed a few inches yesterday and when we brought our vehicles into the garage I realized that this could be a problem. I had thought about this issue before and I was hoping to have the floor epoxied, but that will have to wait until spring or so, and to install something for HVAC. I may start another topic asking for advise and ideas for a garage shop that is also used to park vehicles.
Snow in your garage is not a problem. When there is snow on the ground, or in your garage, the air is very dry. Snow might actually help the air in your garage in the winter because it will add some useful moisture to the air. Keep the wood in the garage from getting too dry and cracking. Summer and its humidity is the concern. Run a dehumidifier in your garage and you will be fine. Make sure the seals on the door are as good as you can get too.
Holmz
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JimH2 said:
More like Pandering to people that have the CMS for that reason.
If one rally needs an "upstairs saw" there are the Erikas and the CMS, and all the other light contractors saws.
Only one of the these (IMO) would be considered really decent, but all would cut wood.
For a real saw, I would take a Hammer or Felder in a heart beat.
Even though I know this, I will be getting an Erika-85 because of portability, shipping to my location, and the smallness of my work area.
WarnerConstCo.
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I like short stroke format saws. I have had two Martin t75s, great saws, I have a scmi and holzher 10'6" stroke sliders and a Fortis short stroke.
The two big saws are worthless for anything other than sheet goods.
The two big saws are worthless for anything other than sheet goods.
johnbro
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I'm on my 3rd TS: first a Craftsman contractor saw, then a Powermatic 66, which was truly an outstanding cabinet saw. Recently I said a sad goodbye to the PM and picked up a Sawstop PCS 3hp, 36" fence. I was concerned that I was trading cut quality and accuracy for the safety features.
Not true.
The Sawstop is a better saw than the 66 in every measure. The dust collection is outstanding. The cut quality is terrific. The motor is smooth and vibration free. The optional mobile base is the easiest to use of any I've found. The (so far unnecessary) adjustments on the saw are much easier to make than on the Powermatic. It's just a thoroughly well-thought out saw--I actually leave the guard on, it's that good! And I don't have to worry about it biting me or grown kids. I looked at the Industrial model, but for the extra $1000 I couldn't see that there were benefits over the PCS that I would be able to notice or take advantage of. However, whether you buy a Hammer or a SS you will have an excellent TS.
Not true.
The Sawstop is a better saw than the 66 in every measure. The dust collection is outstanding. The cut quality is terrific. The motor is smooth and vibration free. The optional mobile base is the easiest to use of any I've found. The (so far unnecessary) adjustments on the saw are much easier to make than on the Powermatic. It's just a thoroughly well-thought out saw--I actually leave the guard on, it's that good! And I don't have to worry about it biting me or grown kids. I looked at the Industrial model, but for the extra $1000 I couldn't see that there were benefits over the PCS that I would be able to notice or take advantage of. However, whether you buy a Hammer or a SS you will have an excellent TS.
johnbro
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Well I wrote my thoughts about my SS two nights ago and 15 minutes ago I stuck my thumb in my still-spinning blade. I had shut off the motor after a thin rip cut and the blade wasn't quite stopped when I stupidly contacted it (the guard was off for the cut). No damage at all to my thumb and the blade is fine but it fired the brake cartridge. I have no doubt if it had been my old saw I would have sliced my thumb open and would be headed to the ER right now with a pissed-off wife driving in a building snow storm.
First time in 30 years of using power saws to touch a moving blade. Just lucky I guess.
First time in 30 years of using power saws to touch a moving blade. Just lucky I guess.
Well, I really do not need to buy the saw right away so I have some more time to think about it. The Felder sale has me looking hard at their offerings but I am still looking hard at the sawstop too. I mentioned this before, but here is a picture of what happened to my brother (CAUTION)...
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Kev
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I'm keeping an eye on this topic with great interest as I'm anticipating have a shop that can hold "real" tools in a few months and table saw, bandsaw and planer/thicknesser finally be in my grasp.
The more I think about the various tasks, the more I think there's no single right answer between a slider and a traditional cabinet saw. My bias is to get a slider first and know that the sliding section can be locked I'll assume it'll perform most tasks I could dream up. That said, I can still visualise a traditional cabinet saw format (a highly accurate variant) set up with various jigs, sleds, etc for all the exceptional stuff one might try on a table saw!
One format I'm thinking I'll avoid is the docking saws like the Erika and Presario ... I'm incredibly careful with a saw, but there's something about a docking movement that has me visualising holding a piece flat and steady and pulling the blade through my hand [scared] [eek] (that's just my own paranoia and that last photo).
The more I think about the various tasks, the more I think there's no single right answer between a slider and a traditional cabinet saw. My bias is to get a slider first and know that the sliding section can be locked I'll assume it'll perform most tasks I could dream up. That said, I can still visualise a traditional cabinet saw format (a highly accurate variant) set up with various jigs, sleds, etc for all the exceptional stuff one might try on a table saw!
One format I'm thinking I'll avoid is the docking saws like the Erika and Presario ... I'm incredibly careful with a saw, but there's something about a docking movement that has me visualising holding a piece flat and steady and pulling the blade through my hand [scared] [eek] (that's just my own paranoia and that last photo).
Kev
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Arvid said:
[member=62357]Arvid[/member] that's harsh.
I'm not a SawStop fan, but that's due to the underlying politics of the guy behind it .. I'd never begrudge someone wanting an extra safety feature if they wanted to pay for it.
There's a much bigger problem with safety, be it slider, cabinet saw or pizza oven !!! People can buy things that may hurt them and there's very little in place to ensure that the consumer knows how to operate the equipment safely or knows where to access material to learn appropriate safety.
This is Runhard's Hammer or SawStop decision making thread, so I don't want to hijack it. Let's just leave it at that.
Arvid,Arvid said:
Statements like this ignore the fact that "smelly stuff happens". Yes, people do stupid things. But many times, even when they know and follow all the safety rules, the unexpected happens. Assuming that all accidents happen because of a user doing something stupid is not even remotely reasonable.
For example, while remodeling my bathroom, I used a belt sander to sand down some old wall studs prior to installing drywall. To say I was careful would be a massive understatement. But one evening (after a long day) while sanding a stud, my wife yelled "Dinner's ready!" That distracted my attention enough that I hit my left middle finger with the moving, 36 grit belt. And sanded off a large chunk of my left middle finger.
Having hit veins and arteries, that finger bled for two hours and was incredibly painful. The recovery took three months of hospital visits, and there is a still a scar and the some loss of feeling.
Like I said, "smelly stuff happens". I bought a Sawstop PCS to help avoid permanent damage when that smelly stuff does happen.
Dan.
butzla
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[member=13588]Runhard[/member] , I changed my recommendation after seeing your brother's hand, there's only one choice for you: Sawstop. I've been working with tablesaws for over 25 years and like other's have said, I'm careful and therefor still have all my digits.
There are other variables and situations where just being careful doesn't apply. My wife's 80+ yr old uncle had dementia and for whatever reason, decided to sneak out of the house, down to his barn to cut some plywood on his old contractor's saw. He got a kickback where the plywood flew up in his face and he reacted and pushed it back down, this time with his hand over the blade and cut 3 fingers off. That's what got me thinking about a SS. I have the 3 hp PCS and it is nicely setup and have no regrets about not getting the Industrial version:
Here's a pretty convincing promotional YouTube video:
Finally, I've never had a better experience assembling a power tool. They color coded blister packs for all the hardware combined with the nicely bounded owners manual made it a true pleasure. Steve Johnson made a promotional video for Highland Woodworking a while back and though a bit cheesy, he captured the essence of the experience. That, combined with the fact that I didn't want to wait months to receive my saw from across the pond sealed the deal for me.
There are other variables and situations where just being careful doesn't apply. My wife's 80+ yr old uncle had dementia and for whatever reason, decided to sneak out of the house, down to his barn to cut some plywood on his old contractor's saw. He got a kickback where the plywood flew up in his face and he reacted and pushed it back down, this time with his hand over the blade and cut 3 fingers off. That's what got me thinking about a SS. I have the 3 hp PCS and it is nicely setup and have no regrets about not getting the Industrial version:
Here's a pretty convincing promotional YouTube video:
Finally, I've never had a better experience assembling a power tool. They color coded blister packs for all the hardware combined with the nicely bounded owners manual made it a true pleasure. Steve Johnson made a promotional video for Highland Woodworking a while back and though a bit cheesy, he captured the essence of the experience. That, combined with the fact that I didn't want to wait months to receive my saw from across the pond sealed the deal for me.
If you are still considering a 'european slider' you should also consider a MiniMax/SCM
Equal if not better quality to a Hammer and their SCM line matches up with Felder
One advantage of the MiniMax over the Hammer is the size of the slider. If your looking for something smaller than the full size (8' +) slider, they over a 5.5' slider which can still cross cut a 48" sheet of ply. I believe the smaller Hammer slider can't
Also Hammer likes to spend a lot of money on advertising, fancy catalogs, etc - MiniMax puts their money into their machines and when you price them, please note they include most of the 'options' that Hammer charges for extra
http://www.scmgroupna.com/en/produc....c884/sliding-table-saws.896/sc-2-classic.706
Equal if not better quality to a Hammer and their SCM line matches up with Felder
One advantage of the MiniMax over the Hammer is the size of the slider. If your looking for something smaller than the full size (8' +) slider, they over a 5.5' slider which can still cross cut a 48" sheet of ply. I believe the smaller Hammer slider can't
Also Hammer likes to spend a lot of money on advertising, fancy catalogs, etc - MiniMax puts their money into their machines and when you price them, please note they include most of the 'options' that Hammer charges for extra
http://www.scmgroupna.com/en/produc....c884/sliding-table-saws.896/sc-2-classic.706
Thanks for all of the input, guys! A bit more information... We just moved into our new home a few months ago but my long term plan is to have a custom home built in the next 5 - 10 years. My new home will have a dedicated work shop large enough to store all of my toys and I will more than likely upgrade all of my machines. With that being said, I am leaning a little more to the sawstop for now and latter adding a slider at my new shop.