It's time to buy a table saw, but what to buy?

[Kev]

Please keep the discussion going if you would like. I will be ordering a sawstop and in the future I plan to have a slider as well.

Thanks,

Daniel

[member=13588]Runhard[/member] this is no surprise to me [wink] [big grin]

Since I've started hunting for acreages I've opened my mind to thoughts of metal fabrication, proper spray areas and even thought about a closed off corner where a lathe could hide [eek] [scared]

Though I'm a "slider guy", I can foresee where a cabinet style saw with an accurately slotted top could work well with custom jigs (like some of the INCRA stuff you can build upon).

 

[Runhard]

Hey Kev,
Great minds think alike.  [thumbs up]  I also plan to have a metal fabricating area when I build a new house and shop. I actually was a pipe fitter for 3 years before I went to college, so I would like to be setup to weld again. I was thinking about a 30'x40' shop, but that may be too small for everything that I want. [eek]

 

[Kev]

Hey Kev,
Great minds think alike.  [thumbs up]  I also plan to have a metal fabricating area when I build a new house and shop. I actually was a pipe fitter for 3 years before I went to college, so I would like to be setup to weld again. I was thinking about a 30'x40' shop, but that may be too small for everything that I want. [eek]

[member=13588]Runhard[/member] talk about a heck of a co-incidence ... the property we just made an offer on had a new 9mx12m and I was thinking "at least half again" !

 

[Job and Knock]

I wish it were that simple!

Please explain. I want to know exactly why anyone ever needs to put their fingers so close to a circular blade that they can get drawn in. All I see is SawStop as being is a "sticking plaster" solution for people who are too lazy to learn how to use a table saw in a safe manner. Or maybe that's a pro woodworker thing? It's a bit like air bags vs. seat belts in cars IMHO

 

[kevinculle]

job,

Your analogy is an apt one, fasten a seatbelt and you will get a limited level of protection.  Add airbags (10 is about the current ballpark here) and you get protection that supplements the seatbelt (side collisions, frontal corner impacts, etc.) as well as protection that is independent of the seatbelt.  Features like Sawstop's should not (IMHO) be viewed as the primary means of defense...after all when you deploy the safety feature the saw no longer works and you are buying a blade and a cartridge.  So Sawstop in now way obviates the need for good everyday safety practices, attention and care when operating a tablesaw. but when things really go wrong (a slip, medical issue, etc.) the safety feature will, for a few hundred bucks turn a potential amputation or even death into a modest cut.  That's a pretty good deal!

 

[Holmz]

job,

Your analogy is an apt one, fasten a seatbelt and you will get a limited level of protection.  Add airbags (10 is about the current ballpark here) and you get protection that supplements the seatbelt (side collisions, frontal corner impacts, etc.) as well as protection that is independent of the seatbelt.  Features like Sawstop's should not (IMHO) be viewed as the primary means of defense...after all when you deploy the safety feature the saw no longer works and you are buying a blade and a cartridge.  So Sawstop in now way obviates the need for good everyday safety practices, attention and care when operating a tablesaw. but when things really go wrong (a slip, medical issue, etc.) the safety feature will, for a few hundred bucks turn a potential amputation or even death into a modest cut.  That's a pretty good deal!

That value assumes that we get a deal on fingers for $1000.

Another way of looking at it, is that no matter how many airbags, belts and crumple zones, ABS features that one has ... it is generally better not to be texting when one is driving.

As with a car, the most important safety feature is the driver.

 

[RussellS]

My opinion.  Ha.  I think the SawStop is good and I would like it to be on every saw ever made.  Maybe the patents will expire soon and other companies will adopt it wholesale.  But I think the European slider is a much better, productive design and provides about 99% or more of the safety features of the SawStop.  If the SawStop was on a European slider then you would have the best of all possible worlds.  But you have 90% good with the SawStop on the ineffective USA cabinet saw or 99% good with the European slider and no SawStop.  Which is better?

In regard to others talking about good procedures making the SawStop unneeded.  Accidents happen.  Your fault, my fault, nobody's fault.  You are doing a rip cut and you trip by accident.  People trip for no reason at all every day.  Your hand goes into the sawblade.  A kickback sends a piece of wood into your head and you lean forward to stop from falling.  Your hand goes into the blade.  Etc.  Many situations where it may not be your fault your hand goes into the blade.  Probably more where it is the operator's fault.  But in either case it would be nice to not have your hand cut off.

 

[Holmz]

Yup, I think it is good to have that feature... But at what cost?
One can only get a SAWstop with a SAWstop.

If it was available on any saw then I would probably get it. But if there was another saw that I liked more than a SAWstop I am then left with a choice between a SAWstop and a different saw without the explosive brake.

 

[RussellS]

Yup, I think it is good to have that feature... But at what cost?
One can only get a SAWstop with a SAWstop.

That's why I hope the patent by SawStop and Bosch's method expire soon.  And every other saw maker in the world adopts the technology instantly on every type of saw made.  Just a few more years and it should be everywhere from everyone.  Kind of like the biscuit joiner.  Lamello started it.  Now many companies make one.  And they are cheap now.  Soon hopefully the Festool Domino will meet the same fate.  Everyone will be making a Domino type machine in a few more years.  All patents expire sometime.

 

[Meyer138]

Go with the Hammer. The Sawstop is overrated and is only needed in a fast production setting or at a construction site where there is a lot of distractions.  IMHO.

 

[johnbro]

Go with the Hammer. The Sawstop is overrated and is only needed in a fast production setting or at a construction site where there is a lot of distractions.  IMHO.

I stuck my thumb in my blade. Yep, I did a stupid. Never done it before, always been careful. Momentary brain fart, who knows? Anyway, the blade was almost stopped--spinning down after a cut. Reached in to clear a piece and boom! touched the blade with the meat of my thumb. And the cartridge fired. Not enough blade momentum to drop it under the table, or even damage the blade. But enough help that instead of a gash in my thumb I had a small red dot. That's it. And the nice folks at SS sent me a replacement brake cartridge (they do this if they can confirm the blade touched flesh).

Was I sloppy because I had the safety feature? Was I sloppy regardless of the safety feature? Even with the new saw, it's not like I've changed my technique to put my hands closer to the blade. I still use a push block, feather boards, etc, all the time. Guard or riving knife is always on--frankly the guard is on mostly because the dust collection is so outstanding when you can use it.

I'm not a fanboy or anything, but given that a new SS costs about what a new PM2k costs it's not like there's a big cost penalty for the technology. And the saw is as good as any cabinet saw on the market, frankly a better saw than my PM66. I'm pretty sure you can still cut off your fingers with a big slider, but you can't with a SS.

 

[RussellS]

I'm not a fanboy or anything, but given that a new SS costs about what a new PM2k costs it's not like there's a big cost penalty for the technology. And the saw is as good as any cabinet saw on the market, frankly a better saw than my PM66. I'm pretty sure you can still cut off your fingers with a big slider, but you can't with a SS.

Compared to regular USA style cabinet saws, I think the SawStop would be the top choice with the extra safety feature.  Regardless of cost.  But unfortunately it does not compare in functionality to a sliding saw.  Hopefully someday we will be able to get the SawStop safety feature on real sliding tablesaws.  Yeah.