Kapex just died

[Michael Kellough]

My 6 year old Fein Turbo II 9-20-25 vac has a tool activated receptacle rated at 19 amps. Can't possibly think that Fein engineers are somehow smarter or more capable than Festool engineers, but it makes you wonder. I've plugged just about everything into it, TS75, 12" miter saw, worm drive saw (converted for dust collection), even a Bosch 4100 table saw. My shed has 30 amp lines so I'm never concerned about the outlet draw or kicking breakers.

The Fein vacs are pretty robust. I hang a 16 year old Turbo lol from my shop ceiling with a DD down in easier reach and plug anything I want to run into it. (Now that I write this I remember that the Auto/Manual switch died so I have to turn on the vac to get a tool to run, which increases the delayed start of the tool). I read that CNC guys use them as vacuum table hold downs and run them for 24 hours at a time.

Whatever the Festool manual says it’s accepted practice and demonstrated use (by Festool employees at roadshows etc.) to exceed the specs in the manual. Also, between the soft start of the tools and delayed start of the vac you aren’t pulling full load of either tool at the same time.

 

[ChuckM]

I am paying close attention to this thread to draw out the "best practice" lessons for using my Kapex. But I must say never have I had the slightest concern in the past with any power tools in my shop about the effects of current & voltage on their longevity.

I have never bothered to read anything about amps in any manual and presume if it is sold in N.A., my regular circuits would be fine. And, if anything goes wrong, it is only the tripping of the breaker that bothers me (as I have to go down to the basement for the panel), but nothing else.

If Festool could identify the Kapex motor issue and find a fix (even if it is a new and redesigned motor) once and for all, I would rather pay to get the fix and get over with it.

 

[ChuckM]

I am paying close attention to this thread to draw out the "best practice" lessons for using my Kapex. But I must say never have I had the slightest concern in the past with any power tools in my shop about the effects of current & voltage on their longevity.

I have never bothered to read anything about amps in any manual and presume if it is sold in N.A., my regular circuits would be fine. And, if anything goes wrong, it is only the tripping of the breaker that bothers me (as I have to go down to the basement for the panel), but nothing else.

(Even for the new welder (20amp specified in the manual), many past user reviews suggested it could be used on a 15amp circuit with no issues (probably because of the duty cycle thing). I installed a 20 amp outlet just for added assurance.)

If Festool could identify the Kapex motor issue and find a fix (even if it is a new and redesigned motor) once and for all, I would rather pay to get the fix and get over with it.

 

[GoingMyWay]

This isn't related to the Kapex directly, but we had 2 electric lawn mowers die within a relatively short lifespan (I think like 1 - 1.5 cutting seasons) back in the early to middle 1990's.  I believe the premature motor failure was the result of the combination of using too long of an extension cord and not a heavy enough gauge cord, which ultimately resulted in insufficient voltage to the motor.

I had no way of proving this for a fact, but this has been my theory for why those electric lawn mowers didn't last very long.

The Bosch Axial-Glide Saws look pretty nice.  I have no idea how it stacks up to the Kapex or other Sliding Compound Miter Saws, but it looks like it can be positioned much closer to a wall than a traditional SCMS.

 

[jeh]

Improperly gauged extension cords are a problem for anything electrical. There are charts in some tool instruction manuals showing minimum wire gauges for different lengths. You can never go wrong using larger gauge extension cords. The only downsides are weight and bulk.

 

[GoingMyWay]

Maybe people don't realize the importance of the wire gauge?  Or maybe it's just something that I didn't realize.

I know before I never thought anything about it.  It was basically like, hmm just plug those 2 cheap random extension cords together so it's long enough and we're good to go.  The tool works so everything must be good right???  I didn't know anything about the concept of voltage drop until I looked into it one day.

It never ceases to amaze me about all the good nuggets of information you can learn when you read the instruction manual - sooooo that's what that button is for.  I know I'm very often guilty of not reading a manual when I first get a tool or any device for that matter.

 

[RKA]

I'm just going to say this assuming someone at Festool HQ is reading this.  It's clear that there is a problem to almost everyone that reads this forum regularly or anyone that browses reviews on other websites.  7 out of the 10 most recent reviews on A****n are very poor, specifically addressing issues customers experienced with the motor.  Personally, I don't care whether the problem with the Kapex is on my end, a short sighted design or a batch of bad parts.  I bought the saw and use it because I like it.  At this point, if the motor burns up, I don't even care who is going to pay for it (-->out of warranty).  What I would like is an answer - a solution and a path to make sure my saw doesn't burn up at an inconvenient time.  Maybe there are steps I can take to avoid a failure?  Maybe it's outside my control?  Maybe I need to send it in to have a part changed?  Just tell me.  I understand there are legalities and liabilities to be considered for a company, but don't let that hamstring you from acting in your customer's interest or you will continue to erode a reputation that took years to earn. 

 

[live4ever]

Amen to RKA's post.  [not worthy]

 

[junk731]

Festool has done their job whether you want to believe or not. They state with every tools the amp draw and on the vacs they say the max amperage available and what the vac requires. Do they have to require a completed math exam before tool purchase? If you don't  understand make sure you do your research before you purchase. Do they have to put on the machines in bold fluorescent pink not to be used with CT vacuum power source. Any tool will burn up if constantly underpowered.

 

[Cheese]

Amen to RKA's post.  [not worthy]

I’ll give 2 Amens & a Hallelujah to RKA’s post. [not worthy]  [not worthy]

 

[ChuckM]

Any tool will burn up if constantly underpowered.

Was this the main reason why those Kapexes burned up? I hope Festool would shed some official light on it.

Since I have a 30amp set-up for my Kapex and shop vac, I should be safe...am I?

 

[peter halle]

Any tool will burn up if constantly underpowered.

Was this the main reason why those Kapexes burned up? I hope Festool would shed some official light on it.

Since I have a 30amp set-up for my Kapex and shop vac, I should be safe...am I?

No one in the public area knows how widespread this is or why some are having issues or why some are and some aren't.

Peter

 

[Svar]

Any tool will burn up if constantly underpowered.

Was this the main reason why those Kapexes burned up? I hope Festool would shed some official light on it.

Probably not, since TS75 or OF2200 don't have the same failure rate. I mean how many FOG post have you read saying "my TS75 is on it's third motor" etc?

 

[Cheese]

Probably not, since TS75 or OF2200 don't have the same failure rate. I mean how many FOG post have you read saying "my TS75 is on it's third motor" etc?

I’m with Svar on this one. When was the last time we had a thread that read “My TS 75 or my OF 2200” crapped out while using a Festool vac.

However, it would be interesting to tally up the number of failed Kapex’s that have been identified on this site. I think the total is larger than you’d suspect...probably even larger than Festool will admit to.  [poke]

 

[Ajax]

I'm just going to say this assuming someone at Festool HQ is reading this.  It's clear that there is a problem to almost everyone that reads this forum regularly or anyone that browses reviews on other websites.  7 out of the 10 most recent reviews on A****n are very poor, specifically addressing issues customers experienced with the motor.  Personally, I don't care whether the problem with the Kapex is on my end, a short sighted design or a batch of bad parts.  I bought the saw and use it because I like it.  At this point, if the motor burns up, I don't even care who is going to pay for it (-->out of warranty).  What I would like is an answer - a solution and a path to make sure my saw doesn't burn up at an inconvenient time.  Maybe there are steps I can take to avoid a failure?  Maybe it's outside my control?  Maybe I need to send it in to have a part changed?  Just tell me.  I understand there are legalities and liabilities to be considered for a company, but don't let that hamstring you from acting in your customer's interest or you will continue to erode a reputation that took years to earn.

I suspect it’s a design flaw and Festool knows that if they admit to this the flood gates will open.  If it was a safety issue, they would respond quickly because the litigation would eat them alive.

When you sell a $1400+ saw the thing better be solid.  If this happened to a $150 Harbor Freight saw nobody would care.

 

[junk731]

Any tool will burn up if constantly underpowered.

Was this the main reason why those Kapexes burned up? I hope Festool would shed some official light on it.

Since I have a 30amp set-up for my Kapex and shop vac, I should be safe...am I?

Like has been the constant in these threads Festool has not given a reason. Unless you have somehow figured out a way to alter the properties of electricity, if you plug the Kapex directly into the Vac to use the autostart you have a potential burnout in the making. They should be operated independently on 2 seperate 15 or 20 amp 120V circuits.

 

[Peter Durand]

Any tool will burn up if constantly underpowered.

Was this the main reason why those Kapexes burned up? I hope Festool would shed some official light on it.

Since I have a 30amp set-up for my Kapex and shop vac, I should be safe...am I?

No one in the public area knows how widespread this is or why some are having issues or why some are and some aren't.

Peter

Except of course Festool. And they ain't talking. I have one connected exclusively to a 33 and has worked well for many many years. Light duty-I have only gone through 3 bags of dust. However now every time I go to use it I am wondering if it will be the last. If it conks out I certainly will not be sending it for an expensive repair or buying another one. Regretfully.

Cheers,

Peter

 

[Runhard]

Any tool will burn up if constantly underpowered.

Was this the main reason why those Kapexes burned up? I hope Festool would shed some official light on it.

Since I have a 30amp set-up for my Kapex and shop vac, I should be safe...am I?

Like has been the constant in these threads Festool has not given a reason. Unless you have somehow figured out a way to alter the properties of electricity, if you plug the Kapex directly into the Vac to use the autostart you have a potential burnout in the making. They should be operated independently on 2 seperate 15 or 20 amp 120V circuits.

Then why does Festool tell us that we can use any of their tools plugged into any of the CT dust collectors?

From Festool:
"Festool CT Dust Extractors are designed to be used with every Festool product in normal working environments.  In short, you will be fine to use any of our tools with the CT.  We do it all the time without issue.  Remember that although it is capable of pulling 10 amps of current, it won't approach that level of draw in most applications. 

Brent"
(I'm assuming that Brent is a Festool employee.)

Daniel

 

[JCLP]

Brent.
I do agree that the Kapex seems to work well plugged into the CT but unless Festool has figured out a way to change the laws of physics it is not possible to get optimal performance and life expectancy when plugged into a circuit that will only provide 5-6.5 A on average. The saw needs close to 13 A to run efficiently and not void the warranty. Hearing that every thing works well drive me nuts. The English language is such a grey language. Saying it works, yes can be true, but define the word "works". The only sure thing we can depend on is the math. 2 plus 2 is 4 in every language all over the world. If you read the Festool operational specs for the CT and the Kapex you will see that the math makes sense. My Kapex worked well for 4 years on the CT. Remember, low current and high current will damage a motor. It's pure math and physics.

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

Unfortunately this has been a long drawn out discussion for years on FoG and else where that will not end.  Festool either doesn’t care that there is an obvious issue with the Kapex, or they are arrogant enough to know people will keep buying the saw even though a problem exists.  This Kapex issue has made me lose trust in the brand.  I do like and use Festool items everyday but now I am more willing to look in other directions besides Festool.