Cheese
Member
Got it ...so in your world 1+1 doesn't equal 2.
Kapex KS 120 vs KSC 60
- Thread starter fvoelling
- Start date
It's fair for anyone not taking a risk -- real or perceived. But the first statement is hair-splitting, I'm afraid.
Perhaps I'm too used to Milwaukee Tool deals like "Buy this impact driver and hammer drill/driver and get a free tire inflator or grease gun."
To me they're just multiple SKUs offered in a discounted package, and even if you can connect your KAPEX to your CT, it doesn't mean plugging the KAPEX into the CT, at least not to me.
luvmytoolz
Member
Seeing as these were specifically targeted as a "package system", regardless of any power ratings there's no way you couldn't reasonably expect them to be fully compatible and to operate as intended.
Advertised like that here in OZ, if you had an issue and they didn't honour a warranty for a package combo, we'd be able to take it to our consumer product watchdog and they'd lose pretty quick as it's described as such in their literature.
At least in the US, one SKU will often get you a drill/driver, impact driver and some other tool like a ratchet or die grinder, so being sold together means nothing here other than a way to package tools together. 
I don't believe those packages were sold in the US, and the CT manual indicates that in Europe, the specifications seem to say it may be a US voltage thing, as you can connect the two unless you're on 110V in the UK:
I don't believe those packages were sold in the US, and the CT manual indicates that in Europe, the specifications seem to say it may be a US voltage thing, as you can connect the two unless you're on 110V in the UK:
luvmytoolz
Member
Unless I'm mistaken aren't all of those Milwaukee's using the same battery, in other words like as in a system or fully compatible package, even though unlike the Festool promo it doesn't explicitly state that?At least in the US, one SKU will often get you a drill/driver, impact driver and some other tool like a ratchet or die grinder, so being sold together means nothing here other than a way to package tools together.
View attachment 377319
I don't believe those packages were sold in the US, and the CT manual indicates that in Europe, the specifications seem to say it may be a US voltage thing, as you can connect the two unless you're on 110V in the UK:
onocoffee
Member
At the end of the day, each one of us has to go with what we feel most comfortable with. If you don't feel safe plugging the KS120 into a CT then you don't have to. You'll just have an extra step of turning on whichever vac you decide to go with along with the KS120. However, should you go with the KS60 and a bluetooth CT then pairing the battery to the CT will automatically turn the CT on with the KS60.
Vondawg
Member
Well said all…guess we can stop going around and around on this…….please….lol
rmhinden
Member
This is loosely related to this thread.
I have a CT22 I purchased a long time ago (maybe 10 years). First Festool product for me. It came with a 20amp 115v (5-20P ?) power cord and a short adapter to allow it to be plugged into a 15amp outlet (5-15P). I got it for sanding dust collection.
Later I decided to use it with my table saw at the time (Ryobi Bt3000) and decided to plug the table saw into the CT22 outlet. Not a good idea. After doing that a few times, the auto start stopped working. It must have overloaded the control circuitry. The CT22 still worked fine, I just used it in manual mode. At some point later, I built a control setup using some 20amp iVac units housed in a box that attaches to the top of the CT22. This has two outlets, and is now plugged into a 20amp circuit.
I have my Kapex plugged into one outlet and a Festool cord attached to a dust collection hose into the other. All works fine plus I have a iVac remote that controls the CT22.
My conclusion that it is (or was for this CT22) possible to overload the control circuitry. No other damage was done.
I have a CT22 I purchased a long time ago (maybe 10 years). First Festool product for me. It came with a 20amp 115v (5-20P ?) power cord and a short adapter to allow it to be plugged into a 15amp outlet (5-15P). I got it for sanding dust collection.
Later I decided to use it with my table saw at the time (Ryobi Bt3000) and decided to plug the table saw into the CT22 outlet. Not a good idea. After doing that a few times, the auto start stopped working. It must have overloaded the control circuitry. The CT22 still worked fine, I just used it in manual mode. At some point later, I built a control setup using some 20amp iVac units housed in a box that attaches to the top of the CT22. This has two outlets, and is now plugged into a 20amp circuit.
I have my Kapex plugged into one outlet and a Festool cord attached to a dust collection hose into the other. All works fine plus I have a iVac remote that controls the CT22.
My conclusion that it is (or was for this CT22) possible to overload the control circuitry. No other damage was done.
Well, I asked this question of Festool this morning:
Question. “Does the use of a Festool tool, especially those like the OF2200 and the Kapex that have higher amperage usage, plugged into a Festool CT dust extractor automatically preclude warranty coverage in case of a tool electrical component failure?”
Answer: “No, it will not. Festool has thoroughly tested our CT outlets for just this concern”
Peter
Question. “Does the use of a Festool tool, especially those like the OF2200 and the Kapex that have higher amperage usage, plugged into a Festool CT dust extractor automatically preclude warranty coverage in case of a tool electrical component failure?”
Answer: “No, it will not. Festool has thoroughly tested our CT outlets for just this concern”
Peter
Disclaimer: i'm not an electrician. The following is just my experience with the concern:
Never had an issue with this for the bajiilion cuts ive done. Has anyone had the power outlet on the CT melt?
The Following is what i ranted on about before reading it was in refence to the outlet on the CT, LOL
If it's a concern about the electricity being provided:
The big "draw" is when the motor kicks on, and immediately drops right after. When you turn on the kapex, there is slight delay to when the CT turns on; perhaps to combat both of them shooting up the amperage at the same time.
Another example of this is I have the 5HP Grizzly Jointer/Planer combo, and a 3HP Grizzly dust collector.
Jointer/Planer requires a 30amp circuit @220 (Motor rated for 25amp)
Dust Collector requires a 20amp circtui @220 (Motor rated for 15amp)
I measured the amperage while turning on this machinery as well as when the motor is under stress of cutting. I never try and time out turning on both machines at the same exact time, would actually be harder to do that; Amperage while planing a wide board with Machine and Dust collection running will just "kiss" 20amp of use, and not every time. Usually hovers, while planning something 10" wide, at 18amps.
I couldn't even get the breaker to flip while trying.
A smell outside the tool would point at a fault in the building wiring.
Would have been fun if you could have phrased it "Can I plug the 13A Kapex into the 3.7A max outlet on my CT-48?"
I called and asked that and had to leave a message for their application support person who has not returned my call.
luvmytoolz
Member
That's the difference between asking a general non-committal type question that generates a similar type response, vs a question stating official figures that requires an official response that they would then need to feel comfortable couldn't work against them at some point. That then really forces them into the position that it becomes a "let our lawyers look into that and respond" realm.
Given they've already responded there is no warranty issue, that's all that matters.
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woodferret
Member
Approved rating problem. 80% * 15A is 12A. Source: https://store.workshopsupply.com/catalogue/pdf/iVAC-AmpRating.pdf
woodferret
Member
They are amazing accurate with their description, although not prescriptive enough I guess for some. In the end, that email becomes a Rorschach test.
It assumes some basic technical literacy in electrical ratings. Duty cycle, thermal limits, transient vs continuous load. Without that, we basically come down to hardline 'it says X amps on the label. My tool says X amps = I guess I shouldn't use it' which I guess if one doesn't know anything, then that's the safest approach. Following the label should probably also be the safest approach for those that go 'I saw a youtuber use it, then it's fine' but that's a whole different issue.
ReneS
Member
I was rushing when I posted that. Semenza's post included the question posed to Festool.
Given that context, it says the same thing that Peter reported above.
I, for one, am comfortable continuing to plug my track saw, router, etc. Into the outlet on my dust extractor (CT26, I think. The model numbers get to be a fog at times.)
tjbnwi
Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2008
- Messages
- 7,235
Correct to a point.
The 80% only applies to continues load which is defined as 3 hours or more of use at full load.
All tool manufactures that I know of to get a “listing” on their tools apply the 80% rule.
That is why I have repeatedly said the number on the cover is nothing more than a math function. This satisfies the testing agencies requirements. It has absolutely nothing to do with the current the onboard receptacle and its circuitry will carry.
Once Festool appeased the complainers about the dongle they had to change the current rating.
As mentioned previously the 240 volt units have a higher load rating, Ohms Law says this must be true.
Notice I said “listing” not UL, there are more than one listing agencies, UL is just the best known.
Tom
In addition, the iVac's note clearly states this:
"As a result, all the components have been
selected to operate continuously under
15Amp conditions and the product has also
been rigorously tested under these
conditions."
I bought my iVac with from Lee Valley, which product page offers this:
iVAC Automatic Vacuum Switch - Lee Valley Tools
www.leevalley.com
I use my Kapex EB with a shop vac and the iVac switch. Nothing bad has happened to any of the three devices included in the setup.
tjbnwi
Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2008
- Messages
- 7,235
My point exactly. The numbers on the units are there only to satisfy a math formula, they have nothing to do with real world testing.In addition, the iVac's note clearly states this:
"As a result, all the components have been
selected to operate continuously under
15Amp conditions and the product has also
been rigorously tested under these
conditions."
I bought my iVac with from Lee Valley, which product page offers this:
iVAC Automatic Vacuum Switch - Lee Valley Tools
I use my Kapex EB with a shop vac and the iVac switch. Nothing bad has happened to any of the three devices included in the setup.
Tom
