Kapex miter table hard to turn or Scraping?

[Brice Burrell]

Miter saws have been around for more than 30 years now. There have been a lot of means devised to lock the miter. While most of the other features of miter saws have been improved or exceeded in the Kapex the miter lock isn't one of them.

Well, you may be right.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most other miter saws lock onto something other than the miter scale?
And the miter scale is an independently attached reference?

There are so many designs out there it's hard to accurately answer this question, for the sake of this discussion I would have to agree.

On the Kapex, miter locking depends on three screws fitted though large holes. If those screws loosen you've got a lot of trial and error adjustment to do. (TIP, make a couple of reference miters while it is dead own to aid in recovering the saw setting so you can derive the miter scale setting from that)

Making the miter scale do double duty (critical duty) isn't an improvement IMO.

Your statement speaks for itself.

 

[ccmviking]

Rick's explanation may be Festool official stance on what is causing the scraping it's not what I experienced and it doesn't explain the many people that have NO issue with their saw and then DO have an issue.  Something changed drastically as mine went from not dragging top or bottom to almost stuck on bottom.  It became very hard to turn.  Then after changing the plate It had a lot of clearance on bottom and then started grinding at the top  and became very hard to rotate the table again.  It's not a slight oh it's designed to touch slightly kinda rub.  It had a lot of friction to a point of sticking and scraping the top of the miter gauge.  So it galled and rubbed on bottom after working fine, then after fixing that problem it went from working fine to sticking and grinding at the top.  I tried the removing the paint fix as suggested by Festool and it didn't work. 

So Rick although I really appreciate your response, your making light of the situation when you haven't heard what people have stated isn't helpful.  My saw did not exhibit normal behaviors as you might like everyone to believe and changing out the plate did not fix my saw.  What is the reason the miter gauge goes from NO contact top or bottom (I guess this is when it's abnormal, huh?) to rubbing either top/bottom or both?

So does everyone out there have rubbing at the top of their Miter Guage?  Is it a slight rub or something more?  Do you notice if it is worse sometimes than other times?  Is the noise a slight rub or more of a grinding sound?

Chris...     

Chris do you see any green around my name? I am not a Festool employee, so I really don?t appreciate it when someone is as disrespectful as you just were. I took time out of my morning to look into a problem that I wasn?t even experiencing, and I come back to be greeted by your attitude.

If the solution I presented does not resolve your problem, then you have a different problem and should contact Festool Service yourself. If the problem is as severe as you indicate, then you should have already returned your saw under the full factory warranty instead of whining about it.

Rick,

If you're offended by what I said you need to figure out a way to deal with that yourself.  Your statement of "people discussing this and presenting a lot of speculative repair information" is discounting what others are saying.  In your whole post you did nothing but think you had the silver bullet to solving the issue.  I'm assuming that you've never had this issue or replaced the part on your saw, so how exactly did you think you could say that what others was saying was speculative?  I would say your comments were speculative repair procedures since they didn't fix the issue.  If you read my post again you will see that I will be getting a new Kapex tomorrow.  Like I said it may or may not suffer from the same design or material flaw that my current one does. 

Chris...

 

[Brice Burrell]

Okay guys let's not get sidetracked here this thread is too important for that.

I've talked to Chris on the phone twice now and I understand frustration he has gone through. He tried to fix the saw in the field (in 100+ degree heat) just to have the problem reoccur. He talked to David McGibbon and followed his advice so it's only fair that we don't dismiss his attempts to resolved this problem. Also keep in mind he is here to complain, he posted this thread to try to help others understand the issues involved and get the correct information to the users.

So if you own a US version Kapex I'd like to hear about how your saw is working. Is setting the miter stiff, is there a grinding sound? I want to hear from all of you even if your saw works perfectly (I especially want to hear from you if your saw works perfectly).

 

[Michael Kellough]

When you guys post your experiences with the movement of the miter table
it might be helpful to include the climate conditions associated with any change
in how smoothly the table moves.

 

[ccmviking]

Michael,

It's hot where I'm at.  We've been 100+ with around 30% humidity.  I thought it was just a heat related issue and that I was the only one with a problem at first.  It was 110-112
the first day I got it out and used it.  That's why I posted that poll trying to figure out where they are getting used.  I'm not so sure that's it's related to temperature now.

Chris...

 

[Michael Kellough]

Some materials that are humidity sensitive are not necessarily temperature sensitive.
And some materials (like rubber) respond differently to temperature than you'd expect.

But, 110 degrees is extreme! Even the aluminum will expand significantly in that climate.

I'm just speculating that the guide plate is involved too but there doesn't seem to be a spring included
in the miter table to base connection so that guide plate must be a pliable synthetic low friction material
and there is a good chance that it has some kind of climatic sensitivity which could exceed the tighter tolerance
of the spring plate from the early supply of North American Kapex.

I'd also like to know more about the lever (part #115). In the parts diagram it is a complete assembly of I don't know what. Which way do you move the lever to clamp the spring plate to the miter scale?

I'm kinda butting in here since I don't have a Kapex but I just can't resist a good technical mystery.

 

[TahoeTwoBears]

Brice,

My saw is working fine (so far). I haven't used it extensively yet. Just cutting some base, so hopefully it won't become the problem that others are having.

Rick's comment about Festool changing the design must ring true or these issues would have cropped up elsewhere in the world before we got ours. It would be interesting to see the differences in design between the two.

Mike

 

[rnt80]

I just noticed the scraping on mine.  I used it the other day for the first time to do some casing.  It was indoors, probably mid '70's, and I didn't have any problems.  Today I was outside in my garage (in Phoenix) and it was over 100.  The scraping got worse the more I attempted to swing the saw.

 

[mantonuc]

Hello Brice,

  For what it is worth, I just went out in my garage and checked the "condition" of my miter saw...  The temperature in there is about 80+-...  At first, the miter angle moved very freely...  I swung it all the way from the leftmost position (50 degrees) to the rightmost position (60 degrees) maybe ten times...  After about the 6th or 7th time, it started to bind again...  I looked at the "spring plate" and other than the fact that it rest on the miter scale, I do not see any obvious signs of it burring into the metal...

  One thing I wanted to point out is that the scraping/grinding on both my machine and the one at Woodcraft was most audible at the leftmost end of the travel (i.e., 50 degrees)...  I am being shipped a new spring plate and hope to have it by Friday...  One thing I do not understand is if it is the spring plate, why is it not binding more-or-less uniformly across the entire length of the miter scale.  It clearly seems to bind the most at the extreme ends of the travel...

  I will install and report back what the results are...

Matt

 

[ccmviking]

    I have a goal to have this issue resolved one way or another within 30 Days from my purchase date.  To me that's the worst thing that can happen but I have to leave that option open to myself.  I think the saw has some wonderful features, cuts very well, and would be a pleasure to use if it didn't feel like you're swinging around something cheaply made.  I want the issues resolved.  I paid a lot of money for this as did others.  The Festool fix didn't on this one.  Maybe the other saw won't need it and if it does maybe it's the remedy.  My saw was checked prior to shipment, worked find, fine when I got it, and now doesn't.  I'm concerned that Festool hasn't made any statement on this.  I hope it's that they are feverishly working on a real solution and will let us know shortly.    I've got less than 3 weeks to get everything working well or have them come pick it up. 

Chris...

 

[rmoursund]

My saw arrived with difficult miter movement and the scraping sound, and remained that way for several hours.  At first I was concerned that I might be damaging the saw because of the sound and difficulity of movement, however after several hours of use, it improved to the point that it was completely normal.  It made this return in stages.  It became easier to operate in the area from +/- 30 degrees, then from 50 to 45 degrees and finally throughout the whole range: 50 -60 degrees.  It worked perfectly the remainder of the day, only to partially return the next day.  When it started acting up again it was for the most part on the outside of the scale, primarily on the far right side of the scale.  Also, it quickly corrected itself again after moving the miter three or four times and as of now is again working correctly.
I live in the Houston area and yes it is hot and humid.  After delivery it sat outside in 97 degree heat and was brought into my air conditioned shop.  As mentioned above, after several hours of use it started working normally.  The next day (today), the problem momentarily return, but it had be in use several hours in this same air conditioned enviorment.  I personally don't think the weather is affecting the saw, but if it is, I think we have a very bad design problem that must be addressed.  I think its' fair to say we should expect equipment of this caliber to operate in 100 degree weather.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Hello Brice,

  For what it is worth, I just went out in my garage and checked the "condition" of my miter saw...  The temperature in there is about 80+-...  At first, the miter angle moved very freely...  I swung it all the way from the leftmost position (50 degrees) to the rightmost position (60 degrees) maybe ten times...  After about the 6th or 7th time, it started to bind again...  I looked at the "spring plate" and other than the fact that it rest on the miter scale, I do not see any obvious signs of it burring into the metal...

  One thing I wanted to point out is that the scraping/grinding on both my machine and the one at Woodcraft was most audible at the leftmost end of the travel (i.e., 50 degrees)...  I am being shipped a new spring plate and hope to have it by Friday...  One thing I do not understand is if it is the spring plate, why is it not binding more-or-less uniformly across the entire length of the miter scale.  It clearly seems to bind the most at the extreme ends of the travel...

  I will install and report back what the results are...

Matt

What about the humidity guys?

The spring plate clamps to the miter scale which is bolted to the tops of three posts in the base.
Apparently the posts at the ends of your miter scale are slightly shorter, or have less paint on them, than the center post.
Also, if there is any vertical bend in the miter plate the clearance between the spring plate and miter scale will change.

 

[hamsey]

The scraping got worse the more I attempted to swing the saw.

This is the same thing I am experiencing. At first I thought I was getting the grinding on the top of the miter scale but it is on the bottom after taking a closer look. I have mine in the basement so the temp & humidity is pretty consistent. When I do the first miter of the day works as it should, after some swings of the saw it gets worst to the point that I start to move the MFT800. Would manufacturer date have anything to do with it?

Norm

 

[Brice Burrell]

Norm, there is a date on the sticker on the saw's motor housing and on the underside of the base. The most important date is on the underside of the rotating part of the base. The dates on my saw are 2/08 on the base, 4/08 on the motor and the rotating part of the base is 3/08.

 

[ccmviking]

      Can anyone figure out if this issue is going to have an affect on the accuracy of the saw?  I know we haven't determined whether or not and/or how much the rotating table is changing from the stationary table, but couldn't it change the accuracy?  When I get my new one today, I'm going to check clearances right out of the box and take some pictures, then I can monitor for changes if/when it starts grinding too.

Chris...

 

[rnt80]

If it comes down to returning the saw (I ordered mine online) will Festool send out a new one without waiting to receive the defective unit, or does it depend on the retailer?

 

[ccmviking]

      Looks like we may have lost Festools direct relationship with users on this site.  Out of curiosity I checked status, and either they are just really busy or got tired of all the stuff and decided to bow out.  They went to being pretty active and involved to what now, "Lurkers"? 

Christian
Last Post 6/25/08

Shane
Last Post 6/13/08

Chris...

 

[Matthew Schenker]

      Looks like we may have lost Festools direct relationship with users on this site.  Out of curiosity I checked status, and either they are just really busy or got tired of all the stuff and decided to bow out.  They went to being pretty active and involved to what now, "Lurkers"? 

Christian
Last Post 6/25/08

Shane
Last Post 6/13/08

Chris...

Let's not speculate about why this is happening.

But whatever it is, inactivity is one of the reasons I'm considering closing the "Contact Festool" board and moving those posts into the "general" category.  I mentioned it in this discussion.

Stay in touch,
Matthew

 

[Spike]

      Looks like we may have lost Festools direct relationship with users on this site.  Out of curiosity I checked status, and either they are just really busy or got tired of all the stuff and decided to bow out.  They went to being pretty active and involved to what now, "Lurkers"? 

Christian
Last Post 6/25/08

Shane
Last Post 6/13/08

Chris...

Hi Chris,
Festool won't leave you hanging, trust me. They are extremely busy and actively pursuing a fix to the turntable. In light of this it is still the best miter saw by leaps and bounds.
Did you call Festool service yet? 888-337-8600 or 800-554-8741.

I know we have all been hot and bothered lately with the Kapex and the forum but rest assured customer service at Festool is FAR superior to any other vendor I have done business with.

Spike

 

[Michael Kellough]

Several people have mentioned that there is more scraping at the far left or far right
(or both) of the miter table's travel.

Is that scraping of the underside of the miter scale or the top of the scale?

Most of the scraping issues seem to be associated with the spring plate scraping
the underside of the scale so if your scraping is on the top (the clamp tab) please say so.