KAPEX PRECISION OF CUT AND ACCURACY VS???

[jerrym303]

This thread is old, but not TOO old.

For a data point, I have had my Kapex over a year.  I knew is was "on" out of the box because I checked angles with a Starrett square.

I finally tried the 4/5 cut test on the miter and the part was out .002" over 7 inches which is .004 degrees.  That will do for me.

 

[fin]

ive been checking out all these kapex threads and looking up uk prices for a little while.

my dewalt dw701 mitre saw is now about 6 years old. its not been worked hard or anything. but its never been that accurate. theres a small plastic screw inside on the lower guide rail if i loosen it the saw rocks on the rails. if i tighten it its too tight so i have to back it out till its just loose enough to pull out. theres a small amount of movement. also the whole thing rocks on the pivot point for the cutting table. again if i tighten it up i cant move it so it has to be just enough to allow some movement but also for me to be able to swing it.

also if i need a angle thats not got a detent i have to tighten the knob which always knocks it out a little bit. and setting bevel angles is a total lottery lol.

dust collection is non existent.

and its too small with only a 216mm blade and no trench facility.

it does have a very smooth running motor.

i use it with either dewalt or bosch blades.

the accuracy is often way off. if i cut a 2x2 and put my square across it ill find its out visually. not using a feeler gauge lol.

i think id probably pay the extra for a kapex like. just they look to be way better than say the makita saw which would be my other option.

@ the op... im sure you wouldnt buy a dw701 being as they are out of production for a fair while now. but dewalt do have a 250mm mitre saw out now which is of a very similar design. probably uses many components the same as in my mitre saw.

edit:-

how much has the festool blade got to do with accuracy? or lack of deflection noted by other users?

 

[wow]

How accurate is the Kapex?

When I decided that this was no longer acceptable. That's after installing a new blade on the 12" Ridgid and fiddling with the table and fence. No, that's not blood on the trim.

After I got the Kapex, this is what the cut looked like. Same material, same unskilled guy making the cut.

I am amazed at that difference. I don't know if I am more amazed at the accuracy of the Kapex, or the inaccuracy of the Ridgid?

 

[fdengel]

you can get one of these bad momba jombas...

to slice up your wood.

....hmmmm....but is it as accurate as the Kapex

Almost as importantly, what is the kerf width like on that tool?

 

[jerrym303]

how much has the festool blade got to do with accuracy? or lack of deflection noted by other users?

Fin,  I used a Tenyru blade for the above test,

 

[jimmylittle]

I've had my Kapex a couple of months now, and here are my thoughts -

Accuracy is dead on, despite the Kapex not living in a shop.  It gets moved a lot.  The big thing for me is the bevel mechanism.  I do a lot of wide baseboards in the neighborhoods I work in, so cutting a 8-9" baseboard flat on the table requires a good bevel system.  The front-mounted handle and large angle scale make that very simple.

Dust collection (with a CT) is also better than any saw on the market, in my opinion.  It's also 25 pounds lighter than a comparable slider from DeWalt or Makita.

There are some drawbacks, as with any tool.  The miter gauge that comes with it is sometimes useful, but mostly gets in the way.  You have to slide it back and forth in it's little home in the saw base to clear the table when doing miter cuts.  The blade is not a standard 10" blade, so throw out all your existing blades, and don't bank on picking one up at the store if you need one in a pinch.  Always have a spare, because even ordering from Amazon Prime you won't get it for a day or two.  (unless you have a local Festool dealer).

UPDATE
As for the rant above, I am one of those TV carpenters.  Not all of us are just "pretty boys".  I wouldn't have made it to over 300 episodes if I was just a pretty face.  Many of us have years of actual carpentry experience (25 years experience, in my case) and enjoy the challenge of doing a project in a day or two while set up in a tent in someone's backyard.  I do agree with you that it's not a normal job site.  It's a normal job site with tighter deadlines, more bystanders, several cameras and microphones in your face, and a designer hovering over your shoulder changing things by the minute.  And it's pretty damn fun. 

To bring it back to the subject, I love all my Festool stuff, but I have to use many different brands of tools in order to satisfy contracts with advertisers or network rules.  Sometimes, all labels have to be stripped entirely.  I can tell you from my experience, the Kapex is the saw to have.  In the last 3 years I have used DeWalt, Bosch, Kobalt, Hitachi, Makita, Milwaukee, and RIDGID sliding miter saws, and the Kapex is by far the most accurate and easiest to move around. 

 

[Zacharytanner]

I know you want to only hear about accuracy but something just as important is customer service and a company that stands behind its tools. I just sent my Kapex in for service and it was well past the warranty. I'm talking YEARS past and they did a complete rebuild and put it back to new for less than 200. They didn't need to do that and totally BLEW me away with their service. A FAN for life!

My 2cents

Frank

 

[HappyCamper]

I had the original Hitachi 8.5 inch saw with the 12 inch capacity slide and it was very accurate.  Replaced it with a 12 inch and lost some of the accuracy.  I loved the 8.5 because it was light, but it was a monster for dust.  I "settled" on the Kapex because it was as accurate as the 8.5 inch but much easier to use.  I also wanted a light saw, because I usually use the saw for trim work in the house (or friend's houses) and the portability was worth something to me.  I must confess I personally love the laser as I used to make a manual test run on the saw to make sure I had the right cut. This is now not necessary.  I really enjoy using the saw and for the dust collection, ease of setting angles, it's lighter weight compared to some of the other saws, it against the wall ability, and cut capacity.  I don't think you will find a more accurate saw, but if accuracy is your only criteria, then there must be saws out there with the same accuracy at a lower cost.  For me, if I could have found a saw with all the features as the Kapex, I would have been happy to buy the Festool prices make me gag.  I have not regretted my decision. 

 

[Mitchy5104]

I cannot see how anyone justifies the Kapex, looking at lee valley today, before the price increase, to buy the kapex with CT26 and a mobile stand with wings would be $2111 + $931 = $3042  add another $400 for taxes and youre spending approx. $3500 for this set up.    AFter april 1st, likely closer to $4000

I bought a dewalt dws780xps with a mobile stand with wings for a grand total of $698 with taxes.  I also purchased a stanley shop vac that is just as quiet as the CT26 for $134.  so I spent $832 total for the same thing i get from festool for $3500.

Granted the dewalt probably isn't quite as nice as the festool, dust collection isn't quite as good, BUT Im willing to bet it is not that much of a difference.  the dewalt dust collection is actually pretty good with the shop vac attached. 

Interested to hear what the replies to this are.

 

[Mitchy5104]

Just thought I'd add, I could buy 4 dewalt saws with shop vacs for the same price as the festool

 

[andyman]

That's a serious equation, I know I've been impressed with all my festool purchases apart from the of1400 which I'm still not sure about.
I've never bought a dewalt product as they used to have a bad name but 4 times the price for an equivalent product?

 

[shed9]

Not sure I see the point of the comparison of how many cheap things you can buy instead of the one expensive thing.

I could buy 14.38 cheap crap saws instead of one Kapex, but I'm not going to achieve the same results with either side of the equation.

 

[Mitchy5104]

Hey Shed9

The dewalt is not a cheap saw and they do the exact same thing and you'll get similar results with both

 

[shed9]

Hey Shed9

The dewalt is not a cheap saw and they do the exact same thing and you'll get similar results with both

My point Mitchy5104 was that you will always get products that are at different points on the spectrum in terms of cost. This is true of all consumer products.

I don't think the Dewalt is a cheap saw, I was referencing other saws in my post. I have a Dewalt mitre saw and it does most of what I ask of it however the blade does deflect, its dust collection is next to useless and the rear slide takes up too much room. When I come to replace it I'm more likely to go the Festool route - it would be pointless me buying four identical tools with the same issues when I can buy a single one that addresses them. That was my point.

Just my opinion, wasn't trying to knock Dewalt or offend.

 

[skids]

Fact- Kapex has less deflection and head wobble than ANY other saw due to the design of the rails

Fact- The bevel is more accurate than any other saw because of the design and ease of use since you're not wrastlin' around with the head of the saw and reaching etc.

Fact- Dust collection is about 80% or more ( no other saw can say that), contributes to improving accuracy

Fact- Soft start improves accuracy

Fact- Lasers on both sides of the blade improves accuracy

Fact- Comes with a top quality blade, not a throw away. Improves accuracy, less deflection, cleaner cut, safer.

Fact- Comes with miter guage that aligns with the lasers- and it works wonderfully

In my opinion, FWIW, the reason to buy the Kapex (in order or importance) according to me:

1) The bevel- it's simply unmatched

2) Dust collection

3) accuracy due to the collection of unique features (that actually work) of the saw

4) weight of the saw. Has nothing to do with accuracy, but it matters-alot.

Accuracy on any tool is really a subjective topic..I know guys who are ridiculously accurate on junky saws- accuracy is also about ability and experience. But overall, if you pull out the user-factor, the Kapex is more accurate than any other saw on the market, it makes you think about solving problems differently too. It's certainly not easy to justify the prices of Festool sometimes, and the Kapex has a big price tag, but thats what the 30 day policy is for. Take it home, try it see if it works for you.

 

[glass1]

what a silly debate. The 780 is a great framer, easy to use, relatively light weight, and has monster capacity when needed, I do not know how all of you get by with just one saw. Different saws for different jobs or working styles. the price comparison is off as well. the stands are ones choice and there are many options for both. The dewalt is 600 plus 100 for a real blade. The kapex is 1375. You also get the angle thingy and a better hold down clamp which may matter or not. Listen the 780 is made in the third world by cheap labor with little environmental standards. The Kapex is made by people from the first world making a living wage. What goes around comes around.

 

[jaymon5]

+1 I have the older version Dewalt dw718 (12" compound slider) and just got the Kapex.  I use both for different reasons as glass1 mentioned.  For the abuses of framing I use the Dewalt, for everything else Kapex. 

 

[WoodWhisperer]

Love my Kapex!!! best part about it..... 

My boss payed for it! [tongue]

 

[Kodi Crescent]

When people moan about the cost, I don't know if it is worth engaging them.  Yes, yes, I understand that we don't want to throw money away.  And yes, I understand that sometimes we get marketed to by snake oil salesman that want to take us.  That's not the case with Festool.

Look at the "finish" work on things you buy.  How well is something machined?  How durable is the part.  The care that goes between "price point" saws and fine machine work saws costs money.

Now compare service.  The service network and service level has a cost.  That cost is like an insurance cost that you pay for every tool.  Other companies may or may have a service department, but I don't think they rival that of Festools.

I have a Kapex, and I had to send it in for something minor.  I received the white glove treatment.  I had a problem with an accessory, and I didn't want to accept a rigged up fix.  Again, I received the white glove treatment.  This isn't free, and its reflected in the extra cost of the saw.

A good comparison is buying a Mac vs. a PC.  You may pay $400 for a PC at the "Sensory Assault Zone", but what do you do when something goes wrong?  You take it to the "Weak Squad" or whatever they call themselves these days, and ask them to fix it.  They give you the run around, and then present you with a bill and your computer back 2 days later.  They also probably request you buy their extended warranty.

Take your broken Mac to the Apple store and say "here, please fix it".  They do it.  They have the parts in stock.  There may be a bill, but its usually a fraction of the cost.  Most times no additional cost.  But you get your machine fixed competently.  But you pay for this service with the extra cost of the Mac.

Same analogy with Festool vs. others.

And remember, 5 years from now, which will have greater salvage value?  You have to give the lesser brand away.  Not the Festool.

 

[Mitchy5104]

In 5 years I could give away my old saw, buy a new one and still have money for a few more.  Bottom line is, I just cant understand buying a $1700 mitre saw with no stand (price for stand $ an extra $931 plus tax!).  And the argument with blade deflection and clean cuts....I don't buy it.  Customer service is great, but am I willing to drop another $1000 for customer service, not when dewalts service is just as good.  I don't mean to put down those who have bought them, I just haven't heard an argument that would convince me that buying this saw at the outrageous price it sells for is worth it, not even close.  Festool's marketing team is genius, what other item would you be willing to purchase for 3 times the price of a comparable item and defend it to the death!  And also, have scores of people obsessed with purchasing more over priced tools, how many threads are there asking which festool item they should buy next?  I fell into it for a while but then have come to see the light.  Great tools but majorly overpriced...dont forget to purchase the vacuum with your tool...extra $6-700....and the boom arm.....extra $400....and the work centre....extra $500....and the stool....extra $400.