Kapex Price Poll - How much would you spend?

[Per Swenson]

Roland,

Here is the way I figure it.

I am a Carpenter. The market dictates if I am high end or not.

I own 3 compound saws today. 2 tens and a 12, all attached to

Rigid suv miter stands. No matter how you set 'em up and transport, they are a pain.

But perfect for large projects were they will remain stationary for 3 months.

But Roland, we are a the bottom end of a economic cycle and the first guy to suffer

is the independent high end carpenter.

Which translates to little jobs in home improvement and handyman specials that

the formerly paper wealthy yuppies are forced to now inhabit.

I am not proud or pretentious. Hell, I'll paint your house.

The point here is the time saved in set up and clean up.

For when did a 2 day job ever not stretch to 3 or better?

Merry Christmas

Per

 

[Lou Miller]

Roland,

Here is the way I figure it.

I am a Carpenter. The market dictates if I am high end or not.

I own 3 compound saws today. 2 tens and a 12, all attached to

Rigid suv miter stands. No matter how you set 'em up and transport, they are a pain.

But perfect for large projects were they will remain stationary for 3 months.

But Roland, we are a the bottom end of a economic cycle and the first guy to suffer

is the independent high end carpenter.

Which translates to little jobs in home improvement and handyman specials that

the formerly paper wealthy yuppies are forced to now inhabit.

I am not proud or pretentious. Hell, I'll paint your house.

The point here is the time saved in set up and clean up.

For when did a 2 day job ever not stretch to 3 or better?

Merry Christmas

Per

Per, you and I are very much alike. I also really like the idea of the dust collection on the Kapex and how that translates into time savings with clean up. However, how often do you really think you're actually going to set up a miter saw INSIDE a finished home? The idea of doing it is great. Actually doing it is something entirely different though. Only time I actually set up inside a house is when I have major work going on there, like a decent sized addition, and its sealed off from the remainder of the home. No way would I ever set any saw (Festool or otherwise) up in a finished living room. If you can pull that off, more power to ya, but my customers would go out of their minds if I did that.

I actually have a feeling this saw is going to be purchased by a lot more hobbiests than pros. Just a hunch on my part, I could easily be wrong.

 

[Eli]

My last remodel job before I left LA was a crown molding and trim job on a condo. 2.5 stories, garage was in the back below ground floor. That's where we set up the saw. Flight of stairs from garage to ground floor. Flight of stairs to kitchen level. Flight of stairs to top floor, where there were three bedrooms to be done. Would I have set this saw up, upstairs? You effing bet I would have.

So far my experience with the saw indicates that you only have a small amount of heavy dust from the cuts, very little airborne. That means if you dropcloth the carpet and tape up some plastic on the wall behind, you're in biz, inside. How many guys wouldn't do this instead of go in and out of the house, esp. in winter, out to an unheated garage?

Per, I agree man, that's why there's a crazy rationale paying more for the tools, because you can work right where someone lives and leave very little evidence at the end of each day, and that counts for as much as the quality of your work. Only 1 in 5 average Joes know the difference between a butt joint and a dovetail, but every single one of them knows what a mess looks like.

 

[mastercabman]

I actually have a feeling this saw is going to be purchased by a lot more hobbiests than pros. Just a hunch on my part, I could easily be wrong.

i also have the same feeling about that.
i don't expect to see too many kapex on the job site.

 

[Lou Miller]

My last remodel job before I left LA was a crown molding and trim job on a condo. 2.5 stories, garage was in the back below ground floor. That's where we set up the saw. Flight of stairs from garage to ground floor. Flight of stairs to kitchen level. Flight of stairs to top floor, where there were three bedrooms to be done. Would I have set this saw up, upstairs? You effing bet I would have.

So far my experience with the saw indicates that you only have a small amount of heavy dust from the cuts, very little airborne. That means if you dropcloth the carpet and tape up some plastic on the wall behind, you're in biz, inside. How many guys wouldn't do this instead of go in and out of the house, esp. in winter, out to an unheated garage?

Per, I agree man, that's why there's a crazy rationale paying more for the tools, because you can work right where someone lives and leave very little evidence at the end of each day, and that counts for as much as the quality of your work. Only 1 in 5 average Joes know the difference between a butt joint and a dovetail, but every single one of them knows what a mess looks like.

Eli,

I think you missed my point. I wouldn't have any problem with setting up inside a person's home. The problem is the home owners. I bring all kinds of things to protect people's homes with me and do a great job of keeping things clean. However, they still aren't going to want me inside with the saw. Now if the whole house is being renovated, that might be different.

 

[Roland Chung]

I'm no math whiz, but here is my take based on todays poll numbers-

If they sold it today for about $1100, they would get about 23% of the potential buyers.  $1000 would get them about 47% and $900 would get them about 67%.  And these buyers would be from a pool of Festool enthusiasts from this website, not just the general public.  I imagine that a poll taken at another woodworking site would yield different (cheaper) results.

We should do another poll, "At what price would you expect your wife to put a Kapex under the tree for you?"

Merry Christmas!

 

[Per Swenson]

Lou,

Yeah, on a small job, I am going to do whatever I have to, get in and out.

Plastic, pole's and drop cloths, as close as possible.

But here is the deal, the rig below, as I said 1 of 3,

is nuthin but a pain.  I wanna drive the lil suv to the job

rather then the Honkin F350 gets 7 miles to the gal.

Its all economics.

Tell you the truth I was gonna buy that 7.5 makita

till I got wind of this.

Per

 

[srmumz]

Festool is historically twice the cost as what the general public would consider a "comparable" product. We don't need to trudge ourselves back out into the mud on the benefits of the Festool product, so my guess is that it will land at $1450.00. Those of us that are prepared for the $800 range are dreaming. Those of us that are hoping for $1000.00 are going to be willing to save another $450.00 and purchase one. Those of us that are prepared for $1200.00 will just put off buying something else and walk out with a Kapex, and those of us that are planning on spending $1500.00 will just write a check. My fear is the accessories. This is were Festool tends to get an additional 15-25% of "Plus Sales".

It's all speculating until that green, grey and black card comes in the mail!

 

[mastercabman]

i'm sure there will be an introducing price when it gets here.

 

[Toolpig]

I've seen the KAPEX up close and personal.  I can't tell you how, so you'll have to trust me!  ;D

Very impressive saw, except that the dust collection isn't what I'd expect from a Festool.  That said, it's as good or better than anything else out there.

The micro-adjust feature is interesting, though most experienced carpenters will just give the saw a tap or two when they need a "fine" adjustment.

I'm not impressed with the Festool stands for this saw.  Buy the RIDGID miter saw stand instead.  The KAPEX fits just fine on it.

I don't know what these are going to sell for here in the U.S., but I think I'll continue to spend my "big" money on the Festool sanders. 

TP

 

[semenza]

Hi,

  Well I am willing to pay two to three times the going rate for Festool stuff. So I guess that puts me around $1300 USD or so.

Seth

 

[Woodenfish]

I do understand the Festool confiscatory pricing strategy. But no matter how appealing the saw may be to the beholder, how can a 45 pound saw with a 15 amp universal motor cost as much or more than a 450 pound 52" Unisaw with a single phase 220V TEFC 3 hp motor? With no uniqueness like that of the Domino, I haven't yet found a valid reason to spend three times the going rate of the competition. I might consider it at $800, if someone were to have paid $1000, I could justify brand loyalty but much higher than that I feel would be pretty sick.

 

[semenza]

Hi,

    From reports given on here the Kapex is supposed to do the job better than any other saw on the market. It is supposed to have features and design that outperform the competition.  For those of us that havn't had the chance to use one we will have to wait and see.  The Kapex will be an expensive tool but not out of proportion to Festools other tools.  Why pay twice as much for a Festool router, or sander?  The same reasons apply to the Kapex.

Seth

 

[Programmergeek]

For under 1000 I would buy it blind.  But for 1000-1400 I would have to read some dang good reviews on it and it would have to cut angles perfect along with good dust collection, compound miter saws have alwas let me down.  For over 1400 just not worth it my dewalt works fine, but than again I don't use this saw every day I am a hobbiest.  It's amazing that a miter saw is approaching the price of a decent table saw. 

 

[Dan Clark]

Several months ago, many people (including me) believed that the intro price would be just under $1,000.  Now, given the abysmal state of the Dollar versus the Euro, I suspect that even the intro price will be high.    I suspect that some of the delay in intro'ing the Kapex in the US is the Euro to Dollar conversion rate. 

Here's the current chart of the $USD (US Dollar Index):
[attachthumb=#]

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Woodenfish]

Several months ago, many people (including me) believed that the intro price would be just under $1,000.  Now, given the abysmal state of the Dollar versus the Euro, I suspect that even the intro price will be high.      I suspect that some of the delay in intro'ing the Kapex in the US is the Euro to Dollar conversion rate.   

Here's the current chart of the $USD (US Dollar Index):
[attachthumb=#]

Regards,

Dan.

Dan, If the reason for the delay is as you stated, "the abysmal state of the Dollar versus the Euro," that would be a poor decision for any European manufacturer to make and not just Festool. The fact is, is that many Europeans pay more for European produced goods then we do here in the states for the very same products because of the higher costs of doing business there. Reportedly many Europeans have been flying into the US lately carrying empty luggage bags to take advantage of this Euro/Dollar price differential which has created profit and jobs for American business owners and their employees. The last time I checked the Canadian economy was faltering do to the price valuation against the US Dollar too. As their dollar came to be of equal value their advantage of being a low cost producer was hampered by their higher tax rate making them less able to compete with the American worker. In other words, it's not America's problem that American worker's are highly competitive and the most productive workers in the world today.

After researching the product via the web I think that Festool may have some other issues in manufacturing that is creating the delay. Although the Kapex is for sale in many other regions of the world except NA, they seem to be available in very limited quantity.

Quoting what Llap Goch's wise dog Simou who amazingly wrote in the thread titled "Kapex ( Greek for Spending my Childrens Inheritence), "To me its an expensive way to cut a perfectly good piece of wood into two." That's it! That's the only trick this saw can do. There's no new space age materials, no precious metal components, no labor intensive parts that I can tell anywhere to justify the expense other than the parts you would normally find in a SCMS assembled with Festool logic. That's why I'm on the low side for now but like my wife tells me, I'm often wrong.

 

[Dan Clark]

I suspect that you are correct about other issues.  However, given the poor Euro to Dollar conversion rate, the price will probably be higher in what is the largest potential market for the Kapex (the US).  Now, combine these two factors... 

If the price is lower - say $1,000 - they may lose money but people might except less than a perfect product.  If they charge a serious premium over conventional saws (to make a profit), the Kapex has to be pretty much perfect.  They have to wring out the bugs and make it essentially "perfect" at it's intro into the US to be a success. 

All of this is speculation, but...

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

I currently use a Makita LS1214 12" SCMS. I like it because it is relatively light (lighter than the 10" Bosch SCMS), very accurate (though not quite as accurate as the LS1013), compact, and durable. I am a professional residential remodeler, and rely on my tools for a living. I am VERY curious and excited to see the Kapex in action. I just recently finally started buying Festool tools (have been buying empty Systainers for over a year), and am VERY impressed with their quality and ingenuity. The Kapex appears to be a remodeler's dream: a light weight, highly accurate saw with great cutting capacity. If Festool asks $1000 for it, I'll sell my Makita and pony up the difference to purchase it. If Festool asks closer to $1400 or $1500, I will have serious reservations about spending that kind of cash for a saw that will be riding around in my truck every day. If Festool asks in the $1500 range, I'm more likely to stick with my Makita and maybe upgrade once Makita releases a newer model. Just my two cents....

 

[Dan Clermont]

I own the Makita LS1013 and am very happy with it. I have an FS Tool blade on it which I really like and spent allot of money on.

I am really anal about dust in my shop cause it is a laundry room shared with some tenants. I don't like the dust caused by the Makita and currently use the CT-22 on the dust port and it does a reasonable job.

I'd consider selling off the FS Tool blade which I assume won't fit and replacing the saw with the KAPEX providing the KAPEX is no more then $1000. If it is more then that I don't think I could do it.... then yet again I never thought I'd pony up for a Rotex, TS-55, OF 1400, CT 22, Domino, C12, MFT and a small army of Sortainers  :

Dan Clermont