kapex & ts55 up in smoke

[woodwright]

as title says,  yet another Kapex up in smoke.  no warning or indication,  just billowed bluish smoke & quit.  it smells burnt as in electrically burnt.  about 2 months ago, my TS55 did the same thing.
also, last month my RO90 quit (didnt smoke out, just QUIT)

the speed control has failed on my OF1010 and OF1400 routers
so only speeds 5 and 6 work. I've been living with this for nearly a year now.

Kapex = dead
TS55 = dead
RO90 = dead
OF1010 = high rpm only
OF1400 = high rpm only

all warranty is expired or just barely expired

in more than 25yrs professional use, I have never "smoked" ANY other tool except a harbor freight porta-band, and lets face it, that doesnt really count as a real tool.

I have a significant investment in Festools and with the recent 5 failures,  3 of which = total failures, I am seriously regretting it.

Incidentally the tools are almost always run off a CT dust extractor, and I use them both at my shop and onsite.

what gives with these things?!

can anyone tell me what causes blue smoke, stalling out and ceasing to operate?
I suppose I am HOPING to be embarrassed by someone telling me to turn the brushes around (like old school Milwaukee drillmotors) but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[woodwright]

I suppose its time to get some help shooting youtube videos

this is just the major stuff,    all the rest is better shown than simply written about

up until a couple years ago, I was among the most die hard Festool fans
I anxiously awaited ( and purchased EVERY  Festool tool and accessory available

this morning, as I await enough sunlight to unload my overpriced junk and reload my truck with my old RELIABLE tools,  I'm trying to sort out what to say to everyone Ive either A. defended my position on buying $20-$30k worth of Festools,  B. suggested Festools or C. both

 

[waho6o9]

Wow

I'd ship it all back to Festool and get a quote on the repairs and then fish or cut bait.

 

[Throwback7r]

You might want to check the power supply to your workshop/jobsite" where ever you use them" to make sure it is wired correctly. These Festools seem to be picky on power.

 

[TylerC]

What type of power supply are you using? That could be a factor. I'd recommending calling the service department. 1-888-337-8600

 

[Locks14]

as title says,  yet another Kapex up in smoke.  no warning or indication,  just billowed bluish smoke & quit.  it smells burnt as in electrically burnt.  about 2 months ago, my TS55 did the same thing.
also, last month my RO90 quit (didnt smoke out, just QUIT)

the speed control has failed on my OF1010 and OF1400 routers
so only speeds 5 and 6 work. I've been living with this for nearly a year now.

Kapex = dead
TS55 = dead
RO90 = dead
OF1010 = high rpm only
OF1400 = high rpm only

all warranty is expired or just barely expired

in more than 25yrs professional use, I have never "smoked" ANY other tool except a harbor freight porta-band, and lets face it, that doesnt really count as a real tool.

I have a significant investment in Festools and with the recent 5 failures,  3 of which = total failures, I am seriously regretting it.

Incidentally the tools are almost always run off a CT dust extractor, and I use them both at my shop and onsite.

what gives with these things?!

can anyone tell me what causes blue smoke, stalling out and ceasing to operate?
I suppose I am HOPING to be embarrassed by someone telling me to turn the brushes around (like old school Milwaukee drillmotors) but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm no diehard, non-questioning, Festool fanboy. But, even to me, the odds of all this happening to one person seems to not sit well. It must be (as suggested above) some external issue with power, damp, etc in the working environment.

 

[woodwright]

My cabinet shop has been in continuous operation for 25years as of this past November.
The Festools are used only be me, and they're babied.

I have checked, re-checked and even hired (Just this morning) a Master Electrician to check my shop personally.  no problems found,  and not a single other tool, even those that used to be abused by my crew, has ever failed entirely like these.

The electrician did raise an eyebrow at the notion of the miter saw plugged into a dust extractor and cycled repeatedly under heavy load (think about cutting 7"maple crown all day. -Thats about the hardest the Kapex has ever been used,  usually though, it is Cherry, Beech or Walnut faceframes rails & stiles

but the TS55, sander & the two routers?

 

[Holmz]

My ct26 died quickly with the water sensor hosed, but repaired and is fine now.

The main way to give up the smoke is with heat. It could be possible to have static and blow out some if the electronics but not burning them up. So they must be getting pushed beyond their design limits. One would assume that the design limits are maintained with some circuitry for preventing out of limit operation(??).... Many things these days are designed to meet the requirements with minimal margin.

 

[Tayler_mann]

It is definitely an electrical problem. I know a few people that have had their Festools problem free for years upon years.

The electrician may have monitored the service but did he monitor it when you are running table saws dust collectors sanders vacuums miter saws and etc all at the same time.

I don't believe in coincedence and that is to many problems for one purchaser and it sounds they all had the same life span for the most part. Also NO extension chords.

 

[whitesys]

There are power event recorders available.
Also, an intelligent UPS (e.g. APC Smart-UPS) will also record these power events.

There may be an intermittent overvoltage issue caused by something outside your workshop causing this.
Also possible that any industrial or agricultural facilities on the same utility line could cause this.
Could also be a tap-changer at your substation causing and overvoltage or spike.

record the power events for a week or more and see what shows up.

You should not have this much equipment damaged without some root cause.

 

[Ajax]

What are the odds that all of these tools went down due to manufacturing or design problems?  I think you have better odds being struck by lightning.

 

[DB10]

Intermittent over-voltage sounds plausible but If these problems were caused by an unexpected  overload voltage, then why is it only the Festools that are affected by this, what about the non Festools in your workshop, how have they held up.

 

[Holmz]

Over voltage or static voltage seems somewhat likely.
But to burn out a motor???

The fact that the other tools run fine and only the Festools die is plausible if the same design fault is present, which is likely as they are from the same designers and suppliers.

There is over voltage under voltage, over/under frequency, and potentially static entering from another path such as the ground or neutral, or dust collection.
I am not sure whether the tools even run a ground??

An inductive load can create spikes on either the active or the neutral. There lightning arresters and similar for preventing spikes. A scope on the lines and running inductive loads would be a good place to start, but I am leaning towards the tools as motors smoking is different that electronics getting over voltage.

 

[Bohdan]

It is interesting that most, if not all, of the motors that go up in smoke seem to be 110v units and I would like to hear from any foggers that have blown up 230v units.

A point to consider is that these tools were designed in Germany for 230v but when a motor is rewired to run on 110v the heat that is generated by the current flow is doubled. This will result in the motor running hotter most of the time. The overheat protection electronics will normally protect it from damage but if that electronics is susceptible to heat and fails then the motor may go up in smoke.

 

[Holmz]

Sounds pretty reasonable.
I buy 230v units as I am wary of the performance of the tools... NAINA al the way.

 

[Kev]

I really don't want to cast doubt on the person suffering issues ... but ... it seems to be a common pattern of late for a person to come onto the FOG and tell us about multiple Festool failures.

Long term regular posters rarely seem to experience the sort of issues the new posters experience [huh]

Is it simply that the people that experience Festool issues look for somewhere to express their discontent?

 

[Holmz]

I really don't want to cast doubt on the person suffering issues ... but ... it seems to be a common pattern of late for a person to come onto the FOG and tell us about multiple Festool failures.

Long term regular posters rarely seem to experience the sort of issues the new posters experience [huh]

Is it simply that the people that experience Festool issues look for somewhere to express their discontent?

If they do then here is a good place.
I consider the post of face value, but I am generally wary of BS and marketing designed to look like a post, so your point is valid.

 

[Gary_L]

When I spend the kind of money needed to buy a Festool product I expect long term reliability. If they are that power sensitive then the manufacture should build them accordingly as do all of the other manufacturers. I have a 10 + year old Makita with soft start and have used this saw every where and never had a problem including with extension cords. My Kapex died plugged into the same outlet and power source as my Makita was and my 2 year old glide. Both of them still work.

 

[Holmz]

When I spend the kind of money needed to buy a Festool product I expect long term reliability. If they are that power sensitive then the manufacture should build them accordingly as do all of the other manufacturers. I have a 10 + year old Makita with soft start and have used this saw every where and never had a problem including with extension cords. My Kapex died plugged into the same outlet and power source as my Makita was and my 2 year old glide. Both of them still work.

However some people are in denial that they may not be perfect.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

It is interesting that most, if not all, of the motors that go up in smoke seem to be 110v units and I would like to hear from any foggers that have blown up 230v units.

A point to consider is that these tools were designed in Germany for 230v but when a motor is rewired to run on 110v the heat that is generated by the current flow is doubled. This will result in the motor running hotter most of the time. The overheat protection electronics will normally protect it from damage but if that electronics is susceptible to heat and fails then the motor may go up in smoke.

Halfing the volts does not double the heat rise.