kapex & ts55 up in smoke

[Staniam]

It does seem a bit odd that only the OP's Festool items have malfunctioned on him. Also odd they all seem to have gone down at the same time. Interested to read what everyone else has to say.

 

[ghostofhoward]

Mine is primarily used for trimwork, about 6 -7 houses per year. The rest of the time it's in my shop where I do an occasional furniture or small cabinetry job. So bottom line, it's a defective design and should have been recalled or had an additional warranty period added for this particular problem. Without a doubt, unless they work with me on the repair, I will not purchase another and will encourage anyone who will listen to stay away  [mad]

 

[Cheese]

[member=41883]woodwright[/member]
As others have suggested, I'd perform some extended time monitoring of the incoming electrical service. It sounds like some "every once in a while" electrical spikes may be the source of your tool issues.

I own and use the Fluke 289 logging miltimeter to resolve many electrical/heating issues. It will log up to 15,000 events and the batteries in logging mode have a life of 200 hours for extended monitoring capabilities. Fluke also includes software so that you can download the data to a spreadsheet for easier visual inspection. Price is around $600 but they are also available at some tool rental shops. I'd suggest monitoring the electrical supply line for at least 5-10 days.
http://www.fluke.com/fluke/tten/Digital-Multimeters/Fluke-289.htm?PID=56061
http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/3032823_6116_ENG_B_W.PDF

 

[Holmz]

Would you check voltage or each side relative to ground?
If they both floated high in common-mode...

 

[glass1]

The tools should be designed to work with the power that's available.  If other tools are not failing when using the same power it is a design flaw  Cut and dry. Stop making excuses.  Festool Step up and fix it .  All the people looking for outside causes are just enablers. Design the tools for the conditions that exist on the ground. " professional tools for professionals"

 

[peter halle]

I suppose that it would be outrageously expensive and undoable to design a tool that would work with any length or quantities of unknown gauge extension cords, or any brand of generator, on possibly dirty power situations, or lets throw in possibly mis-wired shops, or any other sort of situations. 

These are all real world situations.  All of which can affect the tool.  That is not to say that there will not also be manufacturing issues.

But if someone can do this please let me know and I will buy your tool.  But I also want a 20 year warranty because of the price you will be charging.  And because you will be new to to the industry and don't have 90 years of experience I want to have the warranty backed by a prepaid non cancelable surety bond because I might be the only one who will pay your price, and if you fold I am done.

Peter

 

[glass1]

Yet other scms last for years and years. Your devils advocate argument is predictable. I think your defensive stance proves you understand what I am talking about. Enough said. I own plenty of festools. The kapex because of its light weight portability dust collection etc is a frustrating tool due to its numerous problems, armature failure, leaky arbor, inflation deck, etc. Just saying it's time for a new design. Cheers. Merry Christmas.

 

[peter halle]

I'll agree to disagree.

Thank you for your wishes.  All the best to you and yours.

Peter

 

[Gary_L]

Peter, making a bullet proof toll is cost prohibitive. Making one that will run on an extension cord not too bad. Ran my 12" Makita with soft start all summer on a 100' 12 gauge cord without any trouble. Saw was less than half the cost. It's over 10 years old and still works as it should today. Had it in my shop in four about 5 years used every day. Replaced it with a Kapex put in the same place plugged into the same outlet and the Kapex went out for repairs 3 times. It's too bad. I liked the saw but when it shuts me down that's a problem.

You can defend it all you want but the saw isn't tough enough imagine if the motor was a little tougher the money that would be saved shipping these around and repairing them.

I spent 18 years working for a German manufacturer and this attitude is so typical. Great tools just not up to the task.

 

[peter halle]

Gary,

I have no idea if there is a wide-spread issue.  Every manufacturer has an expected return or failure rate.  There might also be underlying factors is some reported cases.  I was trying to point out that also including manufacturer' defects there might be other influences and that blanket statements about "this should be covered" or "this should be redesigned", etc are not the answers to all.

I have had my Kapex since the spring of 2010.  I personally haven't had an issue and I cut everything from framing to trim on mine.  But I totally understand and respect other's feelings when they have an issue - especially yours.  I wish I could magically come up with the answer.

Peter

 

[Gary_L]

Thanks Peter. If they ever make the saw more reliable I would consider another but can't take the chance until then. As I said I really liked the saw but the motor is its Achilles heel.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Gary,

I have no idea if there is a wide-spread issue.  Every manufacturer has an expected return or failure rate.  There might also be underlying factors is some reported cases.....

I don't know how wide spread this issue is.  It does seem to be an issue since this topic comes up often here.  Tools made for professionals need to be built to withstand hard use in a variety of conditions and environments.  I'd also add they need to be able to withstand a certain amount of abuse.  We don't plan on dropping our cordless drills off a step ladder but when we do we expect them to come through unscathed.  I'm not saying the Kapex should be able to survive a drop off a ladder, still, it should be able to be run off an extension cord or cope with some degree of voltage fluctuation.

With a high price tag comes high expectations.  For the price Festool charges this saw should be bullet proof. 

   

 

[Stephen B]

[size=13pt]I think this is a North American problem. There seems to be little if no complaints here about 240V Kapex models, APART FROM PRICE.

Is it related to the 'stability' in amps and voltage of electrical distribution in the US when compared to some other first world countries? This is a question, not a statement of fact. Or is it a reflection of the size of the US market? More units sold, more faulty units, but percentage faulty equal to other Festool markets? 110V UK machines are seldom discussed here as having problems when compared to the number of threads that discuss motor and electronics problems with US Kapex models.

However,  a common problem with both voltages is long extension leads. But then many tool companies in their small print suggest not to use long extension leads.

 

[Cheese]

...it should be able to be run off an extension cord or cope with some degree of voltage fluctuation.

Brice, I agree with you however, because we are still in the cause and affect mode, we have no idea what the degree of voltage fluctuation is, if any, and that's the reason why I suggested that the OP monitor his incoming voltage because we have no clue as to the breadth of swings of voltage his equipment is subjected to. It's extremely unlikely that 5 Festools went toes-up for no reason at all. Just like any investigation, data has to be gathered and examined before a conclusion can be offered to the public because there are a ton of ambulance chasers out there and they're quick to offer an opinion, whether it's based on facts or fantasy...das macht nichts to them, which is unfortunate because a lot of the actual facts just get lost in the din of their shouting.

 

[Cheese]

Would you check voltage or each side relative to ground?
If they both floated high in common-mode...

Point well taken, because of the various threads stating this was a 110 volt issue I assumed the OP was from the US, however at this point I don't really know where he/she's from. So I guess if it is a 220/240 tool, I'd start by checking the voltage and if I found an aberration, I'd then start to check each side relative to ground. 

110 is so much easier to deal with than 220/240

 

[Cheese]

[size=13pt]I think this is a North American problem. There seems to be little if no complaints here about 240V Kapex models, APART FROM PRICE.

You may be correct...it may be as simple as a dirty voltage/supply issue. It's pretty weird that these saws are sold worldwide, yet once every 2-3 weeks there is a post of a Kapex in the US going toes-up while from the rest of the world it's radio silence. The silence is deafening... [eek]

 

[Bohdan]

Would you check voltage or each side relative to ground?
If they both floated high in common-mode...

Most of the tools were 110v plugits (i.e. double insulated (except the Kapex which might be earthed)) so if both lines floated high it should not cause any issues but it is interesting that in England their 110v system has each line at 55v above earth and no smoke.

 

[Holmz]

Would you check voltage or each side relative to ground?
If they both floated high in common-mode...

Point well taken, because of the various threads stating this was a 110 volt issue I assumed the OP was from the US, however at this point I don't really know where he/she's from. So I guess if it is a 220/240 tool, I'd start by checking the voltage and if I found an aberration, I'd then start to check each side relative to ground. 

110 is so much easier to deal with than 220/240

I am specifically thinking if the centre tap of the transformer was not tied to ground at the pole, then the delta from active to neutral would be 110v, but hey both could float high or low. where they would potentially arc is uncertain, as there is not ground in many double insulated tools.

I agree it is worthwhile to check and exonerate the voltage. Because all his tools are failing there seems to be a correlation... with possible mechanisms of:
1) It is something common with his used of them
2) It is something common with his shop
3) It is something common with the power
4) It is something common with the design of the tools
5) It is that just statistically what happens, albeit rarely.

These tools seem well designed, but that is not exactly the same as well engineered.
Ideally one wants both.

 

[Kev]

110 is so much easier to deal with than 220/240

[member=44099]Cheese[/member]

On what grounds ? (pun intended)

[huh]

 

[Holmz]

I will remain neutral.