Kapex Turntable Issue Identification
- Thread starter Rick Christopherson
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Tom the Remodeler
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Eiji Fuller said:
My thoughts exactly!!!
Steve Jones
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Did you really find grease in there? (I don't own a Kapex to check) it's more usual to leave it dry or use dry (powdered) lubricant, if you want to lube it (and its dry) you can get away with marking the whole track with a pencil (Graphite is a great dry lube) if the track is dry (no grease) don't add any because it'll clog up overtime with sawdust and get thicker.
Eiji Fuller said:
Eiji,
I asked a similar question on a different Kapex thread......http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=4565.msg49211#msg49211 (reply #49) a while back.
"Just out of curiostiy, as a temporary fix in the meantime.......has anyone with these issues tried some dry lube on the rubbing surfaces?"
such as this......http://www.aerotechdesigns.com/whitelightninglube.htm
to which Brice responded......"Roger, lube isn't recommended because the parts that are scraping are the same parts that lock the miter, lube could cause the miter setting to slip during use."
Roger
Steve Jones
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Everyone was actually talking about the turntable bearing surface (bottom outer edge) which COULD benefit from some lubrication (and a good re-design) and the last quote is about the miter lock which doesn't need lubrication (a good re-design is the only thing that will help), different parts of the same machine (although your confusion is understandable)
Roger, I have tried dry lube on the miter scale to no avail. My saw started to scrape after 15 min. of use and has stayed tight even after two weeks of collecting dust. Waiting on the dealer for replacement parts. I doubt the fix given is the answer.What a dissapointment ! 
Woodenfish
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- Jan 26, 2007
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Out of all of the various reviews by the folks who received their Kapex for free prior to the public release, why was there absolutely no mention of this defect when it seems like this problem is common?
Things that make me say hmmmmm!
Things that make me say hmmmmm!
Jerry Work
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Me thinks the conspiracy theories are a bit off base here. All this hubub is over a clamping spring that seems to be overly tight on some machines...... Hmmmm.
I received my machine shortly before US product release. Had no issue until I put it to significant use and then the scraping of the clamping spring seemed to gall the under side of the index plate. From the time that issue arose on my machine until I found a temporary solution and reported it to Festool and here was 48 hours. Sure doesn't sound like a purposeful withholding of mention of a defect to me. Further, it is neither a major defect nor a "poor" design issue from my POV. I have no "insider" info but is sure seems to me that it is simply one component, the clamping spring, that appears to have been revised shortly before units started arriving in the US. Some machines had the revised spring plate and some of those experienced the scraping issue after significant use while others had the previous spec spring plate and have not had the issue. I have found no evidence of anyone withholding info or trying to hide anything. All I have seen is an activist group of owners and those interested sharing experiences and quick temporary fixes until Festool finishes its own root cause analysis and comes forth with a recommended solution. Sounds like good, sound, prudent corporate response from a company with which I enjoy doing business.
Jerry
I received my machine shortly before US product release. Had no issue until I put it to significant use and then the scraping of the clamping spring seemed to gall the under side of the index plate. From the time that issue arose on my machine until I found a temporary solution and reported it to Festool and here was 48 hours. Sure doesn't sound like a purposeful withholding of mention of a defect to me. Further, it is neither a major defect nor a "poor" design issue from my POV. I have no "insider" info but is sure seems to me that it is simply one component, the clamping spring, that appears to have been revised shortly before units started arriving in the US. Some machines had the revised spring plate and some of those experienced the scraping issue after significant use while others had the previous spec spring plate and have not had the issue. I have found no evidence of anyone withholding info or trying to hide anything. All I have seen is an activist group of owners and those interested sharing experiences and quick temporary fixes until Festool finishes its own root cause analysis and comes forth with a recommended solution. Sounds like good, sound, prudent corporate response from a company with which I enjoy doing business.
Jerry
When we sent product out to corporate for review or had reviewing panels, management hovered over the project right out the door to make certain it was perfect.
I can still remember our production manager on his knees with a permanent marker touching up our logo on the cases. I just wish that guy would have worn a belt!
I can still remember our production manager on his knees with a permanent marker touching up our logo on the cases. I just wish that guy would have worn a belt!
Brice Burrell
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Woodenfish said:
I was one of the pepole that recieved a Kapex from Festool (for free) to review. Here is a quote from my review:
"The Kapex is manufactured with relatively tight tolerances. The good part is that the saw is precise, with almost no slop or deflection, this produces great cuts. The other side is the saw is a little stiff in the mitering and beveling of the saw. I expect these to break in over time and move more smoothly." - Brice Burrell, copyright 2008
I mentioned the stiffness of the saw in the excerpt above, I believed the saw would break in because I had hands on time with the Kapex while at the Festool training center and that saw wasn't any where near as stiff as mine was out of the box. I also mentioned in the review I hadn't spent much time with the saw to see how it holds up, (I was thinking long term). How was I to know problems might develop much sooner.
I spoke with Chris Mercado when he started having problems with his saw. He was reluctant to post on FOG about his issue, he didn't want to start a panic. He was the first person that I hear of that was having trouble with his saw. I encouraged him to post the problem and he did when he had a little more info about the problem and after he had worked with Festool to try to solve his problem. At this point he and I didn't know how many people were having this issue, maybe he was the only?? As more and more people started posting with the spring plate problem we started to get some sense that this wasn't an isolated incident. I didn't start to have a problem with my saw until July 17th when in started to grind on the top of the miter scale from the clamping tab (I posted pics of my problem in Chris' thread). Before that I wouldn't say I had a "problem" with my saw. The point is my saw had seen on and off use and it didn't develop the problem until later like a few other members have reported with their saws.
Brice's comment are correct as are Jerry's. When I'm on a job doing molding I'm cutting a bunch of it. I've never counted but it's hundreds of cuts each day. Brice's statements all hold true and Jerry Work posted right away and since he was in the middle of a job he just performed a quick fix for himself and documented it so some of us could learn from it. I think some of the earlier saws like Rick C's, Gary K., The Silva's etc., not that you'd probably hear if there was an issue but they probably didn't have it. Mine both worked fine right up to the point where they didn't. That was after hours of cutting. I miter, left and right constantly and I'd bet many others (Let's say Lucas) most of the time just sit there. Maybe an occasional 90 degree cut but it's not like it's out on a job site under heavy use. So he probably doesn't have an issue and might not.
They had replacement plates on hand and ready before I even had my problem(s) I wish they had the forethought to get the plates sent to the dealer and switch them out before they got into our hands. I have an issue with them not understanding which saws have/might have the wrong plates. This is where I'm struggling with this whole thing and state that they are reaching for a fix.
Festool did respond to people with an issue with a new plate (i got 2 different ones for some reason) and even included a T20 Torx driver sent overnight air. That is a great way for the company to respond (I bet a lot of manuf. would make you send it in, or return it). When I had the lock up on top (first saw) it was replaced right away. The 2nd saw locked up and I replaced the plate since I had one from the first saw and it's still working ok, although I haven't got to use it heavily since replacing the plate. I'm not sure what the next steps are. I know Festool is disappointed and embarrassed by the issues whether large or small. I'm sure they will do what they can to keep our Kapex's running. Festool USA (Christian, et al) are going to have their hands tied somewhat, waiting on the parent company and manufacturing end to make more permanent changes to the unit. A lot of us here know the Festool folks like David M., Steve B., Allen K., etc. personally (not friends of course but acquaintances) and know they'll do what they can to ensure we get what we need and are happy with our tool purchase. I don't have any gripes whatsoever about Festool USA.
I think we can all agree that they really let us down on the table/table lock design. The saw does have some really great features and is built well. I'm of course paranoid that I'm going to have more issues with the turret. When I fails it still somewhat usable in a sense that you can turn it, it's just really tough to do it and wastes time. But I can at least finish the job. It's just switching back over to the Dewalt is not a quick and easy issue due to stand/table considerations.
The horrendous looking Hitachi C12LSH has micro adjust on the bevel and miter table (it's not really advertised for even having the miter micro adjust). It's also one of the smoothest saws to turn/adjust. Do I want one, heck no...
We probably aren't going to get anywhere else on this table issue for now. It's really just making a decision about whether to buy the saw or not, and/or to keep or return one if you've got it. That's where I'm at... I'll let you know what my decision is and why when it comes. It's really all up to me now and not Festool.
Chris...
They had replacement plates on hand and ready before I even had my problem(s) I wish they had the forethought to get the plates sent to the dealer and switch them out before they got into our hands. I have an issue with them not understanding which saws have/might have the wrong plates. This is where I'm struggling with this whole thing and state that they are reaching for a fix.
Festool did respond to people with an issue with a new plate (i got 2 different ones for some reason) and even included a T20 Torx driver sent overnight air. That is a great way for the company to respond (I bet a lot of manuf. would make you send it in, or return it). When I had the lock up on top (first saw) it was replaced right away. The 2nd saw locked up and I replaced the plate since I had one from the first saw and it's still working ok, although I haven't got to use it heavily since replacing the plate. I'm not sure what the next steps are. I know Festool is disappointed and embarrassed by the issues whether large or small. I'm sure they will do what they can to keep our Kapex's running. Festool USA (Christian, et al) are going to have their hands tied somewhat, waiting on the parent company and manufacturing end to make more permanent changes to the unit. A lot of us here know the Festool folks like David M., Steve B., Allen K., etc. personally (not friends of course but acquaintances) and know they'll do what they can to ensure we get what we need and are happy with our tool purchase. I don't have any gripes whatsoever about Festool USA.
I think we can all agree that they really let us down on the table/table lock design. The saw does have some really great features and is built well. I'm of course paranoid that I'm going to have more issues with the turret. When I fails it still somewhat usable in a sense that you can turn it, it's just really tough to do it and wastes time. But I can at least finish the job. It's just switching back over to the Dewalt is not a quick and easy issue due to stand/table considerations.
The horrendous looking Hitachi C12LSH has micro adjust on the bevel and miter table (it's not really advertised for even having the miter micro adjust). It's also one of the smoothest saws to turn/adjust. Do I want one, heck no...
We probably aren't going to get anywhere else on this table issue for now. It's really just making a decision about whether to buy the saw or not, and/or to keep or return one if you've got it. That's where I'm at... I'll let you know what my decision is and why when it comes. It's really all up to me now and not Festool.
Chris...
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