Kapex: uneven cutting surface fixed!

[clutzer]

MODIFICATION OF YOUR TOOL WILL RESULT IN VOIDING THE WARRANTY. CONTACT FESTOOL SERVICE FOR ASSISTANCE WITH ANY REQUIRED REPAIRS.


[ Edited by Shane Holland to note warranty policy ]

I unboxed my Kapex and noticed (as several others have) that the turret was not flush with the rest of the base ("deck").  Some folks have returned their saw to correct this problem, but I wanted to take a crack at fixing mine before returning a nearly perfectly working saw.

I was successful by removing my turret and shimming the metal guides that act as a surface for the turret to rotate on.  My turret is now flush as tested with my square.

I'll list the steps I followed in case anyone else is interested.

1. Remove the fence by removing the stops with a torx screw driver
2. Remove the fence mounting assembly with the provided Allen wrench
3. Remove the 6 screws retaining the "plastic zero clearance inserts" with a torx screwdriver
4. Remove the nut holding the turret.  Take care not to lose the metal washer, the nut, and the cone-shaped washer
5. Examine your metal guides.  I cleaned up and polished my mating surfaces a bit (there was gunk and overspray on them)--not sure if that helped at all
6. Unscrew any guides that makes sense for your situation and shim them.  I traced the metal guide and cut out the matching shape out of printer paper.
7. Place the shim(s) under the metal guide and screw the guides back in.
8. Reassemble.  Note 1: the cone-shaped washer needs to be "upright" (like a traffic cone would be) as it applies pressure to the turret base to keep things snug.  Note 2: don't torque the turret nut too tightly, it just needs to be snug.

I put a fiber washer that I got from home depot under the cone-shaped washer simply to add some more material to snug things up against, and to act like a wearable part so the cone-shaped washer isn't digging into the turret material.

The first image below is the turret before the modification.  The last picture is the turret after.

 

[bub254]

I've recently received my Kapex ad have the same problem.  I'm not sure how shimming the high center deck will help to even out the surfaces when the center is too high.

 

[clutzer]

It worked for me because my turret did not sit "level" on the base.  A shim made it level which made the turrets and the deck line up.  I'd try pressing down on your turret with the palm of your hand to see if you can make it level out.

 

[bub254]

I'll have to try but my turret is uniformly high on both sides.

 

[clutzer]

Yeah give it a shot.  You might find some debris or extra paint or something.

 

[Ajax]

So you paid >$1000 for a brand new miter saw and had to fix it yourself?

I don't get this love affair with the Kapex.  We Festool owners knock at other tools that are subpar when compared to the Festool equivalent, but we make excuses for or put blinders on for the Kapex. I just don't get it.

When Festool addresses these issues and releases a Kapex 2 I'll consider getting one. Until then....

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

I would like to reiterate what I said in the original thread.

Rather that checking your saw with all types of measuring devices, make some cuts. I think you'll find that this "problem" isn't a problem at all when it comes to the cut results.

We don’t recommend modifying the saw in any way.  The table is designed to float and self-level while cutting.  The result of the cut is what’s important, not the levelness of the table.  The design of the table is unlike any other miter saw on the market that I know of.  Just because the table does not appear to be flat, doesn't mean that you will not get good cut results.  The purpose of spring washer is to allow the table float.

So, please do not modify your saw. If you feel that there's an issue with any of your tools, contact our service department.

 

[clutzer]

So you paid >$1000 for a brand new miter saw and had to fix it yourself?

I don't get this love affair with the Kapex.  We Festool owners knock at other tools that are subpar when compared to the Festool equivalent, but we make excuses for or put blinders on for the Kapex. I just don't get it.

When Festool addresses these issues and releases a Kapex 2 I'll consider getting one. Until then....

Festool's response to myself and my dealer was that the type of precision I am looking for will not be found with the Kapex, but rather with metal working tools.  Their stance is that the offset between some turrets and bases is well within tolerances for woodworkers.  So, there is not necessarily a good chance this will ever be resolved.

 

[clutzer]

I would like to reiterate what I said in the original thread.

Rather that checking your saw with all types of measuring devices, make some cuts. I think you'll find that this "problem" isn't a problem at all when it comes to the cut results.

We don’t recommend modifying the saw in any way.  The table is designed to float and self-level while cutting.  The result of the cut is what’s important, not the levelness of the table.  The design of the table is unlike any other miter saw on the market that I know of.  Just because the table does not appear to be flat, doesn't mean that you will not get good cut results.  The purpose of spring washer is to allow the table float.

So, please do not modify your saw. If you feel that there's an issue with any of your tools, contact our service department.

I don't necessarily see this being different than the modification required to zero the stop on the TS 55 REQ that seems to be supported by Festool.  I made a guide adjustment, which is exactly what I had to do to my TS 55 REQ.

 

[overanalyze]

I would like to reiterate what I said in the original thread.

Rather that checking your saw with all types of measuring devices, make some cuts. I think you'll find that this "problem" isn't a problem at all when it comes to the cut results.

We don’t recommend modifying the saw in any way.  The table is designed to float and self-level while cutting.  The result of the cut is what’s important, not the levelness of the table.  The design of the table is unlike any other miter saw on the market that I know of.  Just because the table does not appear to be flat, doesn't mean that you will not get good cut results.  The purpose of spring washer is to allow the table float.

So, please do not modify your saw. If you feel that there's an issue with any of your tools, contact our service department.

I think this is is a perfect response. I don't get all the super precise staright edges, feeler guages, etc. The last thing I ever thought of was checking my Kapex with that type of equipment. I cut miters and wood with it. Thats is what it is for. My results are far better than my other saw the Kapex replaced. I know it is a lot of coin for a tool, but does it perform it's job? That is all that matters.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

I don't necessarily see this being different than the modification required to zero the stop on the TS 55 REQ that seems to be supported by Festool.  I made a guide adjustment, which is exactly what I had to do to my TS 55 REQ.

Respectfully, we (Festool) have NOT advocated any end customer modification to any tool, including the TS 55.

Modification of your tool will void the warranty.

 

[Cheese]

Festool's response to myself and my dealer was that the type of precision I am looking for will not be found with the Kapex, but rather with metal working tools.  Their stance is that the offset between some turrets and bases is well within tolerances for woodworkers.  So, there is not necessarily a good chance this will ever be resolved.

Exactly, what are your tolerance expectations?
.005" ....a Kapex...$1400
.001"....a Bridgeport...$40,000
.0005"...a jig grinder...$150,000
I'm a metal guy and I expect to hold tolerances of +/- .002". But in wood this is just not practical. Think about it, this is wood, cut it today, let it absorb the moisture of tomorrow and by the 3rd day out it will be outside of specs. It is what it is...relax...take a breath.
If you don't like the results, just return it within the time frame. Easy...peasy. Don't rag on...

 

[jacko9]

If anybody told you that the tolerance expectation for the Kapex was 0.005" that would be totally acceptable but, reports of alignment offsets of 1.5mm (0.060") is a little off base as far as expectations for a quality tool. Since I don't have my Kapex I can't say from any personal experience (but I will shortly). 

 

[Cheese]

I don't care about "others reports of alignmentt". Everyone has a story and an ax to grind. The bottom line is, I have a project, I make the cuts I need with the Kapex, if they don't pony up to my needs, I return the equipment. Simple. Use the tool and judge for yourself if it will fulfill your needs. If it does not, use the 30 day return policy and then purchase the Bridgeport.

 

[Jason Kehl]

What the heck, I might as well jump on this bandwagon too.

I have 2 Kapex, 1 lives in the shop and is used mostly for cabinetry and furniture, including rough cutting 8/4 hard maple. The 2nd Kapex is the site saw, it gets used for everything: pressure treated decking, general framing, exterior siding and final finishing. The only change between tasks is puttting in the appropriate blade for the task at hand.

Some ask what the love affair is with the Kapex and accuse those who like them of being fanboys. I think that for most the "love affair" with the Kapex is the combination of light weight, small footprint and good dust collection all while maintaining a large cutting capacity. No other mitre saw as all of those qualities. That's why I have Kapex anyway.

There certainly is some "fanboy" attitude on FOG, there is no denying that! Why is this a surprise though?  Everyone has a sports team, musical band/artist, vehicle brand, political party etc...that they tout as being better than the rest, why expect tool brand loyalties to be any different?

Similarly there are some who seem to want to find a reason to not like Festool, we all have biases. In fairness to those who are holding Festool accountable; Festool does deliberately market themselves as a high end precision tool manufacturer and charges accordingly for the tools they make. It should come as no surprise to Festool that if you market yourself as being better than the rest you need to expect to challenged to meet these claims.

Personally almost all my tool purchaes in the past few years have either been Festool or Mafell. Both are very expensive compared to the  "regular" brands and to me they are worth it. They are not perfcet though, sometimes I wonder why for such an expensive tool didn't the manufacturer do.... instead?

I have never had what I consider to be a significant problem with my Kapex, not saying that others haven't had real issues with theirs. If it's broken, get it fixed, if it's not broken put it to work. If the motor slows when cutting wet or dense lumber, slow the feed rate a little bit and it should work fine.

It has never occurred to me to inspect the Kapex (or any of my tools) with precision straight edges and feeler gauges; it's a saw, saws cut wood, go cut some wood.

j

 

[WPeters]

wow.  just wow...

 

[Carl Prentiss]

wow.  just wow...

I'll tell you the truth. I'm a little confused by your tactics.
So I'm gonna keep acting tough until I figure it out. Alright?

Sorry, couldn't help myself.

 

[jbasen]

I have an alternative fix that doesn't require modifying the Kapex.

My new Kapex is dead flat on the right side but the deck is .015" low on the left.  I do agree with weekendwarrior, in the prior thead, that there is an expectation that a Festool product is going to be precise in both manufacture and use.  I also agree with Shane that the real proof is in how well the tool works. 

When I purchased my Kapex I also purchased two, Crown Stop/Base Extensions to give me a slightly broader support surface since the full UG extensions wouldn't work in my shop situation.  By placing some shim material behind the plastic piece on the left side base extension I was able to level it perfectly with the rest of the Kapex.  Now, even though there is still a .015 drop in the left deck, the base extension supports the work piece properly and when making a cut the saw cuts a perfect 90 degree angle.  Which, as Shane pointed out, is the important part.

So, the solution for me was very simple and the saw operates perfectly.  [big grin]

 

[jacko9]

I just unpacked my Kapex and the sides and turret are dead flat (just as I would have expected).  Now the dreaded part "reading the manual" to see where the locks, etc are located.

I already appreciate the weight savings over my 12" DeWalt slider but for "free" my  son will appreciate it a lot.

Jack

 

[jacko9]

The online supplemental manual is excellent and I can report that my Kapex cuts clean and accurate (furniture quality).  I used my 36mm hose and my CT22 and even though there is a few chips there is no cloud of dust that I have become used to with my older DeWalt (even though it was also hooked up to my CT22).

I as happy as can be at the moment and with a three year door to door warranty I just made a great purchase.

Jack