Kapex up in smoke = Expensive

terrystouf

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Joined
Mar 14, 2010
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Another kapex up in smoke , $758 cdn repair bill with the shipping , awesome .I have ad it 4 years ,it is great saw ,I dont use it every day but I have trimmed out maybe 25000 sq ft with it in that time .The armature burnt , seems not too uncommon considering 1/2 the units sold are probably trophy tools for upscale hobbyists . Seems like a bit of money ,but the new repair will have a 6 month warranty . I briefly thought of garbage canning it and maybe I should have , one more repair is pushing a new saw price . I dont expect it would last forever ,just thought  I would share my experience ..
 
Could have bought a new glide and had money left over for dinner. Mine blew after 1 1/2 years. Shut me down for a few days. Got it back and dumped it. I like the saw but need reliability. This saw is lacking that.
 
Gary_L said:
Could have bought a new glide and had money left over for dinner. Mine blew after 1 1/2 years. Shut me down for a few days. Got it back and dumped it. I like the saw but need reliability. This saw is lacking that.

Another vote for the Bosch Glide. I find mine faultless and have had a good few years with lots of heavy workhorse miles from trim to 4x4 posts.
 
I bought a Kapex in July.  I have zero fear that my Festools will fail me EXCEPT for the Kapex.  I was on the fence between the Kapex and the Bosch Glide.  I knew about the Kapex issues but was drawn to it because of the dust control, light weight, and overall design.  The Bosch was such a beast.  Now I'm thinking I made a mistake.  I love my Kapex, but I've noticed that its more prone to kickback and the stand for it, while elegant and light weight, is asininely expensive.  $600 for tubular aluminum frame with wheels?  Another $200 for wings?

I don't feel this way about any of my other Festools.
 
[member=8102]terrystouf[/member]

I get that your miffed about your KAPEX ... but I don't understand why you find it necessary to be derogatory about some hobbyists

[scratch chin] [scratch chin]

Did a hobbyist with a KAPEX hurt you at some point in the past? [big grin]

...

I doubt that we'll ever get to the bottom of why certain KAPEX saws fail. I'd be curious to know the conditions the failed machines were used in (on generators, using long extension leads, etc) .. not to defend the failures .. just to understand what the exceptional conditions are.

BTW, from what I've seen the US has a very strong hobby woodworker population .. I doubt that Festool would be able to offer the range and price points they do in the US if it weren't for the enthusiastic hobbyists - you should thank them.

[thumbs up] [thumbs up] [thumbs up]

 
I would assume that the 120v units draw twice the amps of 230v units.
That may not ease the issues with motor heat.
 
Holmz said:
I would assume that the 120v units draw twice the amps of 230v units.
That may not ease the issues with motor heat.

[member=40772]Holmz[/member]

Yeh .. I haven't heard of many 240V failures, but there's a flow of hiccups with the 110V's !!

In this day and age you'd think general electronics would have leveraged more smarts in terms of monitoring and control to reduce the potential for motors, etc to self destruct.

Reminds me of a friend telling me about a people mover he'd purchased for his wife a while back .. seems she must have been driving it for weeks with flashing read lights and loud mechanical noises, followed later by a $15K complete engine replacement [eek]

.. anyways - there must be an elegant way to prevent these sort of failures .. but it'd be nicer for the tools to be designed for it not to happen!
 
[member=13058]Kev[/member] I it is a constant conflict between:
maximizing profit/ minimizing cost
keeping them going long enough to avoid returns
Keeping perceived quality high
cost effective enough to move the product

I am not sure that this day and age translates into good being commercially available.
There are some good things happening with DC motors (Telsa cars, Solar cars, Drones, and cordless drills), but they are only getting pushed out if there is a demand for better motors. If the lower quality motor works then why change it?

I agree it seems like the tool already has enough electronics that enough electronic to 'save itself', is not a lot more electronics.
 
The only response Ive seen from Festool on this subject is that there is a low number of failures to the amount of units sold , so I guess my derogatory remark comes from the fact that if only 1/2 the units sold are daily or professionally used work tools , that failure rate is much higher , assuming the tool is actually intended for professional use . (No disrespect intended to the casual users ,who didn't know what was in the green cool-aid) . I have personally only ever seen one other professional tradesman with a Festool product in my life , its a shame really .
The same week it left me stranded out of town ( No there are no flashing red lights before it blows , and yes we all know what gauge extensions to use , cutting 1/2" mdf with a very sharp blade ) , I was just trying to persuade a young guy working with me why he should pony up the $4000 for a full Kapex set up (ct26 stand tax and all) rather than $650 for the Bosch , "save your lungs , improved efficiency" , even if only a few seconds per cut, it adds up in a 50hr week . In retrospect thats probably 20% of his after tax annual wage ,( pocket change to his divorce lawyer who wants to build a bird house or whatever ). Tough sell now . Hats off to the hobbyists its so cheap .. really ?
  Personally the dust collection , lasers , compactness ,and out-feed supports are still worth it to me ,that ,and that the German workers who build them probably get more than $5 per week , I just feel the premium price should have some better durability.
Why there is not better protection circuitry is a very good question ...?
 
To respond to power and circuitry. My Kapex was in the same outlet as my Makita was for 10 plus years and still use that saw today in the field. In 5 years I had 2 arbor seals go bad and 1 1/2 years after the last repair the motor blew. I can expect a switch to fail but not a motor. Mine is in a one man shop and is cleaned and blown out every week. In Festool's defense they did repair the saw n/c but I lost my confidence in the reliability of this unit. Should Festool man up and fix the issue I would consider it again. But not until then.
 
I install standing seam and I've worked for dozens of builders and I have never seen a Kapex used on a job.  I've never seen one ever actually, except for in the festool show rooms.  Contractors around here do not see the value of the kapex, the price I'm sure scares them.  It's light and has great dust collection, but I'm kind of surprised how I've never seen one before.
 
I think after reading so many similar stories I will struggle to have the confidence to push this saw in a full job site environment again . I think the new armature should carry more than a 6 month warranty considering the cost of the repair .I hate to think I should carry another saw to cut the 12" melamine shelving which is probably the hardest thing I do with it .Two people trimming with it does generate some heat for sure, but its still not production shop work running non stop and I dont feel that should be beyond the capability of the saw , but again , a thermal shutdown circuit should be in order , a far more important feature it seems to need than the variable speed feature has been to me , if cost was a factor for its omission .
 
It's a shame, I like the design of the kapex.

Compact/lightweight/Accurate, everyone else is making bulky saws with zero effort on dust collection.

 
Every other miter saw I've owned has run through every situation I've ever used it in without a single hiccup in the motor.  All ran as strong as day one up until the last day I decided to use them.  Anywhere between 5-10 years of service on any of the saws I've used.

There's enough of these Kapex reports to firmly push me off the fence about buying one.

Put a full 5 year warranty on it and maybe I'd budge, but honestly I'd be expecting a lifetime saw at that size of expense, not just a 5 year saw (assuming proper use, proper power supply, proper wire ga., etc...)
 
Yeah, I've had mine for six years now and every time I read some of this stuff I'll take a look at mine just to check, been lucky so far.

Generally I like the saw, it's been a good performer but I never considered it a 'powerful' saw, I use my other saws for framing and the like.

It's been to many a job and I 'train" the guys on how to use it, mostly the safety and supplied power aspects.

The guy who pulls the trigger and starts the cut without letting the saw get to speed gets an earful and this is not the only miter saw I let it go on, even the DeWalts and Makitas. Same goes when pieces go flying about (which has actually happened to me on almost every saw I've used).. finish the cut and let it stop when a piece is not backed by the fence.

On occasion I let gear go to one of the other guys for a nominal sum. I'm surprised how quickly the thing goes downhill on this gear when someone without vested interest uses it. Once had a guy use a hammer to adjust the fence on my previous job site table saw because he couldn't figure out how to release the fence, (DeWalt w/rack and pinion)

It does sadden me reading all of these things about Kapex, had I seen these when considering my original purchase I would also be very hesitant and would have probably looked elsewhere.

If these problems are caused by anything else except abuse, neglect or accident then Festool needs to get their collective act together and get it fixed. I find it particularly astonishing to see these motor/electronic problems.

Don't know if our 'lemon laws' apply to this type stuff but if mine goes down with a blown 'engine' out of warranty then I'll certainly research the probability of it.

 
Rob in Vancouver said:
I purchased my saw during this years "save 10%" sale---I tell you what.  I have major buyers remorse.

Since my purchase I have seen 3 of these go for sale on Craigslist in my area, in each instance I asked the seller if the unit was under warranty.  In all cases the sellers told me that there was warranty on the unit because it had just been returned from a repair.

I'm seriously considering putting mine up for sale and getting the Bosch model. 

For anyone looking at buying a Kapex and/or a Vecturo for that matter---stay away from these Festool items.  Stick with their sanders and domino---those are kick butt tools.  Unfortunately the Kapex and Vecturo are no where near the same quality and value for money.
Hey Rob, I am working on the SS Coast, near you. Working with a custom builder, we go through 2-3 sliding saws a year. I do loan some tools to my guys: the Festool sanders, vacs, routers, and sometimes the domino. But no way would I loan out the kapex. Its too fragile. It has its place in a controlled shop environment, since its paid for. But perhaps in the future, the Bosch would make sense.

We are looking to buy 3 to 4 sliding saws. What is the Bosch model you are looking at?

Thanks!
 
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