Kapex vs 7"1/4 hickory flooring

[Forrest Anderson]

RC

As you can see, Nick is a strong supporter of the Milwaukee 6955-20 12" slider!  It certainly looks a great machine, and I particularly like the idea of the lights and fine adjustment on the mitre table. Milwaukee also has a very good reputation.

However I suggest that whilst both are high-end sliding compound mitre saws, the two machines are quite different. The Milwaukee is a much larger beast altogether - it has a 12" diameter blade and weighs 65lbs (which is 12lbs heavier than DeWalt's largest SCMS, the DW718), whereas the Kapex has a 10 1/4" blade and weighs just 47lbs.  Because of the larger blade, the Milwaukee can cut 13 1/2 x 4" (0 deg bevel, 90 deg mitre), whilst the Kapex can only cut 12" x 3 15/32".

When it comes to their larger machines, Festool tend to cater for tradesmen who move from site to site. Whilst the Milwaukee would make an excellent saw for a shop, at that weight I wouldn't want to move it very much! The Kapex is much more portable, and Festool apply the same design principles to their table saws like the CS50 and CS70 (which are not available in the USA), in that they are lightweight and designed to be easily moved from A to B.

Now that you've handled the Kapex, why not see if you can find a Milwaukee to look at? As well as the obvious differences in size, cutting capacities, and (of course!) cost, you might want to compare:

Dust collection
Noise and vibration
Stability
Amount of room that the saw takes up
Fences
Laser guides
Clamps and accessories
Blade availability
Ease of carrying, blade changing, and setting mitre and bevel angles,
Accuracy
Comfort of handle and position of switches
Trenching ability
Guarantee
Availability of local dealers
On-line support and forums

Since there won't be too many dealers open at the moment(!), here are some links to check out for each saw:

Milwaukee
Manufacturer's Home Page (links, specifications, manuals, videos etc)
Operators Manual
Video Review (Cabinetmaker Online)
Short Review (About.com)

Kapex
Manufacturer's Home Page (links, specifications, manuals, videos etc)
Original Operating Manual
Supplemental Manual (colour, 32 pages)
Video Review (Fine Homebuilding)
Review (Brice Burrell)
Video and Review (Gary Katz)

For more Kapex reviews etc, see Consolidated List of Festool Links: Part 3

Forrest

 

[nickao]

I have had both and made those comparisons as I noted and find the Milwaukee to be the clear winner in power and the same as everything else except laser, weight and sound volume.

The table and digital miiter on the Milwaukee is key .

If cost is a factor there is no comparison. None of what you listed make the kapex 800.00 more saw at all.

Again I have had both, kept the Milwaukee and prefer it.

The milwuakee needs no support I do not see it ever breaking down its bullet proof, but in 6 months I will let you know on that. I can already tell you milwuakee has given me personally the best support out of any other tool company I ever dealt with. Coming to my job site and home. that may not be common, but I doubt Festool is ever coming over here to give me a new tool because I complained.

I only had the Kapex 3 days and it broke and the second and third, so the Milwaukee already won that category.

One more thing. I do not care about the weight. I am in the camp that likes a heavy solid tool. I carried saws a 100 lbs for years and the Milwaukee in comparison is quite light. The Festool to me in my opinion is to darn small and light. That being said 65 lbs for the milwuakee at a 12" size and the powerful motor is quite reasonable. Some guys just want it light that is not my first or ever second or third characteristic I look for. Durability and longevity are. Carrying it around or not.

I only back this Milwaukee because someone starting out can buy the Milwaukee and buy two Festool routers to boot. I think the best Festools are ones that you can not get a comparable tool in another brand. MFT etc.
gain.

I have already commented the Festool is more elegant in its design and function. But using both and comparing cuts the kapex is not justified for me yet, based on the cut quality.

 

[mastercabman]

I have had both and made those comparisons as I noted and find the Milwaukee to be the clear winner in power and the same as everything else except laser, weight and sound volume.

The table and digital miiter on the Milwaukee is key .

If cost is a factor there is no comparison. None of what you listed make the kapex 800.00 more saw at all.

Again I have had both, kept the Milwaukee and prefer it.

The milwuakee needs no support I do not see it ever breaking down its bullet proof, but in 6 months I will let you know on that. I can already tell you milwuakee has given me personally the best support out of any other tool company I ever dealt with. Coming to my job site and home. that may not be common, but I doubt Festool is ever coming over here to give me a new tool because I complained.

I only had the Kapex 3 days and it broke and the second and third, so the Milwaukee already won that category.

One more thing. I do not care about the weight. I am in the camp that likes a heavy solid tool. I carried saws a 100 lbs for years and the Milwaukee in comparison is quite light. The Festool to me in my opinion is to darn small and light. That being said 65 lbs for the milwuakee at a 12" size and the powerful motor is quite reasonable. Some guys just want it light that is not my first or ever second or third characteristic I look for. Durability and longevity are. Carrying it around or not.

I only back this Milwaukee because someone starting out can buy the Milwaukee and buy two Festool routers to boot. I think the best Festools are ones that you can not get a comparable tool in another brand. MFT etc.
gain.

I have already commented the Festool is more elegant in its design and function. But using both and comparing cuts the kapex is not justified for me yet, based on the cut quality.

Everything this guy just said,  i agree.                                            well...   OK,maybe not the weight issue.....    ;D                   

 

[nickao]

One thing I do not like about the Milwaukee is that it almost seems like the saw tips back. Not when cutting, but if I just push the saw head back fast in the up position, the saw seems like it tips back. I never noticed this while actually cutting and  this only happens when the saw is not secured down, but it seems the balance point is strange.

Have anyone else noticed this?

Maybe the weight of the tools does not concern me as I am justifying the weight gain I have incurred the last five years.   

 

[Forrest Anderson]

One thing I do not like about the Milwaukee is that it almost seems like the saw tips back. Not when cutting, but if I just push the saw head back fast in the up position, the saw seems like it tips back. I never noticed this while actually cutting and  this only happens when the saw is not secured down, but it seems the balance point is strange.

Have anyone else noticed this?

I noticed the same sort of backwards tipping during the Video Review (Cabinetmaker Online) that I mentioned in my last post. Check out 20 and 25 seconds into the video, where the reviewer pushes the saw to the back of the rails. The base isn't very deep front to back, and if I was using the saw I think I'd want to clamp it down.

Forrest

 

[wnagle]

I really like digital readouts on any tool...as long as its accurate.  I use a digital readout on my table saw fence and love it...as well as my calipers, drum sander, planer, router lift, and other measuring tools.  I wish the Kapex was all digital.  I'm just a hobby woodworker and having good digital readouts helps me with accuracy and repeatablility.  Maybe not a big deal for many pros who have a lot better skills than I.  My eyes aren't what they used to be as well.  That said, I looked at the milwaukee before I got the Kapex.  But for my shop I needed the small footprint of the slider and even the Kapex is tight.  No other brand slider would fit on my wall and allow me to pull my car in the garage...so I didn't have much choice.  (not that I'm complaining) So far I'm really satisfied with the Kapex.  Dust collection is better than I expected and I have had no problems with the saw.  

As for any others reported problems with the saw.  The spring plate has had much attention on this site...maybe a little too much at times.  It's not really rocket science.  Festool made a last minute change on the plates to insure they would hold better and it was later determined they were too thick and caused binding.  They replaced them if you called customer service and now most saws being sold are fine.  It seems at least some of the problems talked about online were people trying there own fixes and doing there own re engineering without calling Festool.  I know thats not always the case, Festool did have a problem... but they did stand behind it and fix it as usuall.  I think it made a big splash just because people expect more from Festool and are used their higher quality... so that in itself made the problem seem bigger.  Not to mention it was on a saw that was double the price of anything else on the market.  

If I had room for the milwaulkee, I might have gone that route since it appears to have decent dust collection and then used the rest of the money for some other stuff...  For me I preferred a 10 inch over the twelve, good dust collection a must and a small footprint backed up to the wall so I could park.  Both saws have pluses and minuses, neither is perfect.  So each one of us tries to get what best meets our list of needs.  I am happy with my Kapex purchase.  Glad I bought it.  It should last me the rest of my life.  Sounds like the Milwaukee fit Nick's needs best too...

 

[nickao]

Actually my needs are the kapex as the base saw, mixed with some features of the Milwaukee digital  table and light, mixed with an accurate digital bevel adjustment I think is not far from coming. I would like an induction motor(quiet) on the saw as strong as the Milwaukee constant power motor too. Make it in both a 10" and 12" with a HIGH fence to boot. I would like a shop version with more mass(maybe cast iron or granite)along with a site version with less weight and mass using magnesium or better even a better lightweight material.

I think someone should differentiate between a shop slider saw and a site slider saw in its line up, like they do with table saws.

No one has come up with the ultimate Miter slider yet.

 

[wnagle]

Nick,

I like your idea on the shop version... I don't move mine eiher... I wish the Kapex was heavier.  I like the Kapex fine bevel adustment and the lasers,  On the milwaulkee I like the fine miter adjustment and the headlights.  Kapex is quieter, milwaulkee more powerfull...  Forward slide on the Kapex and digital on the milwaulkee.

I'm not into the granite on table saw or band saw.  I like a magnetic friendly table... but a granite base on a miter saw would sure be stable and reduce vibration.

Do you think they could ever make the ultimate slider?  I don't think they want to.  They have to have something to sell us next year!!!

 

[mwhafner]

I have noticed the propensity for the Milwaukee to tip backwards when not secured to the table.  I will only rock onto the rear carry handle, so there is no danger of a catastrophe.  Once it was mounted to the stand, it hasn't been an issue. 

I would also recommend the Tenryu blades for consideration.  I used Forrest Mitermasters for years on my Makita LS1013, as well as the Woodworker II on my TS, but decided to give Tenryu a try.  I bought the MP-305100CB for the Milwaukee, and it has proven to be an excellent blade.

One additional downside to the Milwaukee, at least for me, is the lack of a hold-down clamp.  I don't need one often, but miss it.

 

[nickao]

Yes it seems the verdict is the Milwaukee is sparse on accessories. I agree it needs to be secured down for use because of that tipping back motion.

I love the Ridgid large table and that I miss on the Milwaukee and Kapex, I add that to the list of the ultimate shop slider.

 

[erikfsn]

Someone mentioned on another forum that the 12" Milwaukee is selling at some Home Depots right now for $499.
Clearance sale perhaps?

 

[peter halle]

The yellow shelf tags are clearance items at Home Depot.

 

[Forrest Anderson]

Someone mentioned on another forum that the 12" Milwaukee is selling at some Home Depots right now for $499.
Clearance sale perhaps?

Be aware that Milwaukee introduced two double-bevel 12" mitre saws with digital mitre angle displays at the same time - the 6955-20 slider as discussed here, and the cheaper 6950-20 non-slider. I think it very likely that some Internet reports of seeing the slider at $499 will actually have been sightings of the non-slider.

Having said that, the thread entitled New unisaw, Miwaukee Slider and Jet Drum Sander, technology rocks! discussed the $499 pricetag for the slider at Home Depot, and gave tips for getting your local store to sell you one at that price.

Forrest

 

[mastercabman]

Someone mentioned on another forum that the 12" Milwaukee is selling at some Home Depots right now for $499.
Clearance sale perhaps?

Be aware that Milwaukee introduced two double-bevel 12" mitre saws with digital mitre angle displays at the same time - the 6955-20 slider as discussed here, and the cheaper 6950-20 non-slider. I think it very likely that some Internet reports of seeing the slider at $499 will actually have been sightings of the non-slider.

Having said that, the thread entitled New unisaw, Miwaukee Slider and Jet Drum Sander, technology rocks! discussed the $499 pricetag for the slider at Home Depot, and gave tips for getting your local store to sell you one at that price.

Forrest

That's right,$499.99 for the slider.HD no longer will have the Milwaukee saw.(not sure why).