Kickback

[Glenn3alexander]

Hi, I recently purchased an older Festool plunge saw, purchased two new tracks from a local dealer, read some material about the tools use, and set up to do some cuts.  I am cutting on my workbench with rigid foam under the melamine that I am cutting.  I am using a track and have the riving knife installed.  

I get kick back and don't like it.  I damaged my track after only making a few cuts.  I need advice on predictably avoiding kickback.

Thanks for the advice.  I assume that my technique is the problem.  

It is a Model ATF 55E.

 

[Jonhilgen]

Slow.Your.Plunge.

That, and start your plunge before entering the piece you're cutting. 

Jon

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Glenn, you didn't say which model you purchased, but there are Supplemental manuals for the past 3 generations listed below. Even if you have the ATF55E saw, I recommend that you also download the TS55REQ manual because it is much newer and contains more thorough information for operating any of the saws.

If you are experiencing kickbacks, it is typically caused from incorrect operation. The TS55REQ manual covers this the best out of the 3 versions.

http://www.waterfront-woods.com/festool/ATF55E.pdf
http://www.waterfront-woods.com/festool/TS_55_EQ_US.pdf
http://www.waterfront-woods.com/festool/TS55REQ.pdf

 

[gdjenkins10]

I did not notice any kickback on either models of the TS55 that I owned.  Now that I have traded out for the more powerful TS75, I did experience kickback a few times on 3/4 inch Birch plywood over the weekend.  I will try to slow my cuts down to see if things smooth out.

 

[Distinctive Interiors]

I did not notice any kickback on either models of the TS55 that I owned.  Now that I have traded out for the more powerful TS75, I did experience kickback a few times on 3/4 inch Birch plywood over the weekend.  I will try to slow my cuts down to see if things smooth out.

I have found that the TS 75 has a tendancy to kickback more often than the TS55 when doing plunge cuts. I ALWAYS fit the supplied kickback stop when cutting Sink cut-outs in kitchen worktops, whether I am using the 55 or the 75.

Tim.

 

[semenza]

Hi Glenn,

Welcome to the FOG!  [smile]

Also make sure the saw is up to full speed before plunging. It only takes  a couple seconds but if not at full speed it can contribute to kickback.

Seth

 

[Glenn3alexander]

Thanks Everyone.  
Excellent advice.  Slow. Your. Plunge.  and Start your plunge before entering the piece you're cutting did the trick.  In addition, I am supporting the track prior to the piece being cut (the track is not cantilevered more than an inch) so the tool is supported throughout the cut.

I made more than a dozen cuts since the post, not even a hint of kickback.

Fantastic!

Glenn

 

[Michael Kellough]

The 75 is designed for cutting thicker stuff so all things being equal there will be a little more tendency to kickback than with a smaller diameter blade. This is because the teeth of the larger blade are striking the thin stock (plywood thickness) nearly head-on rather than at an up-shear angle like the smaller blade does. Also, the spring that resists plunging isn't scaled up as much as the increased leverage of the larger blade would require to make the plunge resistance equal to the 55 saws. As everyone says, just practice plunging slowly on plunge cuts (which will be more frequent with the longer blade on the same guide rails). For cutting thin stuff with the larger saw use the most positive hook blade available.

With both saws it's best if the blade is fully plunged before the cut begins and still fully plunged beyond the work. Of course you can plunge cut with good results but the saw cuts best with a small amount of toe-in so if both ends (and sides) of the blade don't pass all points on the work there will be slightly different results where only one end of the blade passes.

An unsupported guide rail will flex and negatively affect the cut (especially bevel cuts) unless you are careful in holding the saw level. It isn't difficult. To start the cut with the saw on a cantilevered guide rail and the blade fully plunged just make sure the front of the shoe is firmly pressed to the rail. The shoe is long enough that the rail will be supported by the work at that point and the saw will cut true at 90*. For a bevel cut you have to also support the shoe so that it is level (co-planar) with the work so it's usually worth the effort to make sure the rail is fully supported to the end. (add scrap blocks beyond the workpiece)

 

[Laminator]

Something to note on the atf55 is that the riving knife does not retract for plunge cutting.  It can cause the rear of the saw to lift somewhat which can cause problems.

 

[grbmds]

Also make sure the saw is up to full speed before plunging. It only takes  a couple seconds but if not at full speed it can contribute to kickback.

Seth

Does the speed the saw is set at have anything to do with kickback? I just started using the 75 after exchanging it. I did not have any kickback problems in the short time I used the 55, but got kind of a bad kickback today on the 75. I was sawing 7/8" red oak. I was not able to plunge the saw before getting to the wood as the board was just too long. The kick back came right at the start, damage the splinter guard strip on the rail and put a couple of superficial cuts in the rail which don't seem to affect its use. I can reinstall or replace he strip but it surprised me and I'm not really sure what I did wrong. I didn't have the problem again but was, of course, extra careful after the incident. What are the possible causes?

 

[Rick Christopherson]

I was not able to plunge the saw before getting to the wood as the board was just too long. The kick back came right at the start,

That's not really a kickback. That is more analogous to climb-cutting with a router. Your plunge was taking place in the same direction the front of the saw blade was pulling the saw downward.

It is for this reason that you never plunge the saw down into the workpiece at the beginning of a cut like that. It is described in the Supplemental manuals.

 

[grbmds]

Does the cutting speed have anything to do with the problem? For example, the suggested speed for hardwood is between 3 and 6. I had it at 6 when this happened.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

No. It is purely due to improper technique while using a plunging saw. It is described in the manual.

http://www.waterfront-woods.com/festool/TS55REQ.pdf

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Peter, he is not making that kind of a plunge cut. He is just plunging the saw down while the front of the saw is over the beginning of the cut. This will cause the saw to "snap down" to full depth in a heartbeat. The backstop attachment will not help in that case.

 

[peter halle]

I stand corrected and have removed my post  [scared]

 

[Deansocial]

I remember the first time I made that cut, twitchy bum moment. Yep fully plunge before entering the material.

I've neve had kickback entering the middle of a work piece with the ts75 but I move forward as I plunge. I've had the saw about 7 years

 

[Distinctive Interiors]

I remember the first time I made that cut, twitchy bum moment. Yep fully plunge before entering the material.

I've neve had kickback entering the middle of a work piece with the ts75 but I move forward as I plunge. I've had the saw about 7 years

Do you not use the Kickback stop that comes with the saw Dean?

Tim.

 

[Deansocial]

Never, never been a problem. I think on solid timber It would be a problem more on solid timber but I tend to rout them out on sink cut outs.

 

[AlexR]

Couple things i noticed. Saw needs time to come up to speed before plunge. Anti kick back really should be on front of saw ,thats where the lift starts.  The simple jig i build takes care of this problem beautifully holding saw firmly on rails,only down side is if you join rail with rail joints it uses outside track so conflicts. I just butt tracks together and use another track to keep aligned.http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/ts-rail-levitation/
The perspex is drilled with over size holes so you just slide into t track bring it along side saw and slide thread rods into jig and lock up wing nuts. KISS  [big grin]

 

[farms100]

I've never used a track saw.
On a regular saw if the blade is in contact with thw wood beforenyou start it will kick/tourque out on you. Not sure if this applies,  but twisting the saw left or right, or out of vertical can cause the saw to jump around.

How tight or loose are you holding the saw? You want a good grip, but not to so tight you have a death grip.