KS60 - We pay more to cover a design error.

[Stephen B]

[attachimg=1]​

In Aust. the KS60 has been released in two versions - basic and set.

The set version includes a LED Spotlight, Smart Bevel AND Adapter Feet to increase its height so a SYS1 can support timber material to be cut.

It seems to me that the ability to make the turntable cutting base level with a Sys 1 should have been integrated within the original design and engineering brief, not as an accessory adaptor. And now having made this 'stuff up' Festool expect us to pay more for an 'accessory'.

In Aust. the basic version is A$1099 and the Set A$1350. To add the Adaptor feet to the basic version costs A$65. In the scheme of things regarding Festool prices, not a significant outlay, but again this feature should have been within the original design.
http://www.festool.com.au/epages/tooltechnic.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/tooltechnic/Products/500121

 

[sheperd80]

Just as the mft should come with angle braces. Typical festool

 

[ben_r_]

Glad I have zero interest in owning one.

 

[peterboy]

In a design studio far far away..... I bet the conversation went something like this " we could make it the same height as a sys 1"...."naw don't bother, they'll pay extra for that"

 

[bobfog]

Just as the mft should come with angle braces. Typical festool

Don't be stupid! Sir should be happy to pay an extra $80 to stop his $700 workbench from wobbling!

 

[Stephen B]

[size=6pt]

In a design studio far far away..... I bet the conversation went something like this " we could make it the same height as a sys 1"...."naw don't bother, they'll pay extra for that"

[size=13pt]
I feel you are right [member=59626]peterboy[/member] or it's just incompetence. I do not own a Kapex 120, so I was surprised to discover via some research that the Sys 1 can be used as a material support when using a K120.  [eek]

So dear Festool KS60 Designers, what's the story here!?  [mad]
[size=8pt]http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/kapex-questions-28887/msg284013/#msg284013

 

[AlexThePalex]

The story of course is they wanted to make a small and light package. Why on earth should they absolutely -have to- make the base the same height as a systainer?

But it would have been nicer had they included the feet with the saw. It's just 2 dollars worth of plastic. But there you have Festool's rip off marketing methods.

 

[DB10]

The story of course is they wanted to make a small and light package.

There is only a 3.7kg difference between the new Ks60 and the older bigger Ks120 also the new saw is fitted with a 1200 watt motor compared to the original 1600 watt, seems a lot of money for what is essentially a Kapex light.

 

[antss]

The story of course is they wanted to make a small and light package. Why on earth should they absolutely -have to- make the base the same height as a systainer

But it would have been nicer had they included the feet with the saw. It's just 2 dollars worth of plastic. But there you have Festool's rip off marketing methods.

Uh........because it's a system
because they claim to only release a tool with improvements
because they claim to have better engineering
because they're other saw is made that way

Nicer  [doh]

Why use an add on to solve an issue that could have been eliminated during design and manufacturing ?
Weight , my foot. A second year industrial design student could easily give you a few ways to increase the height without adding weight. 
This seems like a case of the product manager deciding that the band aid for the product's shortcomings should be paid for by the customer.

Now, the customer pays in the end anyway - but it never ceases to amaze me how Festool nickel and dimes users in haphazard and inconsistent way. 

I've raised this point before - don't they beta test this stuff in the field before release?  And if so who's testing it ?  It would appear that the faithful are not consulted.

And honestly is anyone going to buy one of these in the 110v version given its big brother's motor issues.

 

[Stephen B]

[size=18pt]"He can now simply take a Systainer . . . . ."
[size=12pt]Around 1.25 mins in to the video.  [mad]
And here are the design team!


Despite all this, I am looking to purchase one. It was through analysing my needs, future tasks etc,. that led me to ask , "Hang on a minute, what is going on here with regard to the Systainer images '.

 

[Corwin]

I think the bigger mistake was designing the base to be narrower, thus requiring an interface piece between the saw and the existing UG cart. Even worse is that you then need to either replace the scales on your extension wings, or purchase new ones for this specific saw that have the adjusted scales. A well designed 'system' would have to play together much nicer.

I get it that there are compromises with design choices. But, when it is evident that a lot of thinking has gone into some parts of the system, some things then come as a surprise when they appear to be lacking.

 

[Scorpion]

So I read the gripe and instantly thought "...won't align to a Systainer 2 either then and there's no adapter for that, WTF?!"  Then I remembered that I don't care because that wasn't how I intended to incorporate it into MY system.  "Maybe Festool gets me".

Just make it AINA, don't care.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Svar]

So I read the gripe and instantly thought "...won't align to a Systainer 2 either then and there's no adapter for that, ?!

That was my thought exactly. It also does not align with sys mini or many other random objects for that matter...

Just because its a system does not mean Festool has to give away its components for free. Plenty of people wouldn't care about alignment with sys2 and might prefer a bare tool, why should they bear the cost of accessories they won't use? OK, let's say Festool included all the accessories and sells only one configuration at a "deluxe" price. Wouldn't you rater have a choice?

 

[antss]

[size=18pt]"He can now simply take a Systainer . . . . ."
[size=12pt]Around 1.25 mins in to the video.  [mad]
And here are the design team!

..........he can - if he purchases the deluxe model or orders spare parts.  Both additional cost - that should already be included in the "system" and the base price

 

[glass1]

More importantly why do you need a 1000 dollar Saw to install flooring ?

 

[Harry1561]

Why would you want to use a  $100 systainer to balance lengths of timber on any way .A couple of off cuts clamped to the bench work just fine.  8)

 

[NL-mikkla]

wow, lot of pessimistic reactions to a new nice machine.
I'm getting fed up with these threads, it's not nice to be here anymore.
It's not designed specific for you, it's for the whole world (lol except NAINA sorry about that)
If you think of it that way, than just not buy the thing...

Off to hopefully read something nice in the projects section!

 

[glass1]

My point was if you can afford 1000 for a saw what's 65 for some feet. This Saw sure looks cute.

 

[demographic]

Kin ell, so all you really practical people can't manage to bung a bit of plywood (or whatever size works) underneath the saw to get to the right height?

Or even (Gasp/shock/horror) just make up a support out of wood like everyone else has been doing for years?

I reckon that its made as small as possible so it fits in small spaces, like my tool safe in the van, plus its not a big numb thing to carry like the Kapex 120.

 

[J0hn]

The story of course is they wanted to make a small and light package. Why on earth should they absolutely -have to- make the base the same height as a systainer?

What?????

Put the kool aid down, you have had enough