Lawyer Table Saw TV Ad

[Motown]

Upscale, you are entitled to your opinion but what is your point?  I am not complaining about US drug companies because this thread is not about US drug companies......its about SawStop. I am making an observation and ultimately a decision as a consumer where to spend my money.

If what you and others have said is true about the quality of their product isn't it easier to take the high road and grow your market share with a great product instead of enlisting a bunch of ambulance chasers to go after the revenue of your competitors? Their tactics suggest they don't think the merits of their product are enough to win. Does this type of judgement factor in to their engineering, manufacturing or customer service?

I am not saying Gass is breaking any laws, I am saying that if this is his strategy he is not smart enough to accomplish his goal.......and I'm going elsewhere.

 

[rjwz28]

Upscale, you are entitled to your opinion but what is your point?  I am not complaining about US drug companies because this thread is not about US drug companies......its about SawStop. I am making an observation and ultimately a decision as a consumer where to spend my money.

If what you and others have said is true about the quality of their product isn't it easier to take the high road and grow your market share with a great product instead of enlisting a bunch of ambulance chasers to go after the revenue of your competitors? Their tactics suggest they don't think the merits of their product are enough to win. Does this type of judgement factor in to their engineering, manufacturing or customer service?

I am not saying Gass is breaking any laws, I am saying that if this is his strategy he is not smart enough to accomplish his goal.......and I'm going elsewhere.

Motown, this thread didn't start about Sawstop.  Look at the title.  It's about lawyers.  It became one after Sawstop haters started making comments.  And no one really knows if they are behind the add in the first place.

I own one and like Uptown, I really like mine.  If you don't want one, fine, don't buy one.  But you don't have to bash the product because you don't like the owner.  Everyone has their own preferences.  Also, I think they do take the high road as you suggest with great engineering, manufacturing and service.  I remember when I got mine, it had the best assembly plans of anything I ever bought.  It came with a book and all the parts were neatly sealed an labeled.

Rob

 

[upscale]

If what you and others have said is true about the quality of their product isn't it easier to take the high road and grow your market share with a great product instead of enlisting a bunch of ambulance chasers to go after the revenue of your competitors?

I guess I didn't get my point across. Even if SawStop did enlist a legal group to get their point across (and that is not a given), I don't fault Saw for any part of their actions early on or the present. A small, beginning company has to fight tremendous obstacles to succeed. Many express their extreme outrage at SawStops marketing actions. Yet, many other real crimes and actions a thousand times worse, are carried out on a regular basis by people and companies. They appear to go by the wayside. Where's the outrage by the masses. Little SawStop gets this torrent of woodworker outrage while real travesties go by the wayside. How do you explain that?

While I can't really condone some of the stuff they've done, there's far many more prevalent things in my view of the world that I believe should be addressed (and really aren't) long before some blip on radar like SawStop. Anyway, that's my opinion and how I feel about it. I apologize of that offends you.  

 

[upscale]

Motown, this thread didn't start about Sawstop.  Look at the title.  It's about lawyers.  It became one after Sawstop haters started making comments.   And no one really knows if they are behind the add in the first place.

I think you have to admit though, when anything about tablesaw safety is mentioned, SawStop comes immediately to mind. It's almost impossible to do otherwise. And of course, then comes the inevitable backlash.

 

[Kev]

That woman made me extremely angry.

People cut their fingers with knives all the time - let's dig up the poor caveman that invented it and sue the mammoth skin off his back!

I really despise people that profit from other people's pain and prey on the weak (is that the real definition of a lawyer?).

Personally I'd like to see Saw Stop suffer a serious negative backlash from this material as it's obvious their video was used in a promotional manner. I for one will NEVER touch, speak positively or recommend their tools.

SHAME, SHAME, SHAME [mad]

 

[AlexThePalex]

I too doubt SawStop has anything to do with this video. This is about lawyers trying to make a buck, and they simply use the SawStop device as a means. The woman said there happen 30.000 table saw related accidents per year in the US and for lawyers this means 30.000 possible jobs and 30.000 possible settlements. It is American culture that endorses this behaviour, not SawStop on its own.

I don't know about what Steve Gass does for tricks in the US, we're not privy to that information over here, but I do know that when I ever get a stationary table saw I will lean heavily towards getting the SawStop because I highly value my digits and am willing to pay a premium price for their well being. Just like I'm willing to pay a premium price for Festool products, even though I think lot's of their premium value is only perceived.

What I find amazing though is that they can twist reality into what they want. They talk about "defectively designed" if a saw doesn't have SawStop technology. So suddenly all saws that have been used before SawStop was around are defective. Pretty bold statement. What I find even more amazing is that a judge might actually go along with them.

 

[RC]

I watched the commercial and some others from the same channel and they seem to follow a unified format of showing products in their spots in exactly the same place so I wouldn't go accusing Saw Stop of product placement just because its mentioned as an example of the only device that wouldn't be 'defectively designed' by their legaleze pitch for compensation.

 

[RKA]

As much as I hate the practice of ambulance chasing, even they may serve a purpose in this little ecosystem.  Other table saw manufacturers don't want to be the first guy to pay the licensing and see their production cost increase.  They don't think they will be able to sell product at a price disadvantage.  Just like car manufacturers, it's a calculated risk.  How much do we lose in sales or profits (or both) by adding this technology vs. how much do we lose in law suits if we don't.  If the ambulance chasers can help them see they didn't make the right decision, maybe that opens some doors and gives the consumer a choice? 

Of course it's also possible the ambulance chasers hurt the equation.  Maybe the other saw manufacturers believe it's commonly accepted that saws inherently dangerous if you don't follow appropriate safety practices, so the payout for injuries is low, but with this technology, it might be expected that the saw is as safe as a butter knife.  So any failure of the technology would be a huge liability sitting squarely on the shoulders of the company with the deepest pockets. 

As someone who is considering the purchase of a saw, I have already decided I will not purchase a saw that doesn't have the best safety features available.  My fingers are tools that I use to earn a living, besides the fact that I happen to like them.  Cost is a concern, but the cost of an injury is many multiples of the cost of the saw.  What frustrates me most is lack of choice.  While sawstop does make a very nice saw, other manufacturers have made a decision not to incorporate the technology.  If they wanted to, I'm sure they could find a way to structure an arrangement with sawstop that was mutually beneficial.  The don't want to.  So as the consumer, I'm left to vote with my wallet and I really don't feel like I have a choice. 

 

[tiralie]

That woman made me extremely angry.

She's an actress. I found her attractive but not very convincing.

This discussion got me thinking, are there as many accidents (per user) with sliding table saws compared to others. In other words are sliding table saws safer?
Saw stop is interesting technology. They developed it, and they deserve all the revenue they get from it just as Microsoft and Apple etc. do.
Tim

 

[junk731]

There are 2 known and documented facts, Gass is a lawyer and he's already tried to buy votes with donations to get legislation past. Yah there's no chance he's involved in this ad. LOL

John

 

[Ben H]

If that 8% number is correct for the others to place the tech in their saws, they are crazy to not offer one model with the brake.  People are strange, and brand loyal.  I know several guys who would pay 10-15% more for a PM saw, with the SS brake, than what a SS of equal power would cost.

 

[peter halle]

I deleted my earlier post which I made based on my ignorance.  Here is a wiki link about legal advertising in the US which is quite legal.  I found it interesting reading in the article the concentration on certain areas of the law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_advertising_in_the_United_States

Peter

 

[upscale]

If that 8% number is correct for the others to place the tech in their saws, they are crazy to not offer one model with the brake.  People are strange, and brand loyal.  I know several guys who would pay 10-15% more for a PM saw, with the SS brake, than what a SS of equal power would cost.

I'd suggest no one wants to be first to license SawStop technology because then all will inevitably have to capitulate to stay competitive with comparably safe products. What Gass did or didn't do to become profitable isn't really of much concern anymore because the dam is springing leaks like a sieve. It's the insurance companies and the increasingly more frequent law suits that are forcing the issue now and there's not much anybody can do to avoid the universal compliance that's coming.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Gass is a patent attorney.  He holds the patent for the brake technology. 

The commercial was goofy. 

 

[RKA]

There are 2 known and documented facts, Gass is a lawyer and he's already tried to buy votes with donations to get legislation past. Yah there's no chance he's involved in this ad. LOL

John

Here's another way to look at legislation.  When nobody wants to pony up to offer technology because it increases costs and potentially makes them less competitive, it levels the playing field when everyone has to offer something that adds value and safety.  Generally I don't care of the govt deciding what's best for me, but in this case, that may the impetus to move things along.  History is littered with examples of this, the auto industry is a perfect example.  It's not all good, but from a safety standpoint, I would say it's more good than bad.

As for the donations, it's hard not to spiral into a political debate, but thats how the system works.  You want your voice heard, make a donation and you get someone's ear for 15 mins.  If you make a convincing case to the right person, maybe that propels change.  All I know is sawstop doesn't have the muscle capacity of pharma, gun and other lobbies, so I doubt he's "buying" anything.  I suspect all he's doing is increasing his odds of being heard.  And he recognizes that government and customers are two ways to bring about change.  Yes, he stands to benefit from the change, but that doesn't automatically invalidate anything he pitches to the powers that be.  I will say it's a stretch to connect that activity with this silly ad, but that's up to the reader/viewer to decide for himself/herself.

 

[Kev]

Even here on the FOG you'll see people posting workshop pictures with unsafe setups, bare blades, crap all over the floors ... need I even mention the love of the dado blade set [scared]

I can see the future - people tripping over cats in the workshop and going neck first into the running table saw with no guard ... don't worry, all you have to do is sue the manufacturer.

Where does this stop?

Ever cut yourself sharpening a chisel ? Get a lawyer
Ever stub your toe on a workbench? Get a lawyer
Ever fall out of a window? Get a lawyer

Just another little thing - a lot of table saw injuries relate to material flying through the air - taking out eyes, etc. The saw stop doesn't leap up and grab projectiles, it'll blind you just like any other table saw used incorrectly and unsafely.

At some point we need to let Darwin back into the game and clean up the gene pool [blink]

So I vote for a device the blows a driver's head off if he drives stupidly close to a bicycle [wink] that's real safety!

 

[Motown]

Upscale, fair enough and no offense taken. I think your comments about their branding are true.....when you think of table saw safety, you think of Sawstop. They should just stick to that and to building great products. It can be that simple. If you look at the number of negative reactions (mine being the loudest this time) and easily conclude that fear mongering is not effective.

 

[Kev]

That woman made me extremely angry.

She's an actress. I found her attractive but not very convincing.

This discussion got me thinking, are there as many accidents (per user) with sliding table saws compared to others. In other words are sliding table saws safer?
Saw stop is interesting technology. They developed it, and they deserve all the revenue they get from it just as Microsoft and Apple etc. do.
Tim

Of course she's an actress, lawyers have horns and half eaten rabbits hanging out of their mouths.

I swear the last things left alive on the planet will be lawyers and cockroaches ... and I'll feel sorry for the cockroaches.

 

[dpeagles]

Wow. [sad]
If Sawstop really wanted to make a better world for woodworkers, then they would license their technology, at a reasonable rate, to all saw makers.  Avarice is not appealing.

What has happened to America that Profit is a dirty word?  Sawstop has built a better mouse trap.  Development of the technology was most likely very risky financially.  Why should they just give away their technology?  If you want a safer tablesaw...buy a sawstop.

The fact is, their design is safer and has placed other saws at a disadvantage that can now be seen as defective or unsafe as compared to the newer safer design.  Kind of like a car that still has lapbelts.

 

[upscale]

I swear the last things left alive on the planet will be lawyers and cockroaches ... and I'll feel sorry for the cockroaches.

Sure, you'll be sorry until one of the mutated cockroaches hires a lawyer to sue you for your last radiation suit just because you stepped on one of its relatives.

[laughing]