antss said:If this were universally accepted, Harbor Freight would rule the tool market.
They do have over 800 stores plus online and I see a lot of their stuff at estate sales. Maybe more market penetration than you think, just saying.
antss said:If this were universally accepted, Harbor Freight would rule the tool market.
smirak said:I work in an aerospace manufacturing plant. I'm the supply chain manager and get final say on many things. I've spent nearly $1000usd over the last 6 months or so on dewalt, Makita and Milwaukee drills/drivers. I now have told my production guys I'm buying a (or multiple) festool. The amount of work I'd say needed would rival that of a low-moderate hobby shop. We are talking about drilling through composite material about 1" thick(ish). This would be for "one offs" as the main milling/drilling is done with different tools/applications. Also, these would be used for general shop tasks.
Also, I've been keeping up with the installers sets and their (un) availability in the US. We operate on a metric system at the plant (we are a Swiss company) so I don't really need imperial anyway.
So, let me know what your go to drill/driver(s) are for my applications. I'll likely order a few of each (if more than one is recommended).
Thanks,
Kevin
I agree.Cheese said:I guess the place to start is to identify those specific qualities you need from a drill and then ascertain which drill will provide them.
I own both Festool and Milwaukee drills.
The outstanding traits that Festool drills provide:
The CXS is my favorite small format drill...bar none.
The C 15/18 has the best torque limiting/control system, it's electronic...no more slipping clutches which just wear out and are annoying to listen to all day long.
The Festool drills provide the best right angle or limited space drilling flexibility.
After that, Milwaukee has all the rest of the bases thoroughly covered.
Issues such as warranty, initial price, battery cost, availability, power and that goofy Centrotec thing are better with the Milwaukee offering...specifically their 18 volt line.
And then there's the issue of ergonomics.
They do have over 800 stores plus online and I see a lot of their stuff at estate sales. Maybe more market penetration than you think, just saying.
Or he's soliciting info from the people that know best in order to factor that into his decision making process. Asking on a general tool forum would likely generate the usual festool is an overpriced yuppy toy response.Asking the question on a Festool forum, seems like it is asking a question that you want a yes for.
SRSemenza said:Seems like there is a bit of making a mountain out of a mole hill going on in this topic due to people reading into things.
[member=64271]smirak[/member] The other drills / brands you have purchased and used for the task in question have not worked out for one or more reasons. That being battery life and power.
It may also be helpful to know the need or lack of need for compactness and overall size weight of the drills you have tried and or are shopping for?
Do the other features matter .......... the eccentric or right angle chucks?
Personally for a general purpose drill shop task drill I'd be looking for a bit more capability and capacity than the C/TXS, but that is me for my needs. I know that the cost matters but maybe the best way to really find out is to get one Festool drill? I can't imagine a C18 or T18 would not be up to the tasks you have in mind.
In relation to battery life I think the recharge time and speed would be important and the Festool Airstream might come into play for you in that regard.
Seth
antss said:...
Or he's soliciting info from the people that know best in order to factor that into his decision making process. Asking on a general tool forum would likely generate the usual festool is an overpriced yuppy toy response.Asking the question on a Festool forum, seems like it is asking a question that you want a yes for.
smirak said:...
Thanks to those that have answered with both constructive and non-constructive answers.
I am going to buy a CSX and a C/T 18. After all, the management has tasked me with finding what works. You don't know what works based on internet searches and reviews. Some of the tasks that we would use the drill for would necessitate the need for an offset/right angle chuck, but I wouldn't use that as a deciding factor. If the festool isn't working for our group, no worries. I'll send them back inside the 30 day return period. Unfortunately, I don't have a "local" festool dealer in my area to see about demo products. My nearest 2 dealers are over an hour and a half north and an hour and a half south and those are both Woodcraft stores. The festool website shows two dealers in my area, but neither of them carry anything, they just order for you if necessary.
smirak said:SRSemenza said:Seems like there is a bit of making a mountain out of a mole hill going on in this topic due to people reading into things.
[member=64271]smirak[/member] The other drills / brands you have purchased and used for the task in question have not worked out for one or more reasons. That being battery life and power.
It may also be helpful to know the need or lack of need for compactness and overall size weight of the drills you have tried and or are shopping for?
Do the other features matter .......... the eccentric or right angle chucks?
Personally for a general purpose drill shop task drill I'd be looking for a bit more capability and capacity than the C/TXS, but that is me for my needs. I know that the cost matters but maybe the best way to really find out is to get one Festool drill? I can't imagine a C18 or T18 would not be up to the tasks you have in mind.
In relation to battery life I think the recharge time and speed would be important and the Festool Airstream might come into play for you in that regard.
Seth
Thanks to those that have answered with both constructive and non-constructive answers.
I am going to buy a CSX and a C/T 18. After all, the management has tasked me with finding what works. You don't know what works based on internet searches and reviews. Some of the tasks that we would use the drill for would necessitate the need for an offset/right angle chuck, but I wouldn't use that as a deciding factor. If the festool isn't working for our group, no worries. I'll send them back inside the 30 day return period. Unfortunately, I don't have a "local" festool dealer in my area to see about demo products. My nearest 2 dealers are over an hour and a half north and an hour and a half south and those are both Woodcraft stores. The festool website shows two dealers in my area, but neither of them carry anything, they just order for you if necessary.
Holmz said:antss said:...
Or he's soliciting info from the people that know best in order to factor that into his decision making process. Asking on a general tool forum would likely generate the usual festool is an overpriced yuppy toy response.Asking the question on a Festool forum, seems like it is asking a question that you want a yes for.
A good point, but confirmation bias, and other biases need to be factored in. A higher than average rating of Festool should exist on a Festool forum.
More telling to me, and related to the topic, is is the number that mention Metabo in a Festool forum. That says something more positive than it would if it was mentioned on the Metabo Oweners forum.
smirak said:...
Thanks to those that have answered with both constructive and non-constructive answers.
I am going to buy a CSX and a C/T 18. After all, the management has tasked me with finding what works. You don't know what works based on internet searches and reviews. Some of the tasks that we would use the drill for would necessitate the need for an offset/right angle chuck, but I wouldn't use that as a deciding factor. If the festool isn't working for our group, no worries. I'll send them back inside the 30 day return period. Unfortunately, I don't have a "local" festool dealer in my area to see about demo products. My nearest 2 dealers are over an hour and a half north and an hour and a half south and those are both Woodcraft stores. The festool website shows two dealers in my area, but neither of them carry anything, they just order for you if necessary.
^That^is a wise strategy. I would suggest that you make sure you get plenty of feedback too (which I am sure you will).
I posted earlier about carbon fibre and the use of pneumatic based drills. This understanding came from experience, but that experience is now dated.
Some attention to the sanding "dust" maybe worthwhile to consider from both an OSHA as well as a contamination perspective.
Drill guides, and or templates with drill bushings can help ensure a normal hole.
Any reason why you want Cordless over say, Air Powered Drills? At any rate, I too vote for the PDC if a 1" diameter hole is needed from time to time.smirak said:Thanks db...post wasn't meant to sound boastful, so apologies to anyone if it came across as that. I guess maybe the question is, do I continue to spend money on the other brands, or do I buy festool? Is the quality that much better? If I've gone through a couple different brands so far, and would have paid for a festool, would I have gone through a couple different festools as well? Or, would the quality of a festool have prevented me from buying another?
I echo your comment about being organized. Our plant is bringing production from Switzerland to America. We build space product. We are building our plant around a nice 5S environment. Perhaps some of my question may have had to do (unconsciously) with the fact that these tools come in systainers allowing us to be even more 5S compliant. Sure, I can buy a new Milwaukee and a Systainer with some foam inserts, but after that, I'm at the festool price? Maybe I was just internally justifying a festool?
Point of matter is that I need a few more drills, so that's what started this whole thread.
leakyroof said:Any reason why you want Cordless over say, Air Powered Drills? At any rate, I too vote for the PDC if a 1" diameter hole is needed from time to time.smirak said:Thanks db...post wasn't meant to sound boastful, so apologies to anyone if it came across as that. I guess maybe the question is, do I continue to spend money on the other brands, or do I buy festool? Is the quality that much better? If I've gone through a couple different brands so far, and would have paid for a festool, would I have gone through a couple different festools as well? Or, would the quality of a festool have prevented me from buying another?
I echo your comment about being organized. Our plant is bringing production from Switzerland to America. We build space product. We are building our plant around a nice 5S environment. Perhaps some of my question may have had to do (unconsciously) with the fact that these tools come in systainers allowing us to be even more 5S compliant. Sure, I can buy a new Milwaukee and a Systainer with some foam inserts, but after that, I'm at the festool price? Maybe I was just internally justifying a festool?
Point of matter is that I need a few more drills, so that's what started this whole thread.
jobsworth said:to the OP, you also mentioned installer sets, what I would suggest as options are the Systainer with the attick so you would be able to have project specific bits in te attic for usage or buy inserts (if they are available not sure) for installer sets and and purchase the bits that the employees would be needing in them. Personally I think the systainer with the attick would be better as your workers will only have one systainer to haul around and be responsible for and the tooling would be easier to manage/ inventory beginning and end of shift, meaning not lost, disappearing easily and easier to control FOD if that is a issue in your plant.
FOD and tooling left on aircraft is a major industry concern w the prime suppliers.
leakyroof said:Any reason why you want Cordless over say, Air Powered Drills? At any rate, I too vote for the PDC if a 1" diameter hole is needed from time to time.
Then a setup where every part as a defined place so you can see that something is missing might work better than, so one can start to search and panic in case one space is empty at the end of the job.smirak said:FOD is a big concern for us.