Looking for space saving miter saw. Kapex worth a try?

[usernumber1]

[member=68525]usernumber1[/member] As promised. The pics show you how you can line up the very edge of the blade's tooth against your pencil mark.

thanks. yea i can see how people might prefer that. i need to calibrate my lasers; i've learned to compensate but the shadow line is auto correct

do you have to bring the blade down so you can see the sharp shadow - before you start cutting?
what i'm getting at is with laser, i can use two hands with workpiece, then switch to one hand hold and one hand cut with the saw.
i've done little tappy-tap-taps like this

do you hold the piece and move it while the other hand has to hold the blade lower?

 

[woodbutcherbower]

[member=68525]usernumber1[/member] As promised. The pics show you how you can line up the very edge of the blade's tooth against your pencil mark.

thanks. yea i can see how people might prefer that. i need to calibrate my lasers; i've learned to compensate but the shadow line is auto correct

do you have to bring the blade down so you can see the sharp shadow - before you start cutting?
what i'm getting at is with laser, i can use two hands with workpiece, then switch to one hand hold and one hand cut with the saw.
i've done little tappy-tap-taps like this

do you hold the piece and move it while the other hand has to hold the blade lower?

[member=68525]usernumber1[/member] You're welcome. The shadow line is visible when the blade's all the way up at the top at rest, but it starts to come into a better degree of focus when the blade drops to 3-4" above the material. I bring it all the way down to achieve the sharpest possible shadow edge just before I cut, to double-check the accuracy against the mark. It's a habit I just got into, I guess. With regard to material positioning - I usually slide the material along the saw bed until it's approximately in place as above. I'll grip the saw handle with one hand, lower it to get the shadow sharp, and then slide or tap the material with the other hand until the position is exact.

Kevin

 

[Mini Me]

Yes, I'm sure that smaller particles of the same density are easier caught by airflow than bigger particles.  [wink]

I'm glad you are sure.

 

[Laminator]

I find my kapex lasers very accurate.  With a fine mark from a 0.5mm pencil, it is easy to cut up to the mark or take half the mark off or remove the pencil mark completely.  I have no experience with shadow lines but it sure looks like an excellent system. 
I got used to the kapex handle and it works well.  Dust collection is a must as I'm mostly cutting in homes and offices that are occupied. The only thing I really don't like is the thought in the back of my mind that it is going to quit on me in the middle of a job... but, its working like a champ and I purchased it not long after they appeared on the market. (If it quits I'll either fix it or get another one).

 

[ChuckM]

The discussion about laser lines vs shadow lines prompted me to look at my Kapex again. I've never used the laser lines for precision or repeatable cuts because it's never precise enough if the process relies on sighting (or the ability of my eye sights [eek]). Using the laser, I did some tests. First I fine-tuned the laser -- see blue lines:

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=4]

Then using the fine-tuned laser, I cut a 10" and 9" blocks. The results?

Wow!

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

As I said, I won't rely on the laser to make repeatable cuts, but the laser on the Kapex is pretty good. 

About the question of worth trying.

If something is used often enough in my shop, such as the SawStop and DF500, and tip-top accuracy/reliability/efficiency are desired, the price is my least concern. I use a similar yardstick to decide what cars to own because I use them so much. (And as far as I know, the REB no longer has the smoking motor problem that some reported having on their EB Kapex.)

 

[Laminator]

ChuckS, this is the kind of results I get with my lasers also.  One trick I use is to hook my tape on a board and let the laser line shine on the tape, then simply move the tape and cut, no marking necessary.  It is very precise indeed.

 

[ChuckM]

ChuckS, this is the kind of results I get with my lasers also.  One trick I use is to hook my tape on a board and let the laser line shine on the tape, then simply move the tape and cut, no marking necessary.  It is very precise indeed.

Sounds like a good "ruler trick!" (Of course, the advice of using the same tape for all the cuts still applies. [big grin])

Visually, the shadow line looks very promising. But I know of no other fellows whose miter saws use shadow line so I can try it.

 

[Packard]

When I first started out in the picture framing business, my first miter saw was a Stanley manual miter saw with a Disston manual saw.  It was highly accurate, and the Disston saw, when sharp, cut quickly and easily on all types of wood.

What killed it was the fact that electric miter saws were cheaper than the precision Stanley unit.

You can find them in average condition for about 100.00 used. If you can find one in good condition, and if you can find someone to sharpen the back saw, it was lighter than any power miter saw and required no electricity.

If you are only cutting wood, it might suit your needs.

Stanley has since come out with a Chinese knockoff of that old saw.  But the original is doubtless of better quality. It used roller bearings to guide the saw.

 

[Coen]

Interesting. So actually were some dumbass units you guys got rid off, but that stopped in the '50s?

it was lighter than any power miter saw and required no electricity.

Well, if you cut more than a few pieces you can convert that to kg of equipment per meter cut per day and I'm rather sure the electric miter saw wins in that competition.

 

[Packard]

It was quiet (important in a retail situation) and very accurate.  But like I said, it cost more than the power chop saws, so it disappeared.  I often used it in conjunction with a Lion Miter Trimmer (now out of business, but the copies are pretty good—not so much the quality of the blades).

Of course we were cutting small profiles, and I rarely made more than 10 frames a day.  So the power saw did not hold much of an advantage. 

I did finally get a sliding table miter saw.  Quiet and accurate, it would also cut aluminum molding.  Effective dust collection built in. 

But about 5 times the cost of a chop saw—not cheap (but I still have it and it is my go-to for fussy miters).

 

[mino]

Yes, I'm sure that smaller particles of the same density are easier caught by airflow than bigger particles.  [wink]

I'm glad you are sure.

[member=58818]Mini Me[/member]
I see Coen did not want to react while I think it is worth it for posterity. Please, do excuse my "arrogance" if any felt.

What Coen wrote is based on Newtonian physics - specifically aerodynamics coupled with laws on momentum/acceleration.

This is not really "high school stuff", that would be unfair. Would generally be a first year stuff at a uni physics course. So no rocket science, but also not something that can be expected to be casually known.

As the statement is based on generally-known laws of nature, there was, in theory, no need to "prove it". I disagree here. Though. This is no physics fans forum. Nor is meant to be.

-----
So, the argument goes along:
A particle of a certain density/materials:
- will have its momentum (proportional to weight) increase with the 3rd power of its diameter, the same as its volume
      => translates to: 2x the size => 8x the momentum
- will have its air resistance (aka how much it is affected by the air flow to the vac) increase with the 2ns power of its diamenter
      => translates to: 2x the size => 4x the air resistance

In other words, the ratio of the "force" pushing a particle to not-go-to-the-vac (aka its momentum) to the "force" pushing it to change-course-into-the-vac (its air resistance) is favoring the heavier particles to "win" and the smaller ones to lose.
The bigger particles momentum is high relative to the "wind" force so they have much bigger chance to "win" their freedom while the smaller particles stand little chance. This holds for any particles with the same density which is the case here. Due to this, the general rule of thumb is that "what catches the biggies catches also the small ones".

True, there can be pathological cases in complex scenarios where this is not always true - e.g. closing the "hole" on a TS 55 will cause more bigger ones be caught while the "secondary intake" which normally takes the small ones which escaped initially is lost, making the situation worse there.
Though a mitter saw does not have any such "multiple" exit points with only a narrow channel for dust complexity like a tracksaw has. So, for a physicist, just looking at the geometry, it is clear the general rule will hold here.

 

[Coen]

That is one detailed explanation of my "Cd*A is larger relative to it's weight"  [tongue]

 

[Ebuwan]

I switched to Kapex from a 12" Dewalt NON-slider.

I don't miss the 12" capacity at all; maybe because it wasn't a slider, so not losing much anyway.

The handle; i thought it was weird at first, but a big advantage i found is if i ever had to cut something using my left hand on the saw; the Dewalt was great for using my right hand, but left hand was super awkward; and the motor took up a good bit of space on the one side; Kapex its the same clearance on both sides.

I also bought the mobile stand and the extension wings; I'm mostly just doing hobby stuff in the garage, but it is nice the couple times i've had to bring it into a room to do a bunch of molding.

Also, as mentioned the dust collection is by far the best of any saw i've seen. In the garage, i have 6" ductwork to my dust collector, and have it reduced with a very short run of 36mm to the kapex, and does a great job. I've wondered if getting a CT Extractor would make it even better, but it's so much better than the Dewalt hooked up to the same setup I haven't bothered.

 

[tomktest]

Well I really didn’t want to spend this much $$ but I went ahead and picked up a kapex from the local dealer on my way home from work today. I spent hours trying to calibrate my dewalt the night before and while I got her to cut straight at 0 deg it was all out of whack cutting at 45 with the miter. Something has to be bent.

I’m still getting to know the kapex. I think I will like it. I had a few problems though. First the laser button didn’t work. I had to take off the housing and sand the Burton hole bigger. The laser was way out of calibration. The bevel stop plate also has to be sanded near the left 45 degree mark as it made a terrible metal grinding noise from 40 to 45 degrees.

I’ll report back in a few days after I get the trim cut and installed.

 

[ChuckM]

Why not get a new replacement from the vendor instead of doing all the "fixes" yourself?

The moment the laser button was found to be not working on a new saw, I'd have contacted the vendor.

 

[Packard]

I agree.  This should have been functional out of the box.

That said, my Delta table saw required “tuning” when I first got it.  Remarkably it has remained “in-tune” for over 20 years.  Better results than my friends Steinway which has to be retuned ever 3 to 6 months.

 

[tomktest]

Why not get a new replacement from the vendor instead of doing all the "fixes" yourself?

The moment the laser button was found to be not working on a new saw, I'd have contacted the vendor.

Yeah you are right. My problem is the “local” dealer is an hour away and I just need to get this trim job done. I figured it might be a common problem as I’ve seen someone mentioned that their laser didn’t work either on a YouTube vid.

 

[tomktest]

Kapex, where have you been all of my life? This thing is a joy to use...

• Cuts are smooth and very accurate
• Very little blade deflection
• Adjustments are very easy with accessible controls
• Bevel gauge is HUGE
• I actually really like the handle that I thought I would hate. Much easier keep the blade from deflecting.
• Slide out wings are a nice bonus feature
• Dust collection is good. Much better than the DeWalt. I wish it were even better so I may try a 36mm hose. I did rig up a 50mm hose but it was difficult to tell if it made any difference and it would get caught on things so I went back to the 27mm.
• Lasers are usable - much better than a single laser. I find myself turning them off and just lining up on a tooth for critical cuts.
• When installing base I sometimes need to do compound miter/bevel cuts to meet the casing tight. With the DeWalt I would sometimes just not even bother with a 1/2 degree bevel because it was such a pain to set up. With the Kapex it no longer feels like a chore.
• I really like the soft start and brake. They are dialed in perfectly to keep the saw from jumping around.
• The hold down clamp is one I actually will use

It's not all perfect though.

• The miter adjustment is a bit of a pain at times because you can't lock out the detent bypass. My workaround is to use a spring clamp to hold the detent bypass which is just silly.
• The included miter gauge is a neat concept but in reality is fairly useless. Most base will be too tall to be cut standing up and the gauge doesn't work to set a bevel. It's far easier just to buy a $15 miter protractor.
• It should have an option for a shadow line
• It is too easy to miss the bevel stop at 0 degrees
• The steep price makes you think twice before buying. At what point would the price be too much to pay for a miter saw?

I was really hoping to hate this saw so that I could get my $$$ back but unfortunately the Kapex is here to stay.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.

It's not all perfect though.

• The miter adjustment is a bit of a pain at times because you can't lock out the detent bypass. My workaround is to use a spring clamp to hold the detent bypass which is just silly.
• The included miter gauge is a neat concept but in reality is fairly useless. Most base will be too tall to be cut standing up and the gauge doesn't work to set a bevel. It's far easier just to buy a $15 miter protractor.
• It should have an option for a shadow line
• It is too easy to miss the bevel stop at 0 degrees
• The steep price makes you think twice before buying. At what point would the price be too much to pay for a miter saw?

I was really hoping to hate this saw so that I could get my $$$ back but unfortunately the Kapex is here to stay.

The KAPEX can handle 4-3/4" in its special cutting position, and 6-5/8" crown in the nested position, but I have never used the angle transfer device because I don't do baseboard stuff.

I don't recall encountering the detent or bevel stop issues, or maybe they aren't a problem per se to me. I'll have a look when I use the saw next time.

Try a 36mm dia. hose to see how much it will help.

 

[ChuckM]

"It is too easy to miss the bevel stop at 0 degrees"

Needed to a few cuts today, and took the chance to look at this issue.

I don't seem to have such a problem with my saw. Do you find your miter scale too tight or too loose? Maybe you can adjust the tightness to see if it helps (someone has posted about adjusting the scale on this forum).