Loving the Carvex

[Cheese]

Thinking about this further, maybe I should run a quick comparison of a Trion, a Carvex and a Mafell. I’d probably use the same new Trion blade on all 3 saws. I think I have 3 new Trion blades.

If I remember correctly, the Trion & Carvex work fine in thin materials (3/4”), it’s when we up the ante to timber type materials, that the perpendicularity of the Festool saws goes south.

A dust removal comparison will also be interesting.

 

[yetihunter]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] I was grasping at straws in much the same way that adjusting a hex set screw on the Carvex is the end of the world for some users.  [big grin]

 

[leakyroof]

Thinking about this further, maybe I should run a quick comparison of a Trion, a Carvex and a Mafell. I’d probably use the same new Trion blade on all 3 saws. I think I have 3 new Trion blades.

If I remember correctly, the Trion & Carvex work fine in thin materials (3/4”), it’s when we up the ante to timber type materials, that the perpendicularity of the Festool saws goes south.

A dust removal comparison will also be interesting.

. That would be cool if you did that. Interesting too...

 

[mrboult]

I have both the Trion and the 18v Carvex. I've long got bored of comenting on how i don't understand people's complaints about these saws.
Honestly, there are either a lot of lemon jigsaws slipping out the festool factory, or a lot of lemons buying them..

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

I have both the Trion and the 18v Carvex. I've long got bored of comenting on how i don't understand people's complaints about these saws.
Honestly, there are either a lot of lemon jigsaws slipping out the festool factory, or a lot of lemons buying them..

I thought the main complaints about the Trion jigsaws were just about visibility. It’s hard to see the blade particularly if the plastic dust guard is in place, and there’s no dust blower. Otherwise, there’s no steel baseplate available, which I think is mostly my complaint, and you need a wrench to adjust the blade guides and base.

The Carvex on the otherhand seems to get complaints about other issues.

 

[yetihunter]

Well pretty much everything Festool (except the Kapex, for some reason) is filled up to the brim with overload protection, other motor protection, and digital pulse wave modulated power management.... so.... you can't really push them beyond their limits.  Which is great for me, and probably a hinderance to others.  But regardless of that, discounting the routers and geared sanders, powerful isn't a word I'd associate with Festool products (at least not with what's available in the USA).  I'm not saying that as a bad thing.  But I am saying that there's probably a lot of complaints coming from people who would be better served by a 900 watt jigsaw.

Vice versa, people complain about the TS55 being "underpowered" and I'm like, "You need a worm drive to cut 1/2" plywood?".

 

[McNally Family]

Vice versa, people complain about the TS55 being "underpowered" and I'm like, "You need a worm drive to cut 1/2" plywood?".

I think people like a little more power so they don't need to buy both the TS55, and the TS75 for those moments when they are cutting solid wood.  The Mafell MS55 (1400w 10amp),  lands somewhere near the the middle of the two Festool saws, when it comes to power. 

 

[TXFIVEO]

The Carvex has served me well...

 

[jeh]

For most of the time I've owned the Carvex, it has been an out of adjustment, blade-rattling POS. I'll put it and both of my Trions up for sale for $25 each to help finance a good jigsaw.... the Mafell methinks

Yikes! Anyway, the P1CC is seriously a beast.  I've done cuts with fine blades with zero pendulum action that other machines would require setting 3 and a rough blade.  It's a timber framing tool, though, so I would expect that power (and with great power comes great heat).

I'm sure you know all of the good news, so I'll mention a few gripes/growing pains so that they don't catch you by surprise. 

You have to lock the foot, foots, feet, footsies beyond the point where you think you're breaking the lever/catch to secure it.  Otherwise, it will come loose and that beast will dance and then come flying at the operator.  Obviously, once the operator knows this, it is no longer an issue.

It gets EXTREMELY hot and fast.  That's the caveat of being extreme, I suppose.
The caveat of barrel grips is that your hand is meant to be precisely on the hottest point. 

The angle foot can be annoying.  It bevels one direction, so you have a 50/50 chance of putting the foot on the wrong side and then having to take it off, turn it around, and put it on again. 

Internally, the logic board is not mechanically secured.  It's supposed to be a friction fit between plastic (no screws), but it's generally floating a bit.  The speed adjustment is definitely floating, and flimsey.

It does what it's supposed to do, though.

The P1cc is a jigsaw and not a timber framing tool. Mafell has these, but they are not jig saws by any stretch. I have a P1cc and have had a Trion and Carvex. I bought the Carvex to replace the Trion that had reached its end of life. It was a complete disappointment that pushed me toward the P1cc. I think I would have been just as happy with another Trion, but that said I am not at all disappointed with the P1cc and like that it works with the Mafell rails. Mine has never gotten extremely hot as you describe, but definitely has been warmer than one might expect. The foot and latch are non-issues that never affected me and I have never had a problem attaching the foot or having it come loose. That might be because I took a few minutes looking it over before using it. As for the logic board I don't see how this is an issue. I've never heard of it causing any problems. The P1cc is a well-built tool that has a long life ahead of it.

 

[jeh]

Yah, I think I'm gonna go ahead and cause a rip in internet wisdom's time-warp-continuum by dropping the bombshell that the Mafell tracksaw isn't actually any better built than nor better finished than the TS55 while I'm at it.  :0

I'm sure that [member=2330]morts10n[/member] has either legitimate criticsms or possibly legitimate issues, however.    I've sent my fair share of of brand new Festool tools in for repair before having a chance to plug them in.  So, either it's a lemon or it's the already discussed criticisms that just won't fly.

I mentioned in another thread about recently buying a Metabo drill (the Mafell drills are built upon a Metabo model, fyi) for it's beastly torque.  At the end of the day: it ain't a sweetastic T18.  At the following morning: even the PDC is only pushing 500 inch lbs in a 100 foot lb world. 

Different choices for different needs.

Having used a TS55 (owned), TS75 (still own) and the MT55cc (own) I can tell you the Mafell falls somewhere between the TS55 and TS75 in terms of perceived cutting power. The MT55cc has never bogged down on me whereas the TS55 did. I prefer the Mafell, however it and the Festool saws are roughly equivalent. The major differentiator is the rail system: Festool's is far inferior to Mafell's and it is not even close.

 

[Svar]

Having used a TS55 (owned), TS75 (still own) and the MT55cc (own) I can tell you the Mafell falls somewhere between the TS55 and TS75 in terms of perceived cutting power. The MT55cc has never bogged down on me whereas the TS55 did.

That is partially because MT55 has 1.8 mm blade, while TS55 has 2.2 mm. A ~20% difference.

 

[Cheese]

That is partially because MT55 has 1.8 mm blade, while TS55 has 2.2 mm. A ~20% difference.

Possibly using an HKC blade on a TS 55 would help the down on power problem.

 

[MAK]

I have refrained for a long time before saying anything about my carvex.  Don't get me wrong my van is full of festool and I love the tools and had them for many years, but the carvex drives me mad.
I've had the 400 had repaired replaced, then got the 420 and had it repaired twice  replaced then repaired and it's gone again.
Blade always falling out foot coming loose now the light stays on all the time. I've spoken to festool and rep several times.
I think it's rubbish and poor quality.
I had a Makita before and never any issues.
I've lost all hope with it ( not with other festool stuff)
Just waiting for a better one to come along or wait for a mafell battery powered one to come soon.

 

[yetihunter]

For most of the time I've owned the Carvex, it has been an out of adjustment, blade-rattling POS. I'll put it and both of my Trions up for sale for $25 each to help finance a good jigsaw.... the Mafell methinks

Yikes! Anyway, the P1CC is seriously a beast.  I've done cuts with fine blades with zero pendulum action that other machines would require setting 3 and a rough blade.  It's a timber framing tool, though, so I would expect that power (and with great power comes great heat).

I'm sure you know all of the good news, so I'll mention a few gripes/growing pains so that they don't catch you by surprise. 

You have to lock the foot, foots, feet, footsies beyond the point where you think you're breaking the lever/catch to secure it.  Otherwise, it will come loose and that beast will dance and then come flying at the operator.  Obviously, once the operator knows this, it is no longer an issue.

It gets EXTREMELY hot and fast.  That's the caveat of being extreme, I suppose.
The caveat of barrel grips is that your hand is meant to be precisely on the hottest point. 

The angle foot can be annoying.  It bevels one direction, so you have a 50/50 chance of putting the foot on the wrong side and then having to take it off, turn it around, and put it on again. 

Internally, the logic board is not mechanically secured.  It's supposed to be a friction fit between plastic (no screws), but it's generally floating a bit.  The speed adjustment is definitely floating, and flimsey.

It does what it's supposed to do, though.

The P1cc is a jigsaw and not a timber framing tool. Mafell has these, but they are not jig saws by any stretch. I have a P1cc and have had a Trion and Carvex. I bought the Carvex to replace the Trion that had reached its end of life. It was a complete disappointment that pushed me toward the P1cc. I think I would have been just as happy with another Trion, but that said I am not at all disappointed with the P1cc and like that it works with the Mafell rails. Mine has never gotten extremely hot as you describe, but definitely has been warmer than one might expect. The foot and latch are non-issues that never affected me and I have never had a problem attaching the foot or having it come loose. That might be because I took a few minutes looking it over before using it. As for the logic board I don't see how this is an issue. I've never heard of it causing any problems. The P1cc is a well-built tool that has a long life ahead of it.

I was being playful and cheeky.  I love my P1cc.

 

[Cheese]

Thinking about this further, maybe I should run a quick comparison of a Trion, a Carvex and a Mafell. I’d probably use the same new Trion blade on all 3 saws.

A dust removal comparison will be interesting.

.

That would be cool if you did that. Interesting too...

Hey [member=10952]leakyroof[/member]

Yesterday I was cleaning up the Carvex & Trion so I could put them down the road. Then I remembered this thread from last year and decided to run a quick comparison of dust collection between them and the Mafell P1 cc.

Some standards were set:
1. A new Festool Trion S 75/4 FSG blade was used on each saw.
2. No orbital action was used.
3. All 3 saws were set to approximately the same speed.
4. No chip guard was used.
5. A triggered CT 22 on max suction was used on each saw, that way the length of time the vac was on was approximately equal.
6. A scrap 7" wide piece of 3/4" ply was used.

Carvex photos 1-3, Trion photos 4-6 & Mafell photos 7-9. The stunner is when you compare photos 2, 5, & 8 to each other. There's a channel inside of the base of the Mafell that blows the chips across to the extraction point on the other side. Photo 8 says it all.

Interestingly enough, the Carvex leaves the most amount of dust on the cutting surface while the Trion leaves the most dust on the floor. Also, the area of dust on the floor is similar between the Carvex & Trion.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=4]

[attachimg=5]

[attachimg=6]

[attachimg=7]

[attachimg=8]

[attachimg=9]

 

[ScotF]

Yep. DC is good on the P1CC. You can feel it just running the saw with no extractor hooked up. I think this could work with a dust bag if one had the desire to hook it up.

The Mafell is great all around. But, Mafell has some duds too...I broke my first P1CC as the needle bearing broke. It was an easy fix by Timberwolf and now my old saw is/was there demo saw as mine was covered in warranty and they just got me a new machine. It is a jigsaw...a great one in my opinion, but my first one did break...so not impervious.

 

[Svar]

Photo 8 says it all.

So, the amount of dust on the floor is about the same (+/- 20%) for all saws. Makes no difference for cleanup. What am I missing?

 

[Cheese]

So, the amount of dust on the floor is about the same (+/- 20%) for all saws. Makes no difference for cleanup. What am I missing?

This thread first appeared at the same time as another thread that was questioning how efficient the DC was on a jig saw. In particular, the OP wanted to compare the Carvex, Trion & Mafell. I tried to locate that thread but no luck.

Also of interest to several individuals, was is it better for the saw to have a small blower to clear the cut line or was it better to try to vacuum up the dust.

Well, the Mafell has both and it’s quite obvious that the cut line is kept scrupulously clean with that arrangement.

Photo #8 is just pretty darn impressive. I think I counted 10 pieces of dust.

So Svar...what am I missing?

 

[TXFIVEO]

I used a cheap Black and Decker jigsaw for quite some time with stellar results.  The Carvex has done everything I’ve needed it to do and then some.  Over reliance on a tool isn’t a reason to not like a tool.  It’s the hands operating the tool more often than not. 

 

[pingvinlakrits]

I have had three Carvex jigsaws over the years and I have regretted every single one of them. Two out of three had serious blade eject problems and none would cut straight in thicker wood regardless of blade, speed or pendulum setting. The Trion has worked better for me as did my old Bosch jigsaw. Maybe it is my "lack of training" but the Carvex is way too complicated with a "system" approach requiring the footprint of a SYS 4  [eek] for something as simple (and not really exact a) cutting tool as a jigsaw.

I got my self the overpriced and similarly complicated P1cc with no regrets. Everything fits in a SYS 1. The one thing I would love to see is a cordless P1cc. The Mafell P1cc is brought out on rare occasions but mostly resides in the workshop with the pigtail curled up nicely from the posterior. It is a joy to use though.

The Carvex isn't the worst jigsaw on the market - far from it - but for the price I think it is the worst buy.

Last time I ditched the Carvex I got me a seemingly horrible and cheap Hitachi top handle jigsaw as a stop gap solution - which to my surprise handles better than the Carvex and I till use it as my go to jig saw on site. It performs like a champ. Does not cut very straight in thicker wood (just like the Carvex) for longer cuts so I don't use it for that purpose.  Top handle jigsaws was never my choice but I find I cut much better with the Hitachi from underneath the material than any other jigsaw I have used. Trigger is variable speed and I love that it revs and stops immediately which helps with tricky cuts. Simple saw that does the job. Love it.

I rank the Hitachi top handle 18V as my best buy jigsaw of all times for price and field performance, knowing that it would probably not stand up to heavier decking jobs and/or abuse.  [eek]