MAJOR problems with packaging quality

[Woodchucky]

I am trying to figure out whether I am exceptionally unlucky, or whether Festool is majorly slipping in its packaging quality.

Most of the Festool items I order come in a Systainer, which usually gets shipped in a cardboard box with some air pillows or bubble wrap around it for extra protection. I have not had any problems with these in the past. However, I purchased a Kapex recently. The cardboard box it came in was totally chewed up. What was painfully obvious is that it was hardly UPS' fault: the way the tool is packed, the saw is turned at 45% to its base, and they put some styrofoam corner blocks around the saw head. However, the opposing corners had no support, and -- not surprisingly -- the thin cardboard could not stand up to being loaded and unloaded multiple times. I was lucky that time; although the box was quite mangled, the saw itself seemed to arrive intact and complete.

I expected this to be quite different; for example, look at this review that shows careful double-boxing of the tool:

http://www.burrellcustomcarpentry.com/subpage74.html

Is Festool slipping so severely that it is trying to save a buck and now packaging $1300 tools in some flimsy, single-layer cardboard instead of the sturdy double-box packaging they used originally in the above example?

Now onto my latest sadness: I decided to order the Systainer Port. Got it from Amazon.com; standard delivery via UPS. The box arrives, and it is VERY heavy. It is wrapped in an ultra-thin layer of cardboard. I open it, and the top right corner is totally bashed in. I called Amazon customer service, and they are very nice about it. They have shipped a replacement at no charge. I just got it off the FedEx truck. Before the delivery guy leaves, I ask him to stick around, and I open the box of the new Sysport. It is HORRIBLY bashed in (worse than the first one). The metal is buckled to hell. I ask the driver to take it back right away, but he refuses, because the outside box itself seems intact.

I called Amazon right away. They were nice, but are refusing to ship yet another replacement. I will return the damaged units, and the refund is my only option.

I am totally pi$$ed to hell. Have I been very unlucky, or is this becoming more typical?

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Sorry for the bad experiences. If you contact me, I can help make arrangements to get you a replacement SysPort. Care has to be taken for how these are packaged and shipped from the dealer. We ship them to dealers on pallets, not individually. I'm surprised UPS/Fedex would even accept these due to the weight and size.

I will need your full name, address, phone number and a convenient time to call you, please.

Regarding packaging in general, Festool (Germany) is a member of WWF and practices green packaging. That doesn't mean that we "skimp" on packaging, but the idea is to produce less waste and biodegradable waste.

I can't comment specifically on the Kapex packaging since it's been a while since I've taken one out of a box, but I would certainly think there would be adequate packaging material on ALL sides of the saw.

Again, sorry for the frustration.

Shane Holland
Festool USA
sho@festoolusa.com

 

[PeterK]

Not sure on the Kapex as I have not purchased one but----
I have purchased many items from Bob Marino and he has repacked items to provide more protection before shipment on occasion. You might want to go through one of our very high quality dealers who participate here to get better delivery. Bob Marino and Tom Bellemare are both excellent. Give one of them a call and ask about how those items would be packaged and shipped. You might have better luck.

 

[hockey_magnet]

I bought a Kapex recently from a dealer and it was packagd somewhat like you described - There was no box with Kapex picture inside the box, just a single brown Festool box but protected by foam on the base and corners. I really don't think if it was shipped to me in that packaging that it would have arrived with the box intact. Perhaps if they ship to a dealer, the packaging is different than it would be for packaging and shipping to an individual purchaser - I agree that what I got did not seem well packaged for a $1500 item but the outside and the contents were fine - I think this was brought up before with respect to the Kapex - it almost looked like the package had been opened previously but I actually don't think that was the case in my experience.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Stop ordering giant heavy things on line.

 

[EWTHeckman]

Stop ordering giant heavy things on line.

The voice of a true expert!  [thumbs up]

 

[JimRay]

Its been a while since I was shipping stuff via UPS or FedEx, but I can tell you, my company spent a lot of extra money on supplemental packaging for everything from clamps to Festool products. We would even attach 2x stock to clamps trying to make sure that the carrier didn't bend the bar, and they would still find a way. We used to sell a popular clamp called a "Big Foot". It was an early, 8ft long 6" wide aluminum version of Festools guide rail, but it had a nifty clamping mechanism on the underside. We got almost 50% of them back damaged - bent so badly that it looked like it was intentional. We used to sell an Air Filtration system, and had incredible damage claims for those too. Seems that they were too bulky for the drivers to handle easily, and instead of using the hand truck, they would simply end-over-end them from the truck to the residence.

My point is that a shipper can do an incredible job packaging the shipment, and the carrier can still find a way to damage the product. Some products, like 8ft bar clamps, guide rails, Air Filtration units, and even Sysports require a tremendous amount of supplemental packaging on the part of the retailer. That's just the way it is. Perhaps manufacturers should provide better packaging, but in many cases it will be wasted - ie, retail sales where customer pickup is an option.

I don't know how Amazon ships their Festool orders, but I would bet that a smaller retailer would spend a lot more time making sure that your Sysport would not be damaged in shipping. I buy a lot of stuff from Amazon, but I am selective about what I order. Big, bulky, expensive, or fragile, and I try to find a smaller retailer first. (In fact, most of what I buy from Amazon are books and CDs) In the case of your Sysport, I think Amazon made the right call. It sounds to me that they were admitting that their shipping department did not have the facilities to package the Sysport well enough to insure its safe arrival.

To answer the question, are you unlucky, or is this becoming more typical, I would say, shipping damage has always been a factor, especially with big bulky items, like Sysports. (I tried 3 times to get a Sears tool chest that wasn't all bent to heck. Finally decided that the last one was acceptable because it wasn't as bent up as the previous two!)

Jim Ray

 

[hockey_magnet]

Stop ordering giant heavy things on line.

I agree. I buy a lot of stuff online but would not consider buying something as large, heavy and complex as the Kapex online. Anything big, bulky, expensive, I try and shop for locally if possible.

 

[andvari]

Stop ordering giant heavy things on line.

Yup. I've seen other things of the same type arrive minimally packaged and marveled at how they managed to survive the UPS or Fedex ground system. I've given up entirely on Bessey clamps from Amazon. Amazon itself obviously is aware of the problem - if the package is destroyed after two tries they refuse to try again.

Amazon is full of frustrated reviews from people purchasing large heavy items that are failures to make it through UPS and FedEx.

 

[mike metz]

I just received my kapex about a week or so ago and found it to be packaged very well. it was ordered from Amazon, but was shipped from Toolnut. it was packed inside two plain cardboard boxes used as one(one on top, other on bottom) inside was the kapex box. here are the pictures of how i got it , i knew about the concern and wanted to document if any issues were found lucky it was perfect out of the box!!

 

[semenza]

See post #12 here with some info regarding Festool on amazon  http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/quickest-free-shipping-for-online-dealers/msg194853/#msg194853

Good explaination, Peter.

Seth

 

[nclemmons]

I had a similar experience with Amazon and shipping a Sysport -

Ordered the first one - sent it out - no crate - just a cardboard box.  Arrived damaged from being dropped on the bottom corner.

Called for a return. They picked it up.  Talked to an Amazon customer service agent.  Said they'd ship the next one properly.

Took the bait and ordered a replacement Sysport.

It too showed up - damaged with nothing but thin cardboard protecting the metal of the Sysport.

Returned that one and went to Woodcraft and bought from them.  The reason i was buying from Amazon was because I had Amex points I could redeem there.

Lesson learned - Sysports don't ship.  Festool does a lousy job packaging them for shipment, so I'd advise anyone to buy local on those items.

To be clear, this is the only shipping issue i've had with any Festool products.  Only the Sysport in my experience needs better packaging - I've ordered MFT, vacs, Kapex and plenty of sustainers, rails, and accessories with no issues at all.

neil

 

[harry_]

Not sure on the Kapex as I have not purchased one but----
I have purchased many items from Bob Marino and he has repacked items to provide more protection before shipment on occasion. You might want to go through one of our very high quality dealers who participate here to get better delivery. Bob Marino and Tom Bellemare are both excellent. Give one of them a call and ask about how those items would be packaged and shipped. You might have better luck.

Best to buy from Bob, near the holidays so you have a means to alleviate yourself of all the quality packing!

 

[Brice Burrell]

I had a similar experience with Amazon and shipping a Sysport..........

.....Lesson learned - Sysports don't ship.  Festool does a lousy job packaging them for shipment, so I'd advise anyone to buy local on those items......

neil

You must have missed Shane's earlier post.

...Care has to be taken for how these are packaged and shipped from the dealer. We ship them to dealers on pallets, not individually. I'm surprised UPS/Fedex would even accept these due to the weight and size....

It's not Festool's fault if Amazon doesn't package them correctly.

 

[sadie171]

Hey Woodchucky, thanks for writing;  I had the same exeperience buying the sysport last year. I recieved the first sysport from Amazon by UPS; the single layer of cardboard was damaged in multiple places and out of square. Amazon was concacted and I recieved another sysport shipped by Fedex; damaged  in multiple places and still out of square.  They ended up leaving the first one and replacing with the second - still out of wack, but at least I only paid for one.  [unsure] [big grin]

 

[hrrb]

Stop ordering giant heavy things on line.

I agree. I buy a lot of stuff online but would not consider buying something as large, heavy and complex as the Kapex online. Anything big, bulky, expensive, I try and shop for locally if possible.

No! I won't accept those arguments. I too try to buy locally but sometimes it's cheaper or more convenient for me to buy online

And if a dealer sells heavy stuff online it's his duty to see to that the packaging is okay and it's his duty to pick a reliable company when shipping.

I'll give you an example.

Here in Denmark the basic prices on Festool are quite high and the VAT is high (25%). So looking for a kapex and trying to save a little money I checked some danish online dealers.

One of them gave me a nice offer - the discount was approx. $ 312,- and shipping which usually costs approx. $ 25,- was free. I asked 2 of my local dealers but they wouldn't give me any discount.

Would any of you say no to saving $ 337,- ?? I doubt it! And the low price should not be an excuse for bad packaging. Then it might just turn into a warranty issue. It's in everybodys interrest that the packaging is well done.

Kind regards
Henrik

 

[Woodchucky]

Stop ordering giant heavy things on line.

Thanks for the constructive response...

Just FYI, where I live I do not have any Festool dealers within an hour's drive. Even if I did, the SysPort box does not easily fit into the small sedan I drive (I have neither a pickup truck nor an SUV).

As far as the concept of "ordering giant things online" goes... the SysPort does not even rate in size compared to my other tools (Grizzly 19" Extreme Series bandsaw and 8" Extended Bed jointer) that arrived via delivery without a scratch.

Where I see Festool's responsibility here is that the problem is imminently solvable: for the SysPort all you would have to do is pack the units with some hard foam fitted around the top and bottom edges. This would result in a very small increase in packaging volume, and would be surely an improvement in environmental friendliness by reducing delivery trucks running around with returns and re-shipments.

 

[Kev]

Stop ordering giant heavy things on line.

Thanks for the constructive response...

Just FYI, where I live I do not have any Festool dealers within an hour's drive. Even if I did, the SysPort box does not easily fit into the small sedan I drive (I have neither a pickup truck nor an SUV).

As far as the concept of "ordering giant things online" goes... the SysPort does not even rate in size compared to my other tools (Grizzly 19" Extreme Series bandsaw and 8" Extended Bed jointer) that arrived via delivery without a scratch.

Where I see Festool's responsibility here is that the problem is imminently solvable: for the SysPort all you would have to do is pack the units with some hard foam fitted around the top and bottom edges. This would result in a very small increase in packaging volume, and would be surely an improvement in environmental friendliness by reducing delivery trucks running around with returns and re-shipments.

I have to agree with you. I pickup small to medium things generally, big things get delivered ... a delivery service should not be a high risk affair you need to avoid. Has it got to that in the US?

Sure there are questionable delivery people. Reporting them and getting them out of the game improves things for everyone.

 

[GreenGA]

One thing I have not noticed during this discussion is return packaging.

We must return our Kapex to Indiana for warranty work.  My stomach is in knots getting it there in one piece.  [crying]

We'll pack it as best we can with what we have on hand.  Once we hand it over to UPS, who knows how it will be treated.  [blink]

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

One thing I have not noticed during this discussion is return packaging.

We must return our Kapex to Indiana for warranty work.  My stomach is in knots getting it there in one piece.  [crying]

Gary, if you need to return a Kapex for repair, please contact the service department. They can send you a box for shipping if needed I believe. As for UPS and how they handle it, that's why you should always insure your packages, Festool or otherwise.