Member-Only Access

[Michael Kellough]

Michael,

My Daddy calls me a card carrying commie 10 degrees to the left of Ghandi and Che,

The way I see the political spectrum 10 degrees is okay. But thirty degrees farther and yer rubbin' butts with the rightwinger's right wing from clear around the other side. 

 

[Per Swenson]

Do You mean a political reach around?

Per ......... thread stealer :

 

[Brice Burrell]

Do You mean a political reach around?

Per ......... thread stealer :

OK, that may be the funniest thing I've read on this forum yet, thanks Per!

 

[Michael Kellough]

Something just occurred to me, Matthew is asking that everybody sign in with a forum account to browse.

He's not necessarily asking people to pay to browse, just to sign in.

so what's the issue??

I believe you could have an account without being a forum supporter as I was in my lurking stage.

Just an observation.

From a purely selfish point of view I'm worried that come Monday morning I'm going to be struggling to remember my password so I can log on, although I'm hoping the cookie in my browser will allow me to sail on in as usual.

Also selfishly, I'm worried that some brilliant guy will be discouraged from stopping by with an idea for a parallel rip devise that would put my plans to shame and I'll have to go ahead and make mine.

Slightly less selfishly, I'm worried that fewer people will be persuaded to buy Festools when they don't have easy access to a forum full of helpful and encouraging people who already own the tools they are considering. My problem with that is that Festool will think the market potential is too small to bother bringing over the belt sander (for example) so many of you don't realize you want.

There are other reasons that I don't have time to list but if the reason for this restriction of access is because there are too many freeloading (commie  ) lurkers taking up bandwidth maybe there are other ways to deal with that. Maybe the present volunteer contribution system hasn't brought in enough money (I know it's all my fault for being a bad example) but maybe there are ways to encourage more contributions. Maybe, instead of trying to figure out how to pick a project worthy of reward there should simply be a raffle for contributors as is typically done by other organizations that need to raise money. I'd perk up and contribute then for sure. (I have a bad history with competitions).

How about some other ideas?

 

[nickao]

Michael I initially was all for the raffle and against the contest format. The guys on the forum shot me down. Now I am going with the flow. It's not going to happen and Matthew has said as much, so get on board it's all you can do.

A person with great info AND is surfing this forum is much more likely to be a person that wants to be a member. Since no non-members can post anyway you would never know. Someone who has a great idea and wants to share is going to be a poster anyway and would have to sign up anyway. Of course the browser will keep your password. Plus this is not a bank use any old word like "password".

What I do not get is so many people want real names to be used for membership, but now many  people are saying they do not want membership to be mandatory. I do not get it.

So we are supposed to use our real names so that people we do not know and are anonymous can see these names. It makes no sense.

Now that it is going to a membership format and only members can read, using real names would make more sense, though I still disagree with using real names.

For some reason I think this has nothing to do with donations. Could it have something to do with Festool not supporting the forums prize. I'm just throwing it out there since Matthew is mum on the subject.

Nickao

 

[Scott W.]

Do You mean a political reach around?

Per ......... thread stealer :

Your killing me Per

Scott W.

 

[ColoradoCop]

Pardon my interuption, but has anyone considered that someone, like Per for example, is holding Matthew hostage, forcing him to start this controversy for entertainment (drama) purposes?

Does anyone know where the boss lives that could go check on him?

No one has seen him.

I'm just saying.

 

[Zaphod]

With all due respect to Matthew, although he moderates the forum and seems like a genuinely nice guy, restricting access to READ information is
preposterous and myopic imho.  What is the rationale?

 

[nickao]

Only he knows the rationale  right now, something pushed him over the edge.  Myopic is a lack of discernment or long-range perspective in thinking or planning. That may be, but this is PRIVATE enterprise and he can do what he wants, it is NOT a democracy.

 

[Scott W.]

Only he knows the rationale  right now, something pushed him over the edge. 

Maybe, Maybe not. Could be he is a member of another forum that works that way & just likes it. Could be he's just fish'n, Could be anything...

I will hold my opinions until he decides to explain, if he decides to.

BTW Nick, hope that you heal soon from the TS bite. Be careful, those kids are depending on you.

Scott W.

 

[nickao]

Thanks for the thought Scott!

 

[Zaphod]

Only he knows the rationale  right now, something pushed him over the edge.  Myopic is a lack of discernment or long-range perspective in thinking or planning. That may be, but this is PRIVATE enterprise and he can do what he wants, it is NOT a democracy.

Nickao, Thanks for defining myopic; you've provided a valuable service for the members.

 

[nickao]

Hopefully I saved someone from using Google search.

 

[woodshopdemos]

My website, www.woodshopdemos.com has gained popularity in the years. This last month it had 24,000 unique visitors, of which 46% were new to the site and came from the search engines. That is pretty much the same ratio for all the months.  46% are "new customers" and probably hastily looking for specific information...the search engine just got them to the woodshopdemos site.  I want them to see the site. The site is always very picture full. That is the draw to many.  The more I can make them welcome, the better the chance of them coming back.  I wouldn't think of asking them to sign up.  My broadband useage just grows and grows. I have to change servers soon to cover the growth. That is a cost to me that is added to the already high monthly server cost.  To me that is the ball game. I worked hard to get it to where it  is. I don't want  to make it hard for anyone to view the site.

 

[clintholeman]

I haven't seen Matthews reply to the question. 
Maybe he isn't going to respond.
Matthew?  Matthew?

Perhaps there is a good reason to do it. 

 

[nickao]

My website, www.woodshopdemos.com has gained popularity in the years. This last month it had 24,000 unique visitors, of which 46% were new to the site and came from the search engines. That is pretty much the same ratio for all the months.  46% are "new customers" and probably hastily looking for specific information...the search engine just got them to the woodshopdemos site.  I want them to see the site. The site is always very picture full. That is the draw to many.  The more I can make them welcome, the better the chance of them coming back.  I wouldn't think of asking them to sign up.  My broadband useage just grows and grows. I have to change servers soon to cover the growth. That is a cost to me that is added to the already high monthly server cost.  To me that is the ball game. I worked hard to get it to where it  is. I don't want  to make it hard for anyone to view the site.

What is the point of getting more and more people on your site woodshop? Is it a money thing from ads or is it just that you want to help more people?

To me more is not always better. Maybe more people is not what Matthew is after.

Unlike your site this is a forum and has  a lot more feedback and participation, at least on the surface.  I have looked at your site hundreds of times, but it never occurred to me to ask you a question. I think we are talking different animals here. Matthew is going private and I do not think it is a bad or good thing, just what he wants to do for his reasons. If even 10% of the people looking at your site asked you questions you would be tied up doing nothing but answering them day and night.

Obviously Matthew will get less people looking. But will it be less quality contributers or just less lookie loos that do not participate at all?
I just do not see it as a problem for me or anyone else. It would only be a problem for Matthew and if he does not care about losing people why should we.

Anyone that has answered or posted is NOT effected at all, they are already a members, so why do so many people care so much about it? The people that should care are the people who are not  members and are not going to post and tell us anyway. I could see all the negativity if he made it mandatory contributions, but that is not the case.

Nickao

 

[pmkierst]

Anyone that has answered or posted is NOT effected at all, they are already a members, so why do so many people care so much about it?

People come and go. Mandatory registration means less come, and that degrades the quality in the long run. I like the quality. Is there some problem you have with members caring?

I, for one, would not have joined if joining had been mandatory to see content. Its not that I have any principle against it, it is just that I wouldn't put in the effort of joining until I know it is worth the effort. The vast majority of places demanding registration are trying to spam you, scam you or otherwise bother you. Now I know FOG isn't any of that, but unless I am awfully sure a place is good (recommendation from a friend), I'm not going through the time and effort of registering when I am likely getting screwed in the process (note the word likely, no, not in in this case).

Just one users feedback.

 

[nickao]

Okay last rant on this guys.

Well we will disagree on that.

I think you have it totally backwards. By making this private there is a lot less ways to get spam. Spam is usually from people who skim the content and not have to sign up. So I  do not get that statement at all. If Mathew requires registration he has a lot more control.

If  you came up with an idea and then saw someone posted it somewhere else saying it was there idea, with an open format like now you could never track down the perpetrator. If someone started spamming you would never find them. If it was members only you would know it was a member for starters. Then Matthew could track down the likely culprits, which is now impossible to do. Spammers and scammers normally do not sign up, they want to stay invisible, which is much harder to do on a private site. Instead of a quick glance they have to take the time and chance of creating a fake IP, identity etc. On a closed system it is much simpler  to identify this bad behavior which we rarely get here anyway. Right now that concern of yours is a non-issue.

And again, I do not think MORE means Quality. Show me the stats on that. I have Googled everything I can on forums and no where have I read that more hits turn into more quality members. If I am mistaken direct me to that info.

If you really think the site will not have quality because it will not grow, I say wait until next year is the only way you will know for sure.

Anyway, as long as Fred and Per, Elji, Dan, Brice, etc and the guys who are posting now keep posting, the quality will come to them. Signing up is NOT going to deter the die hard woodworkers. From what I have researched we will lose newbies and older people who just do not trust the internet. We may lose a few good people, but we will ever know.

And lastly and I mean lastly, I will not post in this thread again, you are forgetting the biggest factor. There are NOT that many places to go for Festools like this, if any at all. Its not like a common woodworking site. If people are looking for the best Festool info there is they will have to come here. Where else where they go? I am not aware of another Fesstool forum like this.

This is the best site and forum for Festools period. This membership thing will not degrade this forum, it is to specific a forum topic. At least until Matthew gets challenged and someone else opens a Festool forum. I think it will make the forum better and I have to think that, we have no other choice.

With your help we can make it better. Time will tell.

Nickao

 

[mhch]

Some ideas, all depending on what the SMF software allows or not,
to give non-members a way to know what this forum is about and
then if interested, become members.

BTW, this is exactly how I joined, i.e. spent some time watching,
and very quickly decided this forum was exactly what I was looking
for.

The possibities coming to mind are

- allow for a time limited guest access
- have a few selected threads publicly watchable, for instance
  MFT/domino usage
- what else ?

 

[monte]

Anyway, as long as Fred and Per, Elji, Dan, Brice, etc and the guys who are posting now keep posting, the quality will come to them. Signing up is NOT going to deter the die hard woodworkers. From what I have researched we will lose newbies and older people who just do not trust the internet. We may lose a few good people, but we will ever know.

And lastly and I mean lastly, I will not post in this thread again, you are forgetting the biggest factor. There are NOT that many places to go for Festools like this, if any at all. Its not like a common woodworking site. If people are looking for the best Festool info there is they will have to come here. Where else where they go? I am not aware of another Fesstool forum like this.

This is the best site and forum for Festools period. This membership thing will not degrade this forum, it is to specific a forum topic. At least until Matthew gets challenged and someone else opens a Festool forum. I think it will make the forum better and I have to think that, we have no other choice.

With your help we can make it better. Time will tell.
Nickao

AMEN / Very well said.