metric v. inches

[HowardH]

Having just started acquiring different Festool tools, it is forcing me to start thinking in metric equivalents rather than the good old inches and fractions thereof.  It does seem logical that metric would indeed be easier as you don't really have to do math in your head to divide out all those fractions but how many of you fellow yankees have come to that same conclusion and now build using metric units?  How difficult is it for you to change your method of thinking when figuring out plans?  Just curious.

 

[Les]

Howard,

I'm trying. The more I work with metrics, like you, I can see advantages. I still have to stop and think what size is this? It's not natural for me yet.

 

[HowardH]

That's what I'm thinking.  There are also some materials limitations such as plywood thicknesses that are in english units but since I mill my own rough lumber, I could always make them metric measurements.  I suppose I would need to buy metric router bits and a few other things.  Changing 48 years of doing things a particular way doesn't come easy! 

 

[clintholeman]

Having just started acquiring different Festool tools, it is forcing me to start thinking in metric equivalents rather than the good old inches and fractions thereof.  It does seem logical that metric would indeed be easier as you don't really have to do math in your head to divide out all those fractions but how many of you fellow yankees have come to that same conclusion and now build using metric units?  How difficult is it for you to change your method of thinking when figuring out plans?  Just curious.

I changed to a metric shop about 1 1/2 years ago - was a little tough in my brain for about 2 weeks - now I don't like to use the English measurements - they have become a pain!

 

[Tinker]

I have resisted the idea of metric for many moons.  I have made all of the mistooks in dividing measurements into halves and quarters, etc.  As with others who have moved int the world of Festool, I have had my share of problems in deciphering measurements, but have still resisted making any changes in my ways.  Recently, as so many others here have been doing, I happened to have the misfortune to closely observe the domino.  I have (reason for misfortune) been droling ever since.  My first inkling that I have to start changing my thinking was when i took my first lok at the sizes of those tiny little domino tennons.  For some reason, i had an entirely different picture in my mind.  It really sank in just how out of tune to metrics I am and if I were to be truly interrested in the advantages to the domino system, I would need to have a better grasp of metrics.  Yesterday, I weakened to the point of purchasing a steel rule with metric measurements as well as a 25 ft steel tape. Nah! I'm not interrested in the domino as a future addition to my toy collection  .

Next step is a metric caliper to size my rough lumber when I thickness plane. 
Tinker

 

[John Stevens]

I've done as Clint has.  A few things helped.  One was buying a set of metric-only rules:  600mm (about two feet), 150mm (about six inches, for my apron pocket) and a tape measure, then "hiding" the English rules where they were hard to get to.  This forced me to use metric measurements.  Another was taking metric measurements of my finger joints, hand, forearm, arm, to get a rough idea of metric sizes that would be easy to remember.

Finally, it's pretty easy to remember some key metric sizes that are roughly equivalent to English measurements--5/8"~16mm, 5/16"~8mm, 5/32"~4mm, 5/64~2mm; 1/8" is a hair bigger than 3mm, 1/4 is a hair bigger than 6mm, 1" is a hair bigger than 25mm, 6" is a hair bigger than 150mm, 12" is a hair bigger than 300mm.  Even after you begin to "think in metric," these rough equivalents are handy...for converting back into English measurements.

Regards,

John

 

[Wim]

When I started my technical education in the late 50's, we had to learn the metric system as well as the imperial system, even with the American twist of the thousand's of an inch. In that period we had lathes and mills from Great Brittan and the USA with inch-dials and the German, French and Italian machines in metric. Then we were handy in both systems. When in the early 60's even the British were exporting machines in metric, the inches became gradually a thing of the past. Nowadays steel rulers and most calipers are in metric and imperial but everything else is metric. To be honest, I think Napoleon was right with the introduction of the metric system. It is so close to our normal arithmetic that everybody should be able to do adding and subtracting with metric dimensions very easily. Only the "feeling" for metric dimensions is quite another story I guess. That will take some time.

 

[Cynric Williams]

well here in the UK a lot of commercial products are in metric, but we still measure distance in miles! I find that I use feet and inches down the yard but when it comes to precise measurement I uses mm. the key thing is that i know what I am doing event hough I mix units in projects

 

[Gary K]

At my age, I will stick to Imperial.  All my measuring tools are Imperial(dial verniers, indicators, micrometers,etc.)  I have the conversion charts on the walls to easily convert. It is no big deal.

        Gary K.

 

[bill-e]

Metric is the one thing I dislike about Festool.  You can argue which system is better or worse but that really isn't the problem.  The problem is that 99.9% of the people who might buy a Festool tool grew up using imperial.  I say might because I cant help but believe that there are those who just wont buy Festool because of the metric scales.  You can also argue about how hard it is to learn but that isn't the point either.  It's relearning something when there really isn't any good reason to have to.

So I'm making the switch in my shop but I'm not happy about doing it.  And what about all my other tools.  I now have to guess where XXmm is on my Milwaukee router or my Incra positioner...wanna guess how many times I'm going to screw that up  ;D

 

[Ned]

I now have to guess where XXmm is on ...my Incra positioner.

Bill,

I know Incra sells metric toothed racks to convert at least some models.  They're not very expensive.  I'd talk directly to Incra (www.incra.biz, I think).

Ned

 

[greg mann]

The only thing that defines metric or imperial is our measuring tools. Every dimension in wood or the resulting project is both imperial and metric. It only becomes one or the other when we measure it. Having said that, it makes sense to design and build around 'convenient dimensions', i.e. 20mm x 50mm rails and styles, or 3/4 x 2 inch rails and styles. So many times when routing a dado or groove using a guiderail we make two passes so it does not matter what the initial size of the tool is. The convenience in the math for metric really comes when one designs around whole metric sizes. If we just convert existing imperial dimensions to metric and are now working with 21.25mm x 52.3mm, well most or all advantage is lost and no one will see any advantage to it.

When I use my plunge saw I really don't pay attention to the metric depth scale. I set it according to the cut I want to make, The material dictates the depth. If someone wanted to know how deep I was cutting I would need to look at the stop setting.

 

[Frank Pellow]

I much prefer working in metric and all plans that I make myself are in metric units.

One of the big selling features for Festool for me is that the tools have metric scales.

 

[Ned]

I much prefer working in metric and all plans that I make myself are in metric units.

One of the big selling features for Festool for me is that the tools have metric scales.

I agree with Frank on all his points.

Also, some of the material you now work with is actually metric.  "3/4 inch" plywood is 18mm, some "1/2" is 12mm. 

Ned

 

[Jesse Cloud]

I hope someone in Festool has considered putting scales on their tools that show both metric and imperial.  How hard can that be.
My Bosch tools come with dual scales.

As far as things being all imperial, I think that boat sailed long ago.  Everytime I go to work on a tool (even Delta/DeWalt/PC/B&D) I reach for the metric wrenches first.

One of my favorite conversion aides is a little adjustable wrench I got from Lee Valley.  I shows imperial on one side and metric on the other.  I just open it to the dimension and flip it over to see what that is in the other scale

 

[Tinker]

I mentioned above that I had bought a couple of measuring tools. A steel 12" rule and a 25 steel tape.  the steel rule has metric on one side and American on the oposit side.  That is very helpful, as I will probably never be able to change my thinking to metric without some means of comparison.  The tape is a different problem.  I have been measuring objects in my shop and throughout the house to get an idea of what the metric measurementts are.  I really have no visual conception in metric and some measurements are quite surprising to me.  I was in for a surprise when i tried using the metric tape for an inside measurement.  I stretched the tape from inside corner to inide corner, locked it and then checked the side of the tape case to see how many mm's to add.  Immagine my surprise when I read on the side to add 2-1/2"s. 
Tinker

 

[John Stevens]

Immagine my surprise when I read on the side to add 2-1/2"s.

You'll know you're getting there when you see 2 1/2" and immediately think "hmmm, about 62 millimeters."  Hang in there, it comes to you like a snowball rolling down a hill.

 

[Gary K]

Metric is the one thing I dislike about Festool.  You can argue which system is better or worse but that really isn't the problem.  The problem is that 99.9% of the people who might buy a Festool tool grew up using imperial.  I say might because I cant help but believe that there are those who just wont buy Festool because of the metric scales.  You can also argue about how hard it is to learn but that isn't the point either.  It's relearning something when there really isn't any good reason to have to.

So I'm making the switch in my shop but I'm not happy about doing it.  And what about all my other tools.  I now have to guess where XXmm is on my Milwaukee router or my Incra positioner...wanna guess how many times I'm going to screw that up  ;D

Are you really gonna convert your whole shop?  I will just do what I already do, as I stated above. I have the habit of carrying around a dial vernier anyways, so I'm not really inconvenienced anyways. Also, one of my verniers is digital and all I have to do to convert is simply press a button.  If I put it on 2 1/2 inches and press the button it reads 63.50mm.
    Gary K.

 

[bill-e]

Gary,

With my feeble mind I think I will have to make the switch otherwise bouncing back and forth will only lead to mistakes.  I just bought one of those digital verniers with metric and inches so I'll be using that.  My biggest problem is that I don't do this stuff every day so it is going to take a while for me to adjust.

 

[Gary K]

Bill,

I still take jobs as a machinist (semi-retired) so the switch to metric is out of the question. I see absolutely no benefit whatsoever in switching to metric anyways. All my tools and equipment are in Imperial...why Switch?
    If I make something from a plan from a magazine...it is in Imperial. If I send away for a plan...it is Imperial. If I make my own plan from sketchup or just drawing a plan myself on paper...it is Imperial. I'm not trying to be rude but what is my advantage, again, in going metric?

      Gary K.