MFK 700 and 0 Degree base

[Pdevore]

I am looking at getting the MFK 700 but an unsure of the bases. I have a project coming up in about 2 weeks that will require about $6000 worth of laminate tops in an office space I am building out. I will need to do these inplace and dust collection is important.
Now to my questions
Why would I want to use a 1.5 degree base instead of a 0 degree base. It seams to me that I have always "squared" my edges in the past. Am I missing something here?
Why does Festool only offer the kit as a 1.5 degree base?
Can the bases be switched out if I bought the kit?
Are there any other options that you all would suggest I look at before buying the MFK or options to buy with the MFK to make it "work" better?

Thanks
Pete

 

[PaulMarcel]

The 1.5º base is actually the one you need if you are doing laminates.  With their bit in that base, you can flush the small edging of laminate without worrying about digging or marring the main surface laminate.  That's the whole reason for it.  Now for nosing/edge-banding that thicker, the 0º base is what you want because you more than likely need it square.

I'm sure the FestoolUSA site has videos of the MFK-700 in action doing laminate with the 1.5º base. See if that looks like what you are wanting accomplished, in case I'm misreading you.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Pete,

The 1.5 degree base "kills" the sharp edge of the laminate.  Remember doing it only with a file?  If for whatever reason you don't have the 1.5 degree base, you also have the option of purchasing a bit with that same purpose made by Freud.  I don't know about base substitutions as that would have to come from one of the dealers or Shane.

Just to add, Tom Bellemare had previously posted info on not using the 1.5 degree base on the edgebanding because you want a tight fit to the top laminated or veneered surface.  After the top surface is installed, then the 1.5 degree base could be used to trim that flush with the edge and "kill" the sharpness of the material.

 

[Pdevore]

The 1.5º base is actually the one you need if you are doing laminates.  With their bit in that base, you can flush the small edging of laminate without worrying about digging or marring the main surface laminate.  That's the whole reason for it.  Now for nosing/edge-banding that thicker, the 0º base is what you want because you more than likely need it square.

I'm sure the FestoolUSA site has videos of the MFK-700 in action doing laminate with the 1.5º base. See if that looks like what you are wanting accomplished, in case I'm misreading you.

Paul and Ken,
So are you saying that I won't be changing bits in between edging and tops? Currently I am using my T4, I edge the counter tops and use a flush bit to hit both edges the top and bottom of the front edge. I then Laminate the top and switch out the flush bit to a chamfered bit that I replaced the bearing to a larger bearing to ease the front edge. I changed the bearing to change angle at which the bit cuts?

It sounds to me that with the MFK 700 and the 1.5 base I could use the same steps and order but elliminate the bit change. Or does this mean that with the 1.5 base I would need to install the front edge and trim, then the top and trim, and then back to the front again to ease the sharp corner.

I think I am making this more complicated than it needs to be.

Thanks
Pete

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Pete,

What I'm saying is that if you don't want to have a noticeable bevel or line between the edgebanding and the top laminate, you need to use the 0 degree base to trim the edgebanding, then switch to the 1.5 degree base to get rid of the sharp edge from your top surface laminate that you install in the final step of the process.  Or just use the 0 degree base and buy the Freud bit that does that angle to get rid of the sharp edge of your surface laminate.  Unless you don't mind hand filing.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Here's the bit I'm referring to:

Freud Radius Laminate Trim Bit

 

[Pdevore]

Pete,

What I'm saying is that if you don't want to have a noticeable bevel or line between the edgebanding and the top laminate, you need to use the 0 degree base to trim the edgebanding, then switch to the 1.5 degree base to get rid of the sharp edge from your top surface laminate that you install in the final step of the process.  Or just use the 0 degree base and buy the Freud bit that does that angle to get rid of the sharp edge of your surface laminate.  Unless you don't mind hand filing.

OH trust me, I mind filing. I will have about 200 feet of edges to file.
Wow $535 for the Kit $155 for the 0 degree and $42 for the bit total of $732 that is almost the cost of the 2200.

If I dont go for the 0 degree is there a noticible gap or is it tight enough for commercial office space?

Thanks

 

[Pdevore]

Here's the bit I'm referring to:

Freud Radius Laminate Trim Bit

Nice option but only comes in 1/2" shank. Thanks for the link

Pete

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Here's the bit I'm referring to:

Freud Radius Laminate Trim Bit

Nice option but only comes in 1/2" shank. Thanks for the link

Pete

It's a 1/4" shank.  I would notice the "gap", but it's likely nobody would even think about it.  Call it a design choice.  [wink]

 

[Pdevore]

Here's the bit I'm referring to:

Freud Radius Laminate Trim Bit

Nice option but only comes in 1/2" shank. Thanks for the link

Pete

It's a 1/4" shank.  I would notice the "gap", but it's likely nobody would even think about it.  Call it a design choice.  [wink]

WOW its getting late. I looked at the overall diameter. Sorry.
I can justify the kit and bit but man the extra $155 plus the local government. it might put it out of reach for now. I might go to Woodcraft Sat and try it out.

Thanks

 

[semenza]

Hi,

I don't have the MFK700, but from what I have read I bet it will do what you want and then some.  Also remember Festools 30 day return policy.

Seth

 

[Sparktrician]

Here's the bit I'm referring to:

Freud Radius Laminate Trim Bit

The Freud bit Ken is referring to is the equivalent of the Amana No-File bit which I have used effectively for years.  I will note that this bit is primarily intended for use vertically, not horizontally, especially with laminates, for appearance reasons due to the taper of the cutting edge below the radius.  Without having used the Freud bit, I can't give more of an objective evaluation than this.  I tend to use the Festool straight bit in the MFK700 with either of the horizontal bases and seem to get good results. 

[smile]

 

[tbellemare]

To me it depends on whether you're doing edge banding or laminate work (Formica equivalents).

If edge banding, the 1.5-degree base with a straight bit to trim the top of the banding. The micro adjustment allows you to nail the line between the edge banding and top surface. the 1.5-degree base elminates marring the top surface.

If doing laminate, at least one procedure would be to apply the edge laminate and then use the 0-degree base and straight bit to trim flush with the top surface. The micro-adjustment lets you nail this. You could use the 1.5-degree base here with a very slight gap in front. You might want to try the 1.5-degree base supplied and see if produces results that you like prior to buying the 0-degree base. Then apply the top and use the vertical base and one of 3 Festool bits:

• 491026 - chamfer/edge trimmer in one
• 491673 - 2mm radius roundover
• 491674 - 3mm radius roundover

Alternatively, for the last step, you can get fancy and use a replaceable knife chamfer bit like 491671 or 491672

I wouldn't recommend the replaceable knife bits unless you do a lot of edge work or unless you just want the best. If you do enough, they pay off because you get four sides to each cutter and they are easily replaceable.

The straight bits recommended for the MFK are 491666 and 491670 (4-sided replaceable knives).

Tom

 

[tbellemare]

I forgot that another way to treat the edge as in the last step above would be to use either of the horizontal bases and a chamfer bit like:

• 491667 - 22 degrees
• 491668 - 30 degrees
• 491669 - 45 degrees

The feeler bearing that is used with the horizontal bases opens up a lot of possibilities. It is sort of the equivalent of the Angle Arm with Copier Scanning Set that is used with the OF 1010 and OF 1400.

Tom

 

[rmwarren]

Question from an amateur: is it common practice with laminates to apply the edge first, flush trim both top and bottom and then apply the top laminate and trim it?

I have only done a couple of counter tops and I used a PC laminate trimmer and straight bit w/bearing to trim the edge and then a bit with a slight bevel and a bearing to trim the top. Both times I marred the edge veneer just slightly. In one case the laminate had a "pebbly" texture and it seemed that the bearing followed it just a bit and cut minimally deeper at times. In the other case I attributed it to having the beveled bearing a bit to low, exposing more of the beveled cutting edge and scoring the face of the laminate.

Is there a better method (short of buying the 700) or do I just need to develop my skills and technique?

Thanks,

RMW

 

[Pdevore]

To me it depends on whether you're doing edge banding or laminate work (Formica equivalents).

If edge banding, the 1.5-degree base with a straight bit to trim the top of the banding. The micro adjustment allows you to nail the line between the edge banding and top surface. the 1.5-degree base elminates marring the top surface.

If doing laminate, at least one procedure would be to apply the edge laminate and then use the 0-degree base and straight bit to trim flush with the top surface. The micro-adjustment lets you nail this. You could use the 1.5-degree base here with a very slight gap in front. You might want to try the 1.5-degree base supplied and see if produces results that you like prior to buying the 0-degree base. Then apply the top and use the vertical base and one of 3 Festool bits:

• 491026 - chamfer/edge trimmer in one
• 491673 - 2mm radius roundover
• 491674 - 3mm radius roundover

Alternatively, for the last step, you can get fancy and use a replaceable knife chamfer bit like 491671 or 491672

I wouldn't recommend the replaceable knife bits unless you do a lot of edge work or unless you just want the best. If you do enough, they pay off because you get four sides to each cutter and they are easily replaceable.

The straight bits recommended for the MFK are 491666 and 491670 (4-sided replaceable knives).

Tom

Tom,
This project calls for ALL Laminate work, I have however done edge banding in the past I do prefer to go this route but as you know "The Customer is always Right" not really but they are paying.  ;D

Thanks

 

[Pdevore]

Well I stopped over at the local Woodcraft, can you believe they don't have a MFK 700 out on display for testing? If they did I more than likely would have tried it and bought it on the spot. They also do not have the Festool bits instock. I want to do this work Monday or Tuesday. I get frustrated when I want new stuff and can't get it right away.

Thanks
Pete

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Pete,

Sorry to hear about your troubles with the local Woodcraft, although it doesn't surprise me, from my experiences.

RMW,

As nice as the MFK700 kit is, it's not a necessity to be successful doing laminate work.  Plenty of pros have used other routers and bits and hand tools to accomplish the task successfully.  Just practice and make sure your bearings are clean and in good working order.

Question from an amateur: is it common practice with laminates to apply the edge first, flush trim both top and bottom and then apply the top laminate and trim it?

I have only done a couple of counter tops and I used a PC laminate trimmer and straight bit w/bearing to trim the edge and then a bit with a slight bevel and a bearing to trim the top. Both times I marred the edge veneer just slightly. In one case the laminate had a "pebbly" texture and it seemed that the bearing followed it just a bit and cut minimally deeper at times. In the other case I attributed it to having the beveled bearing a bit to low, exposing more of the beveled cutting edge and scoring the face of the laminate.

Is there a better method (short of buying the 700) or do I just need to develop my skills and technique?

Thanks,

RMW

 

[pjmerriman]

I recently acquired a very lightly used MFK700 and would be willing to let you take it for a spin (pun intended) to see whether it will work for your project.  You would probably have to get the bit, as mine is on order and has not yet arrived.  I live northern 'burbs of St. Paul.  Shoot me a PM if you are interested.

Pete

 

[junk731]

I used the MFK 700 for a laminate job last fall using the vertical and 1.5 bases with Festool bits. While the job can be accomplished with many other routers / bits combinations, the MFK, when setup properly makes the task simpler with very little chance for mistakes. The dust collection is about 70%, which while not perfect is a lot more than other routers. As a bonus if you do any veneer edge trimming in my mind its second to none.

John