MFS: Notes on the MFS

[TinyShop]

Just a reminder to all that any enterprising person with a credit card (ideally, tied to a PayPal account) and an internet connection can readily and easily locate and purchase an MFS of their choosing (along with additional profiles, accessories, etc.) from any number of online retailers. Everything you need to know to do so is located elsewhere on this forum. For instance, just spend a few minutes reading up on other posts related to the MFS. IOW just because Festool did a questionable job of marketing this brilliant device, doesn't mean that we here in N.A. need to suffer from their subsequent decision to quit importing it.

Here's the video - that along with all of the other MFS user content that's hiding in plain site on the web - sealed the deal for me (in it, the presenter shows how he is able to achieve stunning accuracy in processing sheet goods simply by using his MFS as a square in conjunction with a TS 55 and FS guide rail) [this technique, of course, is no doubt informed by the wonderful examples set by Brice Burrell and Jerry Work in their respective "guides to the MFS"]:


It's been written before (but bears repeating)...in a nutshell, the MFS is:

• an incredibly accurate square and squaring jig (for squaring your MFT/3 & other cutting machines, guide rails, cabinet carcasses, picture/mirror/window frames (and for gluing up all the above), etc.);
• a highly accurate and adjustable router, drill & jigsaw template/guide (for milling open field squares, rectangles, circles, arcs and other geometric shapes plus sliding dovetails, inlays, Dutchman, etc.);
• a router slide (paired with the slide accessory) for planing stuff like slabs or anything else that can or cannot be fed through a planer (a machine you may or may not already own);
• with a little forethought, a great platform for a precision uniform hole-pattern drilling jig (see my previous post for a couple of inspirational photos in this regard) and precision uniform mortise-pattern Domino'ing jig (see the following for inspiration:
  [could be used in conjunction with a Lamello, etc., too]);
• cauls for use during glue ups; and...
• the list goes on (and on, and on).

For me, the fact that this tool is in fact so many tools in-one helps significantly to justify the cost. Moreover, the fact that I'll be able to avoid having to make plywood routing jigs translates into material savings and time savings. How many members of this forum drop hundreds on a set of WP's precision square's? And a square only has one function! I'm all about multi-function so this tool should fit many indivdual bills nicely for me.

Be sure to check out Mr. Burrell's and Mr. Work's respective guides for more!

 

[08G8V8]

Just a reminder to all that any enterprising person with a credit card (ideally, tied to a PayPal account) and an internet connection can readily and easily locate and purchase an MFS of their choosing (along with additional profiles, accessories, etc.) from any number of online retailers. Everything you need to know to do so is located elsewhere on this forum. For instance, just spend a few minutes reading up on other posts related to the MFS. IOW just because Festool did a questionable job of marketing this brilliant device, doesn't mean that we here in N.A. need to suffer from their subsequent decision to quit importing it.

I did a search and didn’t see much on ordering except the last post in this thread. Not sure if this is a reputable method of ordering.

Has the MFS Router Template System been discontinued?
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/to....php?topic=45927&share_type=t&link_source=app

Is there another/better source? 

I see Woodpeckers does make a similar setup. It has no measurements along the lengths, so I was curious how much difference that makes in setup. I’m would think it definitely makes setup quicker.  Thoughts?

Thanks

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[08G8V8]

I guess it does have metric and imperial scales.  I thought it didn’t last time I looked at it on their website, but I guess I was mistaken.

I know this is a Festool site, but for those of us in the USA, what would be the differences in these 2 options?

Thanks

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Cheese]

I did a search and didn’t see much on ordering except the last post in this thread. Not sure if this is a reputable method of ordering.

Has the MFS Router Template System been discontinued?

PM me if you're looking for a source.

 

[Svar]

I know this is a Festool site, but for those of us in the USA, what would be the differences in these 2 options?

Other than dual scale the advantage of Woodpeckers template is better connection. In MFS there is a single screw in the corner - poor choice if you are connecting just two pieces (L or T shape). Also WP extrusions are easily available individually in various length.

 

[Samo]

I know this is a Festool site, but for those of us in the USA, what would be the differences in these 2 options?

Other than dual scale the advantage of Woodpeckers template is better connection. In MFS there is a single screw in the corner - poor choice if you are connecting just two pieces (L or T shape). Also WP extrusions are easily available individually in various length.

Also, not being Festool, more reasonably priced

 

[TinyShop]

[member=15585]Svar[/member] - True, though couldn't one simply purchase some spares of the left-hand threaded insert, small diameter-headed hex bolts and vee nuts (Festool 466353) to allow for connection on both sides when desired? Now, I realize that as far as spare parts go, they aren't cheap but....

Speaking of which, I stumbled upon the fact that the 80/20 folks early-on employed this same style of connector:

I'm now on a quest to locate an alternative source of the particular combination of connecting hardware which the MFS utilizes. I wonder if I'll be able to locate one?

[popcorn]

......well that didn't take very long:

Zinc plated hardware
https://us-product.item24.com/en/pr...tic-fastening-set-5-bright-zinc-plated-39160/

Stainless steel hardware
https://us-product.item24.com/en/pr...19/automatic-fastening-set-5-stainless-43746/

This has got to be the same hardware. The installation instructions for the "Automatic-Fastening Sets" even state that, "Important: The sleeve of the Automatic Fastener has a left-hand thread, the sleeve of the Automatic-Butt Fastener (with internal thread) bears a right-hand thread outside." Also, the associated non-standard small-diameter-head cap screw is an M4 X 30. Question: is the thread/pitch on the MFS cap screw M4 X 30?

As a curious aside, the instructions also state that, "Automatic-Fastening Sets should always be used in pairs." All the more reason to pick up some extras, no?

Anyone interested in an upgrade (and willing to engage in some light machining of some 12mm diameter holes) - may be worth it to eliminate the risk of the threads stripping out of the profiles - might get excited by the following connecting hardware:

Zinc Plated -https://us-product.item24.com/en/pr...sal-fastening-set-5-bright-zinc-plated-37027/

Stainless -https://us-product.item24.com/en/pr...17/universal-fastening-set-5-stainless-43752/

Now, from the looks of the stock profiles produced by this German company (another tip-off), the MFS is produced from a proprietary set of dies (it doesn't perfectly match any of the company's stock profiles). However, all the connecting hardware designed for the v-channel appears to be of a standard design (and looks remarkably similar to the MFS connecting hardware). I'm guessing, therefore, that the hardware compatible with the MFS is everything intended for the "Profile 5 80X20" extrusions (these look the most similar to the MFS profile - minus the T-tracks, etc.). Moreover, according to the info contained in Brice's guide, the MFS measures 80mm wide X 16mm thick. Meanwhile, the "Profile 5 80X20" appears to measure, well, 80mm X 20mm (which again may infer that the MFS is produced using a custom die).

Finally, as always, the Germans have thought of everything. Who won't get a kick out of the custom drill guide?

Or, for those wishing a less expensive option, the drilling jig?

So, there you have it. For the heck of it, I registered for an account and submitted an "Enquiry" for 10 each of the basic connecting hardware kits (in zinc plating and stainless - I want to be able to compare the pricing for the two different metal compositions). Not sure if they'll sell to the public but I'll report back whatever I hear. FWIW their U.S. headquarters is in Hagerstown, MD, and here's a list of their regional reps.

 

[Cheese]

[member=15585]Svar[/member] - True, though couldn't one simply purchase some spares of the left-hand threaded insert, small diameter-headed hex bolts and vee nuts (Festool 466353) to allow for connection on both sides when desired? Now, I realize that as far as spare parts go, they aren't cheap but....

Yessssss...that's exactly what I did when I restructured the MFS to fabricate some HVAC grilles from Brazilian Cherry. I added an extra fastener to each leg and it worked out fine. I think each fastener was around $10. Not initially cheap, however very cheap when considering the alternative. I was quoted a price of $105 per grill to have these fabricated by an outside service, not including the material. I needed 7 of them so do the math...$40 for fasteners vs $700+ for the finished product.

[attachimg=1]

 

[Michael Kellough]

Don’t recall the name of the company but Festool bought the MFS from the original developers.
Festool might have added the the plastic shoe to prevent the router from tipping?

 

[TinyShop]

Don’t recall the name of the company but Festool bought the MFS from the original developers.
Festool might have added the the plastic shoe to prevent the router from tipping?

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...ies/mfs-notes-on-the-mfs/msg596786/#msg596786

 

[Cheese]

Also, the associated non-standard small-diameter-head cap screw is an M4 X 30. Question: is the thread/pitch on the MFS cap screw M4 X 30?

Yes it is.

[attachimg=1]

Those upgrade kits are rather interesting.  [big grin]  There may be some in my future.

I learned early on that inserting, and moving 466353 from leg to leg is not an ideal situation as the outer sleeve can become loose in the extrusion and when you turn the M4 cap screw, sometimes the outer sleeve also turns so nothing locks down. It's better to just purchase the extra 466353 parts and install them in each extruded leg. If you need them they're always there.

Here's some original info on the GEAT system.

[attachurl=2]

[attachurl=3]

[attachurl=4]

[attachurl=5]

 

[Cheese]

Don’t recall the name of the company but Festool bought the MFS from the original developers.
Festool might have added the the plastic shoe to prevent the router from tipping?

[member=297]Michael Kellough[/member] it seems that the spacer/tilt protector was a part of the GEAT system.

[attachimg=1]

 

[Michael Kellough]

[member=64030]TinyShop[/member]  thanks!

“ The MFS was invented by the german company "GEAT" a few years ago. Festool bought the concept from GEAT and changed some parameters (the profile and the size - the GEAT-system was longer). The GEAT-system was universal, you could use it with almost any router.

There is still an english broshure for the GEAT-system available (nice description, many pics), you can grab it here ->http://www.geatsystem.com/geatwd/dt/znf/sdg_3e.zip

No need to say that the price raised a little bit when Festool took over the system 

Regards

Mark”

 

[DeformedTree]

“ The MFS was invented by the german company "GEAT" a few years ago. Festool bought the concept from GEAT and changed some parameters (the profile and the size - the GEAT-system was longer). The GEAT-system was universal, you could use it with almost any router.

Is there something not universal about the MFS that prohibits it from being used by other routers?

 

[Svar]

“ The MFS was invented by the german company "GEAT" a few years ago. Festool bought the concept from GEAT and changed some parameters (the profile and the size - the GEAT-system was longer). The GEAT-system was universal, you could use it with almost any router.

Is there something not universal about the MFS that prohibits it from being used by other routers?

They are all universal. Not sure GEAT was MFS predecessor. GEAT looks like standard 20x80mm t-slot aluminum framing. MFS profiles look more like Virutex template. Hard to tell who invented this concept, it's been around for a long time. Trend has a cheap version too.
I'll be a contrarian here and say MFS is a bit gimmicky. There is a small group of fans that swear by it, but when I see it used often there are simpler ways. I guess if you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
I would certainly not trust MFS as a square, or use it for clamping, or circle jig, or makeshift router table (as in one of the previous post).

 

[TinyShop]

“ The MFS was invented by the german company "GEAT" a few years ago. Festool bought the concept from GEAT and changed some parameters (the profile and the size - the GEAT-system was longer). The GEAT-system was universal, you could use it with almost any router.

Is there something not universal about the MFS that prohibits it from being used by other routers?

They are all universal. Not sure GEAT was MFS predecessor. GEAT looks like standard 20x80mm t-slot aluminum framing. MFS profiles look more like Virutex template. Hard to tell who invented this concept, it's been around for a long time. Trend has a cheap version too.
I'll be a contrarian here and say MFS is a bit gimmicky. There is a small group of fans that swear by it, but when I see it used often there are simpler ways. I guess if you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
I would certainly not trust MFS as a square, or use it for clamping, or circle jig, or makeshift router table (as in one of the previous post).

[member=15585]Svar[/member] - The GEAT was absolutely the predecessor to the MFS. Had you followed the various links I provided, you would have encountered the statement on the GEAT website's homepage that alerts visitors to the fact that Festool purchased them. The MFS's provenance, therefore, is not in dispute.

Moreover, had you read either of the MFS guides or watched the AskWoodMan vid I posted above, you'd know that the MFS is in fact an incredibly accurate and reliable square (and, for that matter, incredibly accurate T-square & L-square, circle jig, teardrop jig, sliding dovetail jig, open field jig, hole cutting jig...among other uses).

Finally, if spending a few minutes to set the MFS to the desired dimensions (and to also decide on a clamping strategy) is what results in you characterizing it as "finicky"- when the alternative wastes a piece of plywood in producing a one time jig (that often ends up being kept and cluttering up a shop) - then I suppose there's no convincing you that there might actually be a better way.

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] - Thanks for confirming the cap bolt spec and also for posting the GEAT brochure pages! I hadn't seen those before. It was certainly news to me that the GEAT was actually once available in N.A. Good history to be aware of. I subsequently added those pages to my file on the MFS.

 

[Cheese]

Ya, unfortunately without GEAT, the Festool MFS wouldn’t exist. They were the original incarnation of the MFS.

 

[ScotF]

I really like the MFS - it just takes time to use it and get things figured out and once you do, it opens up lots of possibilities. I use it as a fence to guide my jigsaw on some joinery tasks - works great and is repeatable. I like the circle cutting capability and will be using that function again this week on several circles I need to cut. I have used it to square my MFT and a host of other things. Too bad it was discontinued here...I dropped and dinged one of the profiles when it hit my concrete shop floor - so that was a bummer not to be able to easily replace one component. All in all a good accessory.

 

[Cheese]

I really like the MFS - it just takes time to use it and get things figured out and once you do, it opens up lots of possibilities. I use it as a fence to guide my jigsaw on some joinery tasks - works great and is repeatable. I like the circle cutting capability and will be using that function again this week on several circles I need to cut. I have used it to square my MFT and a host of other things. Too bad it was discontinued here...I dropped and dinged one of the profiles when it hit my concrete shop floor - so that was a bummer not to be able to easily replace one component. All in all a good accessory.

e
I concur...a great tool. I just ordered a couple of extra MFS 400 extrusions this week.

 

[simonh]

Is there something not universal about the MFS that prohibits it from being used by other routers?

I use it with my Dewalt routers and guide bush. There's only the circle jig that I didn't have the correct sized guide bush so I made a reducer on the CNC rather than buying the appropriate guide bush.

-Simon