MFT/3 Not cutting Square?? Need help very badly...I am very upset

[Administrator_JSVN]

Yes, give us a call for assistance.

I'm not sure how your TS 55 could be the culprit since it just rides on the guide rail. So, if the fence and guide rail are square, the cut should be square.

Is it possible the rail is bent?

Have you checked your square for squareness? https://www.google.com/search?q=check+square+for+squareness

How are you checking the cut for square?

Are the guide rail and fence locked down solid so there's no possibility for movement?

I hope my questions don't add to the frustration, I'm just trying to get more information.

I've also sent an email to one of my colleagues in Canada to see if there's anyone in your area that could pay you a visit to assist, if you want. If so, please send me your address.

Shane

 

[Saltan Wood Works]

Hi Shane, thank you for your response.

I am checking my square with the same square that I set up my fence and rail. It's Starret.

There is no movement on my track or etc. All stuff locked solid.

Rail is fine there is no damage or bent.

I am planing to shoot a video for... how I am doing the set up and the close up pictures with my square and post it on this page I think I am an idiot ( I am going to e-mail my address to your private e-mail address if I can find it in your profile.

Thank you so much for your help much appreciated.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

You can email me at sho@festoolusa.com.

Did you see my link about checking the squareness of your square?

And, to make sure, you're checking the rail against the metal part of the rail, not the plastic splinterguard, right? Not trying to insinuate you don't know what you're doing, just trying to rule out some possibilities.

 

[Saltan Wood Works]

For sure Metal to Metal...

I will check the link now.

 

[SMJoinery]

Hi

Doesn't anyone trust Pythagorus any more!
It's fairly simple to check something for square.
A2+B2=C2
Measure base (A)2
Measure height (B)2
Add together and it should equal a diagonal between the two points (C)2

Or even more simple measure 300 along base and mark a point.
Measure 400 up on the height and mark a point.
Measure between the points and it should read 500.

This identifies what on your set up is out and should provide a way to actually set out any MFT table system etc.

Sorry if it seems to easy but squares and straight edges can be damaged, bumped or knocked off.
Hope it helps.
Scott

 

[tiralie]

For sure Metal to Metal...

I will check the link now.

Erhan:
How much are you out of square?
If you want to call me I would also be happy to discuss. Pm me and I can call you.
It's difficult to understand where the problem might be without seeing your setup.
Tim

 

[tjbnwi]

A2+B2 does not equal C2. Your own example proves that out--(300+300) + (400+400) = 1400, not 500.

The proper formula for a square is;

√A²+B²=C

√((300x300)+(400x400))=C

√(90,000+160,000)=C

√250,000=500

If it is an equal length square, multiplying a leg by 1.414 will get you real close to the diagonal..

Tom

 

[gkaiseril]

It just might be a difference in the notation or not knowing how to enter the notation into computer text.

It might also be that the square needs to tested for being square!

This can easily be done with a good straight edge and setting one side of the along the straight edge. Now draw a vertical line along the other side. Now flip the triangle along the vertical line and keep the base along the straight edge. Move the triangle to the vertical line the side should be along the vertical line the full length. Any variation will twice the size of the error.

One can also check a straight edge for being straight by drawing a line along the straight edge and flipping along the straight edge over the line and keeping the edge along the line any difference is twice the error of the edge not being straight.

Both of the above will also detect a bow in the straight edge or triangle.

 

[wrightwoodwork]

1200mm2 +1600mm2 =2000mm2

 

[panelchat]

you might re check the rail or straightness. i had a bent 55" rail once and it took a bit of precise layout work to check and confirm a 1/16" bow across the length.
it was ruining the work i was doing.
the dealer replaced it immediately.

one foul up i had recently was that i forgot to fully tighten the hinged rail mount at the rear of the table.
it eventually got slightly loose and fouled up a number of cabinet making cuts.
it somehow didn't ruin the job i was doing, but i was lucky.
it wasn't obvious at first.
this probably is not the case of your issues but thought i'd throw it just in case...

it would be helpful on these threads to set a benchmark for what is "square", for instance less than 0.5mm out on diagonal measurements on a 24" square panel?

 

[tjbnwi]

1200mm2 +1600mm2 =2000mm2

So your saying a square with a 1200mm side and a 1600mm side has a diagonal of 4,000,000mm?

Tom

 

[Walk On Wood]

1200mm2 +1600mm2 =2000mm2

So your saying a square with a 1200mm side and a 1600mm side has a diagonal of 4,000,000mm?

Tom

Uh, isn't he saying that 1200 squared + 1600 squared =  2000 squared?  Thus, the diagonal is 2000mm

 

[tjbnwi]

1200mm2 +1600mm2 =2000mm2

So your saying a square with a 1200mm side and a 1600mm side has a diagonal of 4,000,000mm?

Tom

Uh, isn't he saying that 1200 squared + 1600 squared =  2000 squared?  Thus, the diagonal is 2000mm

2000 squared is 2000x2000=4,000,000.

As written it would be

(1200x1200) + (1600x1600)=4,000,000

1,440,000+2,560,000= 4,000,000

Tom

 

[Walk On Wood]

1200mm2 +1600mm2 =2000mm2

So your saying a square with a 1200mm side and a 1600mm side has a diagonal of 4,000,000mm?

Tom

Uh, isn't he saying that 1200 squared + 1600 squared =  2000 squared?  Thus, the diagonal is 2000mm

2000 squared is 2000x2000=4,000,000.

Tom

And the square root of 4,000,000 is 2000... Thus, Pythagorus is still correct after all this time.

 

[mastercabman]

Hi

Doesn't anyone trust Pythagorus any more!
It's fairly simple to check something for square.
A2+B2=C2
Measure base (A)2
Measure height (B)2
Add together and it should equal a diagonal between the two points (C)2

Or even more simple measure 300 along base and mark a point.
Measure 400 up on the height and mark a point.
Measure between the points and it should read 500.

This identifies what on your set up is out and should provide a way to actually set out any MFT table system etc.

Sorry if it seems to easy but squares and straight edges can be damaged, bumped or knocked off.
Hope it helps.
Scott

Yes it's the 3-4-5 solution  Easy to do!

 

[sancho57]

Thank you jobsworth,

I watched the same videos may be 20 times. I am using $150 US worth Starret 12'' square and my fence and track has no gap what so ever when I put my square against the both. Also I was searching for woodpeckers 18'' triangle square that all these videos shows the same red big triangle square but I can not find it anywhere. I think they don't make them anymore. I am thinking the problem could be with my TS55EQ saw. I am still cutting off square I am very frustrated.

Ya cant find the triangle it was a one time tool run. But they make another square its a 1281 runs about $90 guaranteed to be square with in .01.

Anyway another cause for error, is the black clamp that holds the rail to the table. Recheck your alignment after you tighten it. it will throw it out of square.

A video of you setting up your table might help us understand whats happening

 

[tjbnwi]

1200mm2 +1600mm2 =2000mm2

So your saying a square with a 1200mm side and a 1600mm side has a diagonal of 4,000,000mm?

Tom

Uh, isn't he saying that 1200 squared + 1600 squared =  2000 squared?  Thus, the diagonal is 2000mm

2000 squared is 2000x2000=4,000,000.

Tom

And the square root of 4,000,000 is 2000... Thus, Pythagorus is still correct after all this time.

Correct, you have to find the square root (√) not the square (²). The way it is written it shows to square the sum.

Tom

 

[SMJoinery]

1200mm2 +1600mm2 =2000mm2

So your saying a square with a 1200mm side and a 1600mm side has a diagonal of 4,000,000mm?

Tom

Uh, isn't he saying that 1200 squared + 1600 squared =  2000 squared?  Thus, the diagonal is 2000mm

2000 squared is 2000x2000=4,000,000.

Tom

And the square root of 4,000,000 is 2000... Thus, Pythagorus is still correct after all this time.

Correct, you have to find the square root (√) not the square (²). The way it is written it shows to square the sum.

Tom

No it doesn't show to square the sum, it shows that by performing this calculation the sum will be squared!
It's still and always has been A squared plus B squared = C squared
To then find the value of C you would square root the total but that's implied in the formula!
It's not A2 + B2 =C.
Hope that clarifies it because to the seasoned woodworker and eager DIY it's a life saver.
It can be used to provide sizes for Roof timbers for example!
Happy New Year.
Scott

 

[tjbnwi]

C=√(A²+B²) not A²+B²=C² take a simple 3-4-5

A(3x3 3 squared)+ B(4x4 4 squared)

9+16=25

√ (square root) 25 = 5

C2 as you type it implies to square the sum, 25 x 25 = 625.

Tom

 

[peter halle]

Now going back to the topic and question originally asked, any other thoughts on what might be causing the inaccuracies and frustration? 

Peter