MFT and Guide Rail Alignment

[Qwas]

Pixelmator, eh?  You can resize you pics with other programs that come with windows like Micrsoft Office Picture Manager.  No criticism intended here, just trying to be helpful. 

To be honest, I'm not sure. I've always used Photoshop but the copy I have won't work with my new Intel based Imac. So, as I started this thread, I desperately started to look for a shareware download that would allow me to post a couple of pictures here. I still haven't had a chance to see what all Pixelmator can do but I've been happy with it so far. I haven't even looked to see what the shareware cost is!

 

[John Viola]

?
[/quote]

It usually moves pretty easy. I've had my table for 18 months and never thought about waxing the tracks. It moves that easy.
[/quote]

Great, thank you for the explanation once again!!

 

[Ned]

Good summary, mhch, but if this is intended to be a summary in a single message, don't you need to mention at the beginning that all of this only works if you've squared the holes to the guide rail?

Ned

My mistake.  I think this covers it:

set the rail holding devices attached to the MFT side rails so that guide rail left side is resting against dogs plugged in vertical holes of the MFT.

 

[mhch]

Ned,

No problem, I know my English might be obscure and complicated.

I too made the mistake not to realize you sentence "never buy the same size rail"
was a link before answering another post from you.  Your note makes a lot of
sence,  specially since the TS75 which has a longer based than the TS55,
requires at least a 3000mm guide rail to cut a 8' sheet.

 

[Qwas]

Just want to let you guys know that I will be away for a few days, enjoying Easter! I don't want you thinking I disappeared off of  the face of the Earth!

I'm taking off tomorrow morning. It's sort of like one of those deserted islands - no internet, no phone, little TV.  I'm sure you've been there, it's Mom's house.

She has a couple of small projects for me so I will be taking the Festool collection with me and showing off to family, friends, and neighbors.

I'm sure others on here will help answer any questions that come up. Worse case, I'll be back late next week.

 

[poto]

Hey Steve, thanks for the truly enlightening posts. I used your table-hole idea today when I was working on some legs for a table. Worked great - and so much faster than trying to square everything the old fashioned way.

As for altering your digital pictures, try Graphic Converter (if you're using the mac os). It comes bundled with the os (or at least it used to be). I use it for almost everything. It won't replace photoshop, but for quick and dirty image resizing and simple processing, it can't be beat. If it isn't already on your machine, you can probably download a copy free or at least very cheap.

Poto

P.S. Have a great vacation. Is there really anywhere out there without internet connections anymore?

 

[Qwas]

Thanks poto and I'm glad it is working for you. The nice part is it easy to go back to your old ways if you ever want to.  And you can use the olds ways along side of this way!

I just looked through my applications and utilities folders but no Graphics Converter. Maybe it's not compatible with the Intel models? It's nice to have 24 inch screen but this Intel compatibility is nuts.

I will look into Graphics Converter when I get back. It sounds like it does just exactly what I need.

EDIT: I just looked and it is a universal binary. I'm downloading now and will play with it when I get back. Thanks poto!

 

[mhch]

I edited my "summary" post hopefully to make it easier to understand.
I also added links to other related threads or documents that can
benefit from the hole aligning technique.

 

[Qwas]

Quote from mhch:
3) What is not yet totally clear is how to make best use of  the parallelogram idea

- Using the rail as one side of the parallelogram is not convenient since rail must  rest on the workpiece to be
  cut, while the opposite side of the parallelogram does not as a result of plugging into the holes. This is
  definitely a problem for handling a thick workpiece.

I don't think you fully understood. I assume you mean having the parallelogram on the left side of the rail. The workpiece will rest under the guide rail and the far end of the parallelogram acts as a board stop or board guide. The far end does not sit in any holes. As the parallelogram swings, the far end pushes more of the workpiece through the rail for cutting. If need be, I can take some more pictures to clarify it when I get back.

 

[mhch]

  Yes I missed to understand what you meant.
  So far I viewed the parallelogram as a cheap homemade
  version of the incra device that slides and keeps parallel.

  Now I understand your excitment to combine your idea
  with the guide rail. A few pics showing examples of use
  would definitely be useful.
 
The parallelogram idea could be extended to making
repetitive cuts all parallel to themselves, by using
a few dowels that can be plugged into holes on
an additional rectangle piece of wood, so the rotating
arms can be repositionned at will always at the same
angle. I'm not sure this is very clear.

Tat would help when working on several large workpieces that
can't be processed together on the MFT, but still need to be
processed in an identical manner

 

[petiegolfer]

Ok peeps first post:

I have the MFT 1080 and this is a great thread...Ive been thinking about how to make things easier with the table as well and this definately helps.

Ok my idea...everyone is chasing the parralellogram idea...why?

All of the holes are square and inline....so use them to make a sliding fence!

Use two tracks...one at the top of the table one at the bottom...use the holes to locate them with dogs....they will be parrallel.

Then make up a rail with a 6inch slider at each end to go into each track. Insure that it is made up absolutley square.

This can then efectively be a fence that then runs back and forth across the table.

Or even easier could the sliders run in the table surround?

Piers

 

[petiegolfer]

Here we go...how about utilising something like this:
http://www.woodpeck.com/tracklock.html

Piers

 

[mhch]

Ok peeps first post:

I have the MFT 1080 and this is a great thread...Ive been thinking about how to make things easier with the table as well and this definately helps.

Ok my idea...everyone is chasing the parralellogram idea...why?

All of the holes are square and inline....so use them to make a sliding fence!

Use two tracks...one at the top of the table one at the bottom...use the holes to locate them with dogs....they will be parrallel.

Then make up a rail with a 6inch slider at each end to go into each track. Insure that it is made up absolutley square.

This can then efectively be a fence that then runs back and forth across the table.

Or even easier could the sliders run in the table surround?

Piers

Thanks for raising this point. I thought of it when reading Qwas proposal
(This is why I mentioned the thread discussing the Incra sliding fence).
Here are some thoughts of mine about this idea, and I'm sure Qwas will
add his own comments when he comes back from his Easter week-end

Considering the use of the side rails, we know from experience that they may not be square with
the hole pattern (This has been discussed in some other threads). There is even no guarantee
the two side rails are accurately parallel to each other. I agree that the sliding fence can be aligned with the
hole pattern (much like it is proposed to do so with  the guide rail), but if side rails are not accurately
parallel between them, it may not stay aligned when moved, or some sloppyness must be built
into the device that slides in the tracks and is connected with the fence, which is not good to accuracy.

T-tracks could be installed as resting against dogs at the periphery of the table, and either
clamped using Festool flat clamps, or screwed. I would not be confident enough in myself
to route dadoos parallel enough.

Also the sliding device itself should not be too sloppy, but this problem might be worked around
by using a wide enough fence (or the rail).

The biggest problem with a sliding fence is that tracks or the connection between tracks and moving
fence inevitably limit the workpiece dimension in between the tracks.

On the contrary, the parallelogram only has one side which is fixed against the table. All three other
arms can rest on the workpiece so there is no limitation of its dimension. There may also be issue
with building a parallelogram that stays parallel after being used for a while.

My personal point of view is that both techniques can be used, and which one is best depends on
the problem at hand.  The sliding fence idea might excel to cut small strip at right of the blade.

 

[mhch]

  By definition, this thread explains how to perfectly route dadoos which are parallel
  with the hole pattern .... I feel dumb !

  Use the guide rail, clamp it against dogs, and then let the router parallel guide
  ride this rail .... 

 

[mhch]

I'm tired,  the parallel guide is not meant to ride the rail, sorry,
This is the router guide rail attachment ...

 

[mhch]

I've been struggling for a while with this parallelogram idea, trying to find a good and efficient
use model for it. Here is what I came up with which I post here to give Qwas some food
for thought when he is back.

Let's have a parallelogram with two 'long' arms, at least as long as the MFT vertical side,
one which I call the parallelogram reference fence, and the other one is a guide rail.
The other two arms are short, on the order of twice the distance between holes.

- rest the straight reference edge of the workpiece against 2 dogs plugged into the leftmost hole row of the MFT.

- rest the parallelogram reference fence against 2 dogs plugged above and below the workpiece, on a vertical
    row of hole near the intended cut line and at its left. clamp it.  The two long arms of the parallelogram
    are resting flat and parallel on the workpiece.

-  Adjust the guide rail arm to be on the cutline as needed for the saw. Since guide rail stays perfectly
    parallel with the reference edges of the workpiece and the parallelogram, only one measurement is
    needed to position it very accurately. The MFT longitudinal stop can be used for repetive cuts
    (a piece of wood clamped to the MFT might also work for that) acting as a stop for the guide rail.

The key idea here is that workpiece rest against a set of hole dogs, and that parallelogram
can rest against any other appropriate hole dogs plugged into the MFT. no need for long tracks
running across the MFT as it would be the case with a sliding fence.

This way of doing things eliminates the need for the MFT fence, the rail bracket system,
and even the side rails ... they are all replaced by the hole pattern .... That makes it
easier to build homemade MFTs provided a very accurate hole pattern can be created

I reckon that all the above text may be obscure. I'll try to illustrate this with pics ASAP.

 

[petiegolfer]

Ok 

more thinking going on...

My idea of tracks... why not use the MFS system...

Run one long length along the base or top of the table then drop a perp of it...it already has a scale on it. Make up some dogs to fix in the mfs slot/s and then you can drop it in the holes ensuring that it is exact with the holey surface. You can bang it in at 45* and then still have a perp sliding component.

I have been reading Brices MFS thread!

Thinking about it this could get even more interesting if you use the scale and a fixed reference against dogs??? The Mfs slides along dogs in an L shape acting as a moving fence?? As we know the MFS components when fixed are at right angles to each other?

Easy peasy if you have some and maybe another reason to buy some?

Piers

 

[mhch]

  I think  this thread is about easing the use of the MFT as delivered without making any significant investment.
  There has been enough repeated questions about how to setup the MFT components to mmake a true square cut.
  So far squaring the MFT fence and the guide rail was thought to be the way to go, but
  now using the hole pattern appears to be a simpler, faster, and more reliable way to do it.

  The other question to address is how to position the guide rail so that the cutline is at a given distance
  of another edge of the workpiece, and this is what the parallelogram idea has been suggested for.

  I own a MFS and I spent some time trying to see how to use it within this context.
  Yes it can slide flat on the workpiece resting against the dogs replacing the MFT fence,
  in order to position the guide rail, but  a good square can serve exactly the same
  purpose and it seems that a good quality ruler resting flat on the workpiece is as good as
  if not better than the printed not etched MFS graduations
 

 

 

[mhch]

I forgot to say that I found the MFS too heavy and a bit too big to be used as a sliding square,
not really when it slides, but to get it, install it, and later store it.

Rail is light and easy to manipulate, a parallelogram would also be. The MFS is not.

 

[Corwin]

As I see it, you are making this way too complex.  You don't need to make a parallelogram, sliding fence or use the MFS.  Using the clamping element holders in the holes now makes achieving square quick and simple.  It also allows one to achieve a parallel setup quickly and simply too.  I will present a few setups that work on and off the MFT in the near future.  But for now, let me direct you toward the story stick approach to obtaining parallel...

A simplified example is to take two tri-squares and set alike.  Locate both along an edge of the MFT with the ends of their rules extending towards the guide rail.  Fix in place and align back edge of guide rail with the ends of tri-squares.  Okay, I know this is a crude example, so instead of the tri-squares, replace with scaled fence.  Align fences against clamping element holders placed in holes perpendicular to the guide rail to keep the two fences parallel with each other while each remains perpendicular with the guide rail.  I'll leave this description at this point, but I'm sure you can see where I'm going...  If not, I'll have photos of this and other jigs sometime soon -- just a few little details left and a 'hole' bunch of pictures to take.