MFT Rip Fence

[jujigatame]

I needed to make a bunch of 3-6 inch drawer sides out of 2x4 sheets so I made this jig with an Incra Jig.

It works great, simple, fast, repeatable, accurate.

I was having a hard time making a lot of thin rips with the TS55, this solved it beautifully.

The jig has a built in scale and is very accurate.  Once it is calibrated, I don't need to measure.

The jig itself is rock solid and once squared, it remains square.

Enjoy.

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[Les]

Nice. How long did it take to get the rail parallel to the incra jig?

 

[jujigatame]

It was easy, the Incra Jig is adjustable so I just placed it up against the rail and then tightened it down.

Works like a charm.

 

[Matt_]

nice idea, and I like the way it clamps to the side of the table.

Have you though about making a "kerf dummy" spacer that references from the ridge in the guide rail to where the fence side of the blade would run? In practice you could drop the spacer on and measure with complete confidence that the gap will be identical to the amount you want to cut.

Whenever I'm cutting and using the wood that's not under the rail, I get a bit phased... Subtracting the kerf and guessing how worn the 'zero-clearance' strip is is never a simple error free operation.

 

[cahudson42]

WARNING! (added 28 Aug 9:16 EDT) - I suggest you read this entire thread before deciding to make a similar fence. This is because subsequent Posts point out that it may be unsafe as shown, since the offcut is trapped between the fence and the blade. This presents a chance of kickback, either the offcut, or worse, the saw itself.

However, further Posts present solutions to this potential problem. One solution is to simply move the Incra rearward after indexing the workpiece and before cutting - 'untrapping' the offcut. Since the Incra repositions to 1/32, it is easy to position back.

An even simpler solution is to use a small shim in front of the fence, indexing while compensation for its thickness.  Then remove the shim before cutting, also effectively 'untrapping' the offcut.  This has the advantage of not moving the fence. (I use this method with a piece of 1/2" MDF in front of my maple fence).

My original Post follows:

Seeing how great your Fence came out, I decided to dig out the Incra Jig I had in a cabinet for a year or so.

My MFT is a 1080 - and apparently the rail details are a bit different. No 'V' - just a T-track. So my 3/4' ply Inrca jig base rides right on that track. I used a piece of 2 x 4 for the cleat - glued and screwed. With careful clamping with 2 F-clamps, the ply gets pretty coplanar with the table. Maybe a little sag - but means nothing in practice.

Also works out that with the 1/4" MDF top I use on the 1080 - the ply jig surface is level with it.

Most of the stuff I rip is maybe 4" to 11" max. So I set the jig back further on the ply, and use a 5" squaring shim ply offcut for squaring the jig up.

Thanks for the idea - and getting me off my b--- to make one..:>)

Chris - new FOG member

 

[BobKovacs]

The only thing that concerns me about these jigs is the potential for kickback.  I was always taught not to trap the offcut piece on both sides, as it gives it the opportunity to get thrown if anything gets slightly wonky.  In this case, you've one piece of wood trapped under the guiderail, the other pinned between the jig and the saw blade- maybe this isn't an issue with a TS (though I can't imagine it wouldn't be), but it was always a no-no on a table saw.

 

[cahudson42]

Bob,

That exact same thought occurred to me as well. It was the reason I never used my Incra with my TS-55 - until I saw it used as a fence in this post.

Over the last year, on occasion I have used a temporary stop the same way as these fences. Sometimes angled, sometimes straight. I was anticipating the kickback problem - but never ran into it. My guess is the TS-55/75 riving knife may be helping here. Also, we are not 'moving the wood' - where there would be more of a chance of going off-straight - and getting kickback.

It seems that with the wood held fast - both under the track and with friction on the offcut side - we are basically making a 'small kerf-width full depth groove' - and neither piece really moves. Just a guess.

Also, unlike a table saw - the entire piece is not free to kickback. The offcut piece is. But the main piece is held fast under the track. (I also clamp it down on the other side of the fence)

It might be possible to fabricate a swinging overarm 'guard' - sort of like a European Router Guard - and swing it/slide it  over the offcut. But that also might bring its own problems.

As it is, I stand far to the left of the offcut when I cut - and if it flys - I'm nowhere near it.

Also, it would seem the potential for the offcut flying is worst on crosscuts of narrow pieces?

More serious problem it seems to me is the chance of the saw itself kicking back (why I hated my old B&D circ saw when cutting freehand. Ugh.)

When I tested my fence earlier today I did my best to assure it was parallel with the track. I also made sure that while the fence was snug, it was not 'firmly in compression' against the workpiece.

Another approach might be to simply move the fence away after the width of the offcut has been determined. With the Incra  repeatability to 1/32, it should be easy to reset to the original width for the next piece.

Another might be to simply clamp down the offcut so it too can't move.

A third might be is to always use a couple small shims between the fence and offcut. After setting the offcut width with the shims in place, remove the shims and cut. This avoids moving the fence. Put the shims back when determining the width of the next piece. Then remove. etc.

I'd like to encourage anyone else to offer an opinion on the safety of this - and any suggestions.

Chris

 

[Qwas]

I was concerned about the safety also. Chris has a good answer by moving the fence away.

My other concern is you are defeating one of the purposes of the guide rail. If I understand this setup correctly, the "good" piece of wood is to the right of the rail and the "waste" wood is under rail and getting a splinter free cut. Why would you want the waste to get the advantage of a better cut?

 

[nickao]

Sorry guys this is totally unsafe and needs to be taken down to keep the rules consistent on the forum. If this is not deemed unsafe by the moderators I don't know what is. You can't trap a piece in between the fence and the saw, even in this set up all it would take is the blade moving a 1/64 of an inch and clipping the piece of wood after the cut through to create havoc.

And please don't say it can't happen, my son was doing something similar(except no fence just a piece of wood clamped down as a fence) with a TS75 and the piece of wood came flying back, the saw kicked up and on the rail and the rail was destroyed. The piece flew out about 15 feet.

You need to turn the saw and rail around and cut from the other side and use a spacer against the fence(if your original piece is not large enough to get the cut piece out from under the rail) to push your piece under the rail and out the other side the amount needed . For a 2" rip just move the fence  2" make a cut, move the fence 2" again, make a cut, etc.   The cut piece will not be under the saw and you have to keep moving the fence as well, but it safe this way.

 

[mouppe]

Isn't this fence just accomplishing what the parallel guide does? Not the large parallel guides, but the aluminum fence that locks into TS55 base. I was ripping small pieces yesterday with this parallel guide, and it worked well. But theoretically, is it not also trapping the offcut between the fence and the blade?

Festool deem that guide a safe enough product to be put on the market.

 

[cahudson42]

Sorry Nick,

NOTHING should be 'taken down" - rather you have someone not have the benefit of this discussion?

Several comments have suggested solutions so it is safe.

Give us some more details on your Son's experience? Wood, thickness, etc. Also, any chance your Son might have been doing a climb cut? (Did he repeat what he did as a 'dry run' for you?)

Photos recreating the situation would be most helpful.

Chris

 

[Jesus Aleman]

I have a similar setup, but I use the incra fence on the left side of the guiderail.  The fence has a spacer that is the same width as the guiderail.  I index the fence to the 20mm holes.  In this manner I can cut material from any width up to 20" with great precision (I just have to index from a different hole).  This is a bit more versatile and has no issues with trapping material.  

JGA.

 

[cahudson42]

JGA - can you give us a bit more details and photos?

Chris

 

[RONWEN]

The setup on the right side could be made 100% safe by adding the use of a removable parallel of a known dimension (say a piece of 1/4" x 1" x 24" aluminum) that is removed before the cut is made. The Incra jig dimension would be offset by the known dimension (the thickness of the 1/4" aluminum parallel).
As was already mentioned the piece on the right of the guide rail doesn't benefit from the splinter guard where if the same setup was made for on the left side of the guide rail (using a parallel the same width as the guide rail) the parallel would be left in place and the "good" piece would be splinter free. 

 

[peter halle]

Wouldn't using the green accessory splinter guard render the offcut - piece to the right  - splinter free?

 

[Qwas]

The splinter guard does good but not as good as sitting under the rail.

 

[peter halle]

The splinter guard does good but not as good as sitting under the rail.

I haven't had any issues, but perhaps that was based on material, etc.  Good to know!

 

[nickao]

The setup on the right side could be made 100% safe by adding the use of a removable parallel of a known dimension (say a piece of 1/4" x 1" x 24" aluminum) that is removed before the cut is made. The Incra jig dimension would be offset by the known dimension (the thickness of the 1/4" aluminum parallel).
As was already mentioned the piece on the right of the guide rail doesn't benefit from the splinter guard where if the same setup was made for on the left side of the guide rail (using a parallel the same width as the guide rail) the parallel would be left in place and the "good" piece would be splinter free.  

Absolutely Ron I agree, but as is, it is not safe.  I wonder why this thread stays up. I have seen things I deemed safe taken down so I just don't get it, this is obviously not safe.. Whatever.

 

[nickao]

All it takes is pressure on that cut piece, just clip the back edge of the blade to that cut piece, slapping the cut piece into the fence and the piece can fly out wildly in any direction. Hey I have the short 30" guide rail after I had to cut off the rest of a 55" rail after the saw landed back on top of the rail. Cutting to the right does not matter, a piece getting squeezed into the fence while simultaneously touching a spinning blade in any direction does. If the Festool setup cutting to the right has a place for a fence to trap the wood then it is a not a set up as well, I never used it, but I did not think anything was on the right to actually trap the wood.

It's not curious at all. The piece did NOT shoot out like a bullet hitting him in the gut like it does on a table saw, but up in the air and back over his head. I am sure the piece can shoot out in any direction in this case depending on what the flying piece hits as it bounces or how the blade clips the wood piece, etc..  I can't remember what was next to the set up on the table at the time. Why I would have to prove something is unsafe to take it off is the forum is ridiculous and isn't  my problem. It's just I have seen pretty neat stuff that was safe deemed unsafe taken off that's all. I am not remarking on it again.

I have nothing to gain by dissing a set up or stating it is unsafe, just sharing an experience, take it or leave it. Like I said, whatever and be careful.

 

[mbolt3]

I have been a member of the FOG for awhile, but until now have never been moved to post anything until I saw this thread on the Incra Jig.  I have thought for some time about using some form of the Incra Jig on my MFT 1080 from both the left and right sides of the guide rail (as well as some form of fence for crosscuts since I am not crazy about the fence on the 1080); but, I have just been too busy (or . . . uh . . . too lazy??) to build anything. I think that using some combination of Qwas dogs, rail dogs, and an Incra Jig fence system (which could be quickly squared to the 20mm holes with the aid of some Qwas dogs) would make for a nice, portable and reliable fence system for my MFT 1080.  

Anyway, here are my thoughts on this thread (which are only theoretical since - did I mention - I have not actually built any Incra/MFT jig):

On using the jig from the right hand side, I have always thought it would not be a safety issue since, once you have your board set against the Incra Jig fence, it would be a simple matter to quickly move the Incra Jig fence away from the work piece so that no binding occurs and then make the cut.  Then, after the cut, since the Incra Jig can be readily returned to its original start/zeroed position, you can quickly move it back to the original cutting width position and set up your next cut.

That being said, I think Jesus Aleman has the better take (in his post above) on using the Incra Jig - work from the left hand side of the guide rail with a spacer the width of the guide rail attached to the Incra Jig.  Then you can make repeatable cuts anywhere from very narrow cuts up to the maximum amount of travel of the particular Incra Jig you are using (Jesus appears to be using one of the bigger Incra Jigs with up to 20" of travel) without having to move the Incra Jig setup to a new position on the MFT.  Jesus - pictures of your setup would be great.

Well, that is my two cents -  other than I think I need to go out and build an Incra/MFT jig for my 1080.

MBB