MFT3: Festool Seeking Member Questions

[porkchop]

I agree the existing table is great. It's a little hard to get used to the idea of not using clamps in tracks to clamp at edges of table. I guess the mft3 is the same and doesn't offer a "ninety degree" track clamp. Maybe it would put too much pressure on the tracks and distort them?

I would like to see more upgrades/features to justify them abandoning the old tables and those who purchased them. Maybe they should have offered both for a few years?

 

[graphex]

Maybe they should have offered both for a few years?

Or at least no gap. I was just about to buy a 1080 when I heard about the MFT3. I think those of you with any type of MFT take it for granted. I can only dream of how nice it must be to toss some wood under the rail, close and saw. I'm trying to find corners and edges to clamp to my plywood-on-sawhorses worktable, saving my offcuts to support the rail so it doesn't bend or twist. I've got to wait 2 more months before I've got a table at all. Hopefully by then the plywood I've been cutting into swiss cheese won't have completely collapsed!

 

[Corwin]

... I'm trying to find corners and edges to clamp to my plywood-on-sawhorses worktable...

Hmmm, I could sell you four corners and four of the longer profiles off the current (soon past) MFT 1080.  Worked great between two 1080s, but is now disassembled because it was just too large to have up in my shop on a perminate basis.

 

[graphex]

I appreciate the offer, but I'm also working with limited space and will continue suffering until the MFT3 can be produced. :-\

I think of these tools as investments, (although woodworking will only be a hobby unless I get much better at it) and I don't want to invest in something that's already been 'delisted' as it were. I'm sure the functionality of the two versions is very comparable, but if they release a new v-grove compatible accessory that I 'need' and I have to reinvest the full amount of a table I'll kick myself.

From what I've read here, a primary component in the tooling of the 800/1080 broke, (extrusion form?) leading to the gap between MFT versions we're experiencing. It is my nature to complain about gaps like this - and their impact on the consumer (I have a degree in advertising/graphic design, after all) but when it comes down to it, I'll just hold on until the release with only a few complaints about how a company which probably has more money than God takes 3 months to get a new tool built for a critical niche they engineered themselves 

Ironically enough, the project I'm working on now is a workbench. I intended it to be supplemental to a MFT, and I counted on having an MFT to complete the steps to build it. As it stands, I'm trying to make up for the deficit of having no mitre saw and just a TS-75 with the included rail and an additional LR-32 to get things done with. I think it is possible, just quite a few extra steps, some difficulty cutting things properly, and I keep messing things up just enough to where I would appreciate what a reference surface and square MFT fence would give me.

I've been posting to the Angle Guide thread lamenting how it de-squares itself so easily. I got a horrible table saw (DW 745) which I can't really use for much of anything in my current project (and it makes me fear for my life - or at least my hands). Both of these would be moot points if I had an MFT, of course, so I'm just trying to get through this project (and my $800 of maple) without completely buying the farm.

It is going to be a great workbench if I can just get the ends of the stretchers and legs square. I'm really close, but I was mitering the legs, and the plywood/sawhorse table I'm cutting on was bowed, so the cut pinched a bit and now they've got saw marks on the ends and aren't that square. Oh well, I'm really just a beginner (this is my second wood project since wood shop in middle school) so I should just take my knocks and see how forgiving the design will be.

Aww crap, this post turned out to be way too long winded. I'm sorry if you've read this far.

 

[Michael Kellough]

... I was mitering the legs, and the plywood/sawhorse table I'm cutting on was bowed, so the cut pinched a bit and now they've got saw marks on the ends and aren't that square.

You need an MFT now.
Or at least, a flat piece of plywood (or MDF) and a couple of (shimmed) level sawhorses.

 

[porkchop]

the festool table does become something you take for granted and the entire "system" (which is anchored by great dust control) is more than the sum of the individual tools. But I think some tools shine much brighter than others. For me the saw and guide system and the domino I could no longer work without. Everyone has their favorites and there are no real losers in the line. The sanders are great for woodwork I just wish they had a real production sander (not random orbital)  that could compete with a milwakee 5000 for production sanding of other things. Festools sanders are slower than molasses when it comes to heavy jobs (boats, fiberglass, etc)

My old table which was 2'by 8' made of three layers of laminated 3/4" maple ply and edged in maple with lots of holes drilled in top and legs for using the old style "hammer in the hole" bench clamps is still really useful and sometimes still easier and faster (just as a compound slider is sometimes a better tool for crosscuts and sometimes a table saw for ripping) but overall the festool mft has so many strengths and options and is portable. I recommend taking the plunge and just getting one to any skeptics. Should be some used ones as some people upgrade to mft3

 

[porkchop]

oh yeah, this has probably been asked a thousand times but I am new here. Why no CMS or table saws in the US of A?

 

[Brice Burrell]

oh yeah, this has probably been asked a thousand times but I am new here. Why no CMS or table saws in the US of A?

Festool has been unable to get UL (Underwriters Laboratories) approval for the CMS here in the States.

 

[Don Bullock]

Don,
For me, the MFT has become such a central part of every project, I sometimes don't think about it too much.  That might sound like a hypocritical statement, but it's true.  ...
Matthew

First, thanks for those of you who have replied about the MFT. I appreciate the input.

Matthew, that's just my point. I could say the same thing for my Black & Decker WorkMate that I've been using for about thirty years. Since I don't have space for a bench, it's the most used tool in my shop. I literally use it for everything that is at all possible. You'd be amazed what I've used it for. People say that their MFT is central to their shop, but I could do most of the same things (remember I don't have a Festool circular saw or router) about my WorkMate. What makes the MFT so unique that it "solves" my woodworking problems or makes my woodworking so much easier? Those are the types of questions that Festool needs to address if they are going to penetrate deeper into the market. After buying a Festool sander you don't have to convince me that they are well made tools and work well. That alone, however, isn't enough to convince me that the rest of their tools are "musts" for my shop. I'm sure that I'm not alone. There are many more who are out there wondering what it's all about. One only has to read the woodworking forums to find that out.

 

[Dan Clark]

Don,
For me, the MFT has become such a central part of every project, I sometimes don't think about it too much.  That might sound like a hypocritical statement, but it's true.  ...
Matthew

...
What makes the MFT so unique that it "solves" my woodworking problems or makes my woodworking so much easier?
...

Don,

I agree that we need more of this information.  However, one of the major issues is that the value of the MFT is a little different for everyone.    Some people love it.  Others say it's too heavy and bulky to move around.  What you use it for may be different from me. 

If you add a guide rail plus accessories to an MFT, it becomes a decent cross cut table saw.  The number of ways that you can use if for a clamping station is amazing.  I've clamped my Makita belt sander to my MFT for a stationary sander.  I've used it for glueup and sanding.  I've used it to clamp sheetrock for some cutting.  It's a convenient place to put tools when I'm working.  With a Ridgid flip-top stand, I used Festool clamps attached to the side to clamp a board for planing.  Clamp down a guide rail to a piece of wood and rout on it.  You can connect two or more MFTs together to make a big MFT.  Lots of options.

Here's a pic of a quick and dirty "vice" setup that I created in about 20 minutes. 

And here's the routing jig I set up to cut the slots for the "vice":

Here's a pic of Jesse's setup for quickly ripping some small strips:

Here's LaserGecko's sanding station:

Perhaps you might fancy a nice glue-up station like Matthew's:

I have a WorkMate and still use it occasionally.  Sometimes with my MFT.  My WorkMate is still useful, but doesn't have near the flexibility of the MFT.

The bottom line is YMMV.  YOU take the MFT where you want it to go.  It has the flexibility, but YOU make it useful.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

I just wish they had a real production sander (not random orbital)  that could compete with a milwakee 5000 for production sanding of other things. Festools sanders are slower than molasses when it comes to heavy jobs (boats, fiberglass, etc)

Porkchop,

Are you referring to this Milwaukee beast? http://www.toolbarn.com/product/milwaukee/6065-6/
Until joining FOG, I previously thought of such tools as HD angle grinders primarily used by welders and autobody repair shops, and not as woodworking tools.  (I have no experience with boat building / repair.)  I have also thought such HD rotary sanders/grinders to be heavy and hard to handle, and maybe even dangerous for small persons like myself, so my tools collection doesn't include one of these.  I stopped at a ~9A, 7" diameter angle sander/grinder unit with a full metal case.  I use it when I have to smooth a rough concrete or masonry surface, cut stone or brick, cut/grind iron or steel, or hog some wood in rough construction.  (An example of the lattermost is sanding to a level/plane a series of installed joists/studs using string lines as a eyeball sight guide.)  My machine has no dust collection whatsoever, so that means I do not use it inside unless I cannot think of any other way to do the job.  I agree that a right angle sander/grinder that is NOT random orbit or Rotex mode but larger than the RAS 115 with good dust collection could be a useful addition to the Festool products line.

Dave R.

 

[mysterium]

Dave,

Festool sells a larger model than the RAS 115 in Europe, but I'd hardly say the RAS 115 has "good dust collection..."    More like it captures maybe 50%....  For the the down & dirty job it does the RAS 115's dust collection is certainly better than nothing.

jim

 

[porkchop]

Maybe dust collection is impossible with a true heavy duty sander. But I would pay top dollar for one if Festool could make it. The "aggressive" setting on the current largest USA festool sander is just a joke. Makes the tool have a gyroscope feeling that is useless for anything but exercise and enhancing carpal tunnel syndrome. A true circular sander is capable of extreme finesse (think of sanding surfboards for example where very thin fiberglass laminations are shaped with great precision) I suppose it's just an impossible dream. I love the festool in random orbit mode and dust collection is superb (also love my little fein multi-whatever it's called) just wish the festool sander had a non oscilating circular sanding setting.

On the subject of using rough tools for fine work, it's all the skill of the craftsman. I watched a Tahitian cousin of mine carve a beautiful bowl by holding a huge chunk of wood between his bare feet and carve it with a chain saw. He used the saw in ways it was never meant to be used to great effect. Scared the hell out of me just watching but it was an amazing display of skill and just a "normal" way to work for him.

 

[Eli]

you mean 'stumpy'? I've seen some of his work.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Maybe dust collection is impossible with a true heavy duty sander. But I would pay top dollar for one if Festool could make it.

Porkchop,

I completely agree.  I'd swap what I now have for a machine that had effective dust collection, and I  would undoubtedly use such a rotary machine more than I now do.  But until then, I'll keep using what I have.  But if I did not own any machine in the rotary grinder category, I'd likely try/buy an RAS 115.

Dave R.

 

[JCGreenwood]

Everyone,
As many of you know, Festool will soon be introducing a new version of the Multi-Function Table (MFT).  It is called the "MFT3."

As Festool prepares to release the MFT3, they are interested in gathering questions from members of this forum.  Festool will use your responses to be proactive in addressing customers' interests and concerns.

So please jump in and tell Festool what you want to know about the MFT3!

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[nickao]

Maybe dust collection is impossible with a true heavy duty sander. But I would pay top dollar for one if Festool could make it.

Porkchop,

I completely agree.  I'd swap what I now have for a machine that had effective dust collection, and I  would undoubtedly use such a rotary machine more than I now do.  But until then, I'll keep using what I have.  But if I did not own any machine in the rotary grinder category, I'd likely try/buy an RAS 115.

Dave R.

I don't know about that. Check out the NEW Fein 8", its better than the older model. I think it is a mol1200 E

It is not true Rotary(they do make a version) and is a massive sander with great dust collection. This I think is designed more for boats. This sander weighs 7.7 lbs!

Fein Rotary/Orbital 8"

The rotary is # FSS12-27E.

Nick

 

[mysterium]

We've kinda wandered off topic here... But

Nickao "Thanks" for the link on the Fein.

The Fein 8" beast however looks like a killer coming in at 7.7 lbs.!!!  Granted the RO 150 is a 6" sander but it comes in at 5 lbs.  Or the Bosch 1250 DEVS at 5.3 lbs. & it has a Turbo mode. 

A note about the Bosch: I've spent hours with both the 1250 DEVS & the RO 150 and I'll tell you that it is a virtual dead heat between the two sanders.  And the Bosch is a couple of hundred cheaper... Ouch!!!  "Sorry Festool" http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=1250DEVS  Festool RO 150 has a step up however because of the variety of quality paper it has available.

Weight is a killer on your body when your holding one of these beasts over head for hours with 40 grit trying to tear the thing out of your hands... every oz. counts... pounds will send you to lip lock on a Advil bottle or straight to your Chiropractor!!!  What did get my attention is the Fein 6" at only 3.7 lbs. however I be surprised that it would be as effective as the RO 150 or the Bosch 1250 DEVS since it does not have a rotary mode.

jim

 

[nickao]

You know I am going to purchase that Bosch on your recommendation tomorrow. I just googled and there are a few head to head review comparisons and the Bosch looks good.

Thanks,

Nick

 

[mysterium]

Nickao,

Believe me when I say I am a Festool fan.  I own 10 Festool sanders, 9 different models total.  Not to sling mud at Festool but the Bosch 1250 DEVS is a good sander.  The RO 150 & new RO 150 FEQ's are feature rich but when it comes to head-to-head sanding the Bosch is dead even.  Plus when you look at the dollar difference you could still pack the Bosch in a new Systainer with lots of green in your pocket.

jim