MFT3-MFT3/VL-CMS Basic UNIT-CMS-OF

Rob-GB said:
jmbfestool said:
Rob-GB said:
Why are you trying to fit them to the MFT/3?
They fit the CMS and the Kapex, where they are a useful addition, can't see the point of them on an MFT.
Or am I missing something, 'cos I do that with surprising ease sometimes. [unsure]
Rob.
Click to expand...

The MFT3  and the MFT3/VL  have the same V groove and box groove around them.  So if you was to use the Arm exenstions on the MFT3/VL cms you would get the same problem I showed above.

I just demotrated it on my MFT3  instread of my VL  but I can do a picture with the VL if you want.

JMB
Click to expand...

JMB, I was unaware that the profile around the CMS and MFT/VL were so different, had you done the demo pics on the VL, I would have understood from the get go.
It certainly looks like the design team dropped the ball on this one. [eek]
No offence was intended in my earlier post, just an enquiry [bite tongue]
Rob.
Click to expand...

No offence was taken mate.  I think I did do the demo pics on the VL thinkin about it you know  if you look at the picture you can see the MFT table in the back ground. Also if you look at the first picture to your reply you can see the layout is different and the room not painted. You can see the VL is attached at the front of the MFT.  So I did do it on the VL.  Sorry I forgot! I have spray painted upstairs and then moved everything back into the rooms and laid it out differently..

But you did say you couldnt understand why you would attach it to the MFT but can you see now their is a benefit being attached.  If you dont want to carry 2 MFT tables  instead you just have 1 MFT and one arm extension you can support material just as big.

JMB
 
James Metcalf said:
Thanks for taking time to do a great write up. Also good pictures. All first rate information.
Click to expand...

Sorry would of said Thank you sooner I must of scrolled past your post by accident. Also sorry its a bit messy Im not that good at reviews myself I just do pictures not really thinking to much about it then look at them and think I could use this picture and say something about it and stuff lol So sorry this topic is abit messy I did say it at the start though  [tongue]

Any way thanks.  [big grin]

Got some more pictures and videos just getting the time to do it.  [huh]

JMB

 
I agree that Festool missed the mark by not making these different pieces all work together like a "system."  Wasn't the reason for changing the MFT profiles (MFT-1080 to MFT/3) to make all these things compatible? 

One area of confusion for me here is that you show how the Arm doesn't attach with either the MFT/3 or the MFT/VL because the knob interferes with the lower portion of the profile -- yet, you do show the Arm attached to both in latter photos.  So, I take it that they do attach.  Did you replace the knob to make these work?

From your posts above, one would conclude that the Arm is really made to fit the CMS, yet the fence on the CMS-OF isn't compatible with the Arm.  On the other hand, the Arm is compatible with the fence for the OF module when installed into the MFT/VL, but the Arm doesn't attach (well) to the MFT/VL or MFT/3. 

Is that about right?  If so, one would have to wonder just what were they thinking???
 
lol yip you right I think lol

Yeah it does attach if you look at the pictures it just lips on enought doesnt it??!?  but its only just.  and you have to really tighten the knob tight to make sure it stayed and its then difficult to loosen the knob.  Unlike the Basic unit you can easily attach it and just a slight turn is enough.

JMB
 
I think a solution to the problem could be!  ( just quickly took the picture and video and have not even looked properly if it would work just a thought)

Using this (which is what comes with the MFS carriage)
 
Because it is spring loaded so you lift it up and turn it with out tightening or loosening so you can tighten so much and lift and turn to further tighten.
I am going to see if it works and then order some as spare parts and change my left and right UG arm extensions.

[attachimg=#]
 
When the VS600 first came out the knob on the right side was to large a diameter. The router base would hit it. Festool sent me a knob with same thread size and smaller diameter knob part. Looks like the ratchet or spring loaded knob might be a better fix.
 
Looking at your pump on talkfestool you have the same type of ratchet/spring loaded leaver but its larger that might work. The one I showed above is smaller I think and the thread is to small I think not checked yet but dont think it will replace the knob.

JMB
 
As to the fence for the CMS-OF being too long to fit the Arm onto the CMS and have the two line up correctly, I wonder if you could purchase the Table Widener for the Kapex  (or Crown Moulding Stop assembly - AB-KS 120) and mount it between the two.

CrownMouldingStopMiles.jpg


Could this part correct the issue with your CMS and the fence for the CMS-OF?  And, possibly even work to connect the Arm to the MFT/3 and MFT/VL?
 
Corwin said:
As to the fence for the CMS-OF being too long to fit the Arm onto the CMS and have the two line up correctly, I wonder if you could purchase the Table Widener for the Kapex  (or Crown Moulding Stop assembly - AB-KS 120) and mount it between the two.

CrownMouldingStopMiles.jpg


Could this part correct the issue with your CMS and the fence for the CMS-OF?  And, possibly even work to connect the Arm to the MFT/3 and MFT/VL?
Click to expand...

No sorry you cant wont work. 

If you was using the OLD kapex SET  then yes that would work but I dont know how it works with the height though  but the NEW UG-Kapex  left and right Arm extensions which are shown in the pictures will not work because they need the V groove as well to attach. 

JMB
 
They probably need to offer a new version of that extension table that would also incorporate the V-groove.  While you wouldn't necessarily need to add the extension table to the Kapex when using the UG arm(s), it could correct the issue you have with the CMS and CMS-OF.  In any event, it is certainly a shame that they did not plan for all these things to work together any better than they do...  

Had all these parts work in concert, I would have a good reason to upgrade my MFTs to the newer MFT/3s and get the UG arm(s) along with the CMS or VL when they become available here.  Without all this working together, I'll stay with my older MFTs and see no reason to get the CMS or VL...  Really wished it all worked as a "system."   [sad]
 
Advantage of the CMS Basic

Just showing you   you can leave your router attached saving a lot of time setting up and dismantling every time you go to a job

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

JMB
 
Why have I not seen one of these in the states?  I looked on the FestoolUSA site and don't see this anywhere, (I'm either blind or its not there - can someone send me a link) nor have I ever seen it in our local Festool seller's showroom in San Diego.  I have the MFT/3 table and was hoping that there was a tabletop with the built in router table that could be dropped in to that.  I also have the Festool 2200 router but it sure doesn't look like it could be retrofitted into an existing high end router table with the lift.  Right now I have an ancient Hitachi plunge router mounted to a router table plate that I made of aluminum but its a royal pain in the ass to use. Let me know.  Otherwise I will have to buy a 3.5 HP fixed base Porter Cable router that fits most of these precision router lifts. 
 
The CMS is not available at the current time in the US.  UL issues we are told.  There is a rumor out there that we may see the CMS as a router table sometime in the future.  I wouldn't bet on the modules that allow you to mount a TS-55 or a Carvex or Trion....  Just a router.

Peter
 
The CMS and associated parts are Not Available In North America, yet.  If you need a router table setup right away, look elsewhere.  The Festool routers are not easily adaptable to the router tables we in America are used to.  The biggest problem being height adjustment from above.  Supposedly the older discontinued OF 2000 was easy to table mount and adjust.
 
By good luck I was on a trip to Europe when Festool first revealed the CMS at a trade show. A few months later I had the chance to use a CMS with an OF2200 router belonging to a friend. During the May 2011 Door & Drawer class in Henderson, all of us had the chance to use 2 CMS, one with an OF1400 and one with an OF2200.

We were making cope and stick raised panel doors. These days this is a routine task typically performed on router tables, although not so many years ago shapers were used. Because time was short and the cutter set had 1/2" shanks we did not have time to try an OF1010 in the CMS. I take the word of Festool, Steve Bace and Brian Sedgeley that the OF1010 works well with a CMS.

My impression was that when the OF1400 was being used, changing bits was time consuming compared to the case with the OF2200.

Currently I own and use a Felder tilting arbor shaper with power feed, as well as two commercial router tables with raisers and PC 7518 motors. None of this equipment would be easy to move to sites. This is okay for me since my firm builds cabinets in our shop.

In Europe I have used the TS75 and the Carvex modules for the CMS. I found it frustrating to fit the TS saw into the module and after doing so no advantage over any decent portable contractor's table saw. On the other hand, since I am used to using my Trion and other jig saws below the work, I really liked using the Carvex in the CMS. Personally I think this is safe and logical, but I can see that UL might disagree.

Let us say that this is hardly the first time UL and I have disagreed about safety. Given the number of inferior router tables sold in the USA, I see no valid objection to the CMS router module. It is very safe.

As Shane says in the New Tools North America ETA, the CMS router module will not be sold in the USA very soon.
 
Here's where you can go to view all of the goodies not available to us:

Festool Germany  Make sure to select translate page in your browser so you can read it in English.

Festool UK  No need to translate this site obviously, unless you come across JMBspeak.
 
It took me about 15 minutes to install the TS 75 into the CMS-GE aluminium module. I am sure I could install in half that time, now that I know what I am doing. Reading the manual does not help at all, you are better off without it!
I leave the TS 75 in there permanently, but it is nice to know that when I need to do some heavy duty ripping with the guide rails, then all I have to do is take the TS 75 out of the module and start ripping.
I also have the Trion module and it works great.
The OF2000 module works great also, though mine does not get much use, so I am no expert with the details on its performance.

Justin.
 
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