miter saw choices

I am in the process of trying to decide what direction to go for a new SCMS.  Our local Woodcraft allowed us to borrow the Kapex for a day this week to evaluate it on the job.
First impression, that is one quiet saw that cuts like a dream.  Then I changed the miter angle, and was immediately let down.  Then I played with the bevel adjuster, and that is just plain sweet.  But then I changed the miter again.  BLECH!  Of course, the dust collection is amazing!  But, oh, that crappy, hard to adjust, piss poor excuse for having the Festool name, and, you have to be kidding me, NO DETENT OVERRIDE?!  I'm sorry, I love Festool, and most of the Kapex I love also, but that part is just ridiculous. 
Even more so after we got to try the Milwaukee today, and they seem to have the miter table adjustment thing figured out!  That saw, out of the box, was dead nuts at 90? and 45?.  And the digital readout and geared micro adjustment?!  Why in the world couldn't Festool have done that?!
Now, yes, it is one big ole beast of a saw.  But I already own a Bosch, and its a big ole beast as well. 
I must say, it is also VERY loud, and after using the Kapex, the vibration from the motor and the kick of the brake seem extremely pronounced to me.
The lack of a laser doesn't bother me, unless it could be a laser like the Kapex has, which is pretty much the first useful laser I have seen on a saw.
The lights are nice, and I can definitely see them being useful many times.

So, anyone know how to make a hybrid out of the two saws?!  :)
We are completely torn on which to get, but it will most likely be the Milwaukee purely for price and the brilliant miter adjustments.
As soon as Festool comes out with Kapex 2.0, I am pretty sure I will be right there though.
 
So far I'm very happy with my Kapex.  Also dead nuts accurate out of the box.  As for the miter mine is smooth and easy to set to the 1/4 degree.  It does have and overide for the detent...just works a little different then other saws and its easy to use.  I am also comfortable with the grip and trigger.  Bes tmiter saw I've ever used. 

At first I got the Kapex, in part, due to its small footprint and the location I was going to put it.  It would have been 16 inches from the back wall to the fence.  Since then I have changed where I'm setting up my chop station and it is 22 inches from the back wall to the fence.  I'm not sure if the milwauke would have fit but it sounds like a sweet saw as well.  Would ahve been nice to try one.

Over all the Kapex is excellent.  Smooth accurate cuts, quiet, dust free, nice lasers, a joy to use....
 
I have noticed after using the Milwaukee so much lately that then sound level seems better, maybe a break in period, still very loud though.

I guess the sound level does not matter to me much because everything else is so loud anyway. I have my hearing protection on 90% of the time listening to the TV or radio anyway.

I do not get any vibration, but I do have it screwed in place.
 
wnagle said:
So far I'm very happy with my Kapex.  Also dead nuts accurate out of the box.  As for the miter mine is smooth and easy to set to the 1/4 degree.  It does have and overide for the detent...just works a little different then other saws and its easy to use.  I am also comfortable with the grip and trigger.  Bes tmiter saw I've ever used. 

At first I got the Kapex, in part, due to its small footprint and the location I was going to put it.  It would have been 16 inches from the back wall to the fence.  Since then I have changed where I'm setting up my chop station and it is 22 inches from the back wall to the fence.  I'm not sure if the milwauke would have fit but it sounds like a sweet saw as well.  Would ahve been nice to try one.

Over all the Kapex is excellent.  Smooth accurate cuts, quiet, dust free, nice lasers, a joy to use....
Click to expand...

maybe I missed something, but where was the detent override?
 
nickao said:
I have noticed after using the Milwaukee so much lately that then sound level seems better, maybe a break in period, still very loud though.

I guess the sound level does not matter to me much because everything else is so loud anyway. I have my hearing protection on 90% of the time listening to the TV or radio anyway.

I do not get any vibration, but I do have it screwed in place.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i usually have hearing protection on as well.  Its still nice for the quiet on the jobsite.  But, really, our goal is to get busy enough in the shop that we don't have to be on the jobsite. . .

I wondered about how much of the noise was because of just being pulled out of the box.  It just had that "needs to break in" sound to it.
 
Brice shows the miter detent here I believe :

http://www.burrellcustomcarpentry.com/subpage76.html

If any of you that have the Kapex try the miter gauge on the Milwaukee you will wonder how Festool could have not put one on. I am not much for digital but for the miter saws it is the best ever. No more squinting and guessing if it is a 1/4 degree or 1/3 of a degree.  Actually I want one more decimal point!

 
nickao said:
Brice shows the miter detent here I believe :

http://www.burrellcustomcarpentry.com/subpage76.html

If any of you that have the Kapex try the miter gauge on the Milwaukee you will wonder how Festool could have not put one on.
Click to expand...

I guess I should clarify.  Yes, the Kapex does have the manual detent override.  What I meant, is a locking detent override so that you can adjust the saw easily that fraction of a degree off of, say, 45? with one hand while holding the work piece with the other.  If you have ever had to adjust your cut for a mitered corner of casing, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
 
nickao said:
Brice shows the miter detent here I believe :

http://www.burrellcustomcarpentry.com/subpage76.html

If any of you that have the Kapex try the miter gauge on the Milwaukee you will wonder how Festool could have not put one on. I am not much for digital but for the miter saws it is the best ever. No more squinting and guessing if it is a 1/4 degree or 1/3 of a degree.  Actually I want one more decimal point!
Click to expand...

Amen!  Sounds like you are as picky as me.  :)  Actually, I've seen your work, and I can tell, you have to be with your inlays.  You do a great job.  Honestly, I probably never would have even given the Milwaukee a look if it weren't for your endorsement of it here.
 
Sparky,

The detent overide is the same small spring loaded button you press down and hold while you adjust the table.  To work as an overide you keep it squeezed as you adjust, then without letting go, push your whole hand down on the larger locking paddle and then its locked between the detents.  Works a little different than most saw but its easy and effective once you know how it works.  The mistake some people make is after they set the angle, they let go of the small squeezed button on there thumb and then it can slip and loose your setting.  Once you try it you'll see it is easy and doesn't slip.
 
I aggree about the digital, I have digital on everything posible in my shop because my eyes aren't very good some days.  The kapex does have a large scale though and even I can see it without a strain.  I do have two articulating lights surrounding my saw that helps me see better though.  I'll tell you the best digital add on for me was on my table saw fence.  I can rezero for different blades or jigs and repeat cuts are so simple and precise.
 
nickao said:
If any of you that have the Kapex try the miter gauge on the Milwaukee you will wonder how Festool could have not put one on. I am not much for digital but for the miter saws it is the best ever. No more squinting and guessing if it is a 1/4 degree or 1/3 of a degree.  Actually I want one more decimal point!
Click to expand...

I think digital readouts are good idea, however, there is no way you can expect a miter saw to much more accurate than 1/4 degree. Blade flex alone can be as much as 1/4 degree, add this to the other inherit inaccuracies of a miter saw (and the users), you aren't going to need another decimal place.
 
There is not much blade  flex with my 6" stabilizer on that 12" blade, actually ZERO from what I can tell by eye. Try one you will never go back to not using one.

I mean I hear guys talking about .002 and things like that all the time.

I disagree on the 1/4 degree, you are not making a 16 or 32 sided object with that precision and expect the pieces to fit. At least .1 is much better and on this Milwaukee you can cut pieces all .1 apart and see the change in every piece, so the .1 works now with no changing of the saw. If they need to redesign to get another decimal point so be it. It is doable with all this tech for sure and we will see it. I mean this is the first .1 and it works, someone is going to best it for no other reason than to just do it. I do agree the wood movement is more than .01, but still making a new project at that precision certainly could not hurt and sounds good too!

And I could want it.

Thinking  about it 1/64 is .015625 and I think that is what we all go for realistically, so why not make the saw to that precision or at least round it to .01. I think it is that 3 rd decimal point that is not needed. There is room for improvement on these sliders and tightening up and reducing flex as you mentioned is one place to concentrate on. On many guys table saws they use the incra stuff as I do, maybe we need step up our expectations for a miter box to match the table saws precision.
 
I have an old GMC that I got for $100 about 5 years ago and it's about dead and now I'm ready for a new saw so I'm in the same boat as the original poster.  Price is a concern but its down the list so I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to drop the $1300 for a Kapex if that's what it takes.  My number one concern is to find a SCMS that can cross cut door and face frame parts.  Where you hold the cut up a bright light with a try square on it to see if any shines through.  Where there's virtually no tear out.  Is anyone doing that with thier SCMS?  I've been thinking that it would be great to be able to do that with the SCMS because it's always there, always set up, always plugged in.  But the cross cut sled is underneath something and the fence is in place on the table saw and the dado stack is loaded.  And I've been doing who knows what on the MFT so the fence and guide aren't set up.  You know the drill.  But the SCMS is always set up and ready for cross cutting.  Assuming I decide not to buy that new 8" jointer with the spiral head.
 
How are you getting the free shipping? Do you have a code, it keeps charging me 10.99. I only see free shipping for select Jet purchases.
 
Rutabagared said:
Steve-CO said:
Speaking of digital read outs, if anyone wants to add the Wixey digital readout to your TS Woodcraft has it on sale for $74, normally $150.

http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?ProductID=148085&FamilyID=20147
Click to expand...

Steve-CO,
Thanks for that link.  There's also free shipping.  That deal is just too good to pass up.

Joe
Click to expand...

Free Shipping?  Missed that, did you have a code.  You sure you're not referring to "same day shipping?"

Nick thanks for pointing out the free angle gauge, didn't even notice that.
 
What link are you using to enter the site?

That may be the difference becasue that is the exact deal that expired for me  on 12/31/2008.

Have you refresh your browser lately? Did you already purchase becasue I got this, with no email showing any refund for shipping, but I did get that deal worded exactly like that on an order in December:

Shopping Cart Summary     

Code   Qty   Description   Price
148085   1   Wixey Digital Fence Readout with FREE Digital Angle Gauge   $73.99

Item Total: $73.99
Shipping: $10.99
Order Total: $84.98

It has to be the way I am in the site becasue I found this, I may have to go to the site from the email link I gues I will try it again:

Free Ground Shipping for Preferred Email Customers

 To get this week's Free Ground Shipping* offer, you must have all other Woodcraft.com windows closed before clicking on any product link in the email to make a purchase.

*This offer is valid only on orders shipped to one of the contiguous 48 states. Excess weight shipping charges are excluded from this offer.

Offer valid through 2/23/2009

I think my problem is related to the bold sentence somehow but i have no product link for the Wixey in any emails, as of yet anyway.

 
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