Most aggressive Random Orbital Sander

[bobfog]

Just a heads up --- the Bosch and Makita only have a 1-year warranty, the Rotex has a 3-year warranty.

If the Bosch/Makita breaks once, during years 2 or 3, the Festool is cheaper.

This is interesting, in the UK/EU Bosch have a 3 year warranty, I wonder why they don't extend that to the USA...?

Though to say if they break only once, the Festool is cheaper, is a bit of a throwaway statement. If the Festool is $595 and the Bosch $295 a) you could buy a whole new unit and still be $5 up on the purchase cost, b) how do you know what the cost of repair to the Makita/Bosch would be, could be a $50 repair, a $150 repair, depends on what breaks, but unlikely to be 100% of the original purchase price (if it was see point a).

That's the sort of argument that makes sense if one tool is $300 and another $375, but at twice the price it becomes a bit tenuous.

 

[Shane Holland]

Bob, my statement was, to some extent, saying if the tool is more expensive to repair than replace. Sure, there are instances where this may not be the case. I think most people get what I was saying.  [wink]

But, something that a business owner would want to take into consideration is downtime, which is the same as money out of your pocket. Festool arguably has one of the fastest repair turnarounds of anyone in the industry. 98%+ of tools ship back out the day after they are received for repair.

Just food for thought and something I would personally consider when making a purchase.

 

[bobfog]

Bob, my statement was, to some extent, saying if the tool is more expensive to repair than replace. Sure, there are instances where this may not be the case. I think most people get what I was saying.  [wink]

But, something that a business owner would want to take into consideration is downtime, which is the same as money out of your pocket. Festool arguably has one of the fastest repair turnarounds of anyone in the industry. 98%+ of tools ship back out the day after they are received for repair.

Just food for thought and something I would personally consider when making a purchase.

But going back to my earlier point, at less than half the price, you could go and buy another one same day or shipped next day and still have that $5 in your back pocket and maybe sell the broken one as spares or repair on eBay; far less down time than even the quickest of repair turn arounds.

I'm not disputing the Festool warranty is a good thing and certainly a consideration when buying tools. I just think on this occasion you were clutching at straws using it to justify spending twice the money over the Bosch which is just as capable a machine that will perform the same tasks to the same standard.

 

[Shane Holland]

I just think on this occasion you were clutching at straws using it to justify spending twice the money over the Bosch which is just as capable a machine that will perform the same tasks to the same standard.

Bob, not at all, we sell Bosch and Makita. So, buy whatever. That said, I obviously believe strongly in what Festool represents as a brand.

Resell value is another consideration, assuming you think you may want to upgrade in the future. Festool wins there too.

 

[Holmz]

Hi folks..

Nope, I don't own the Bosch 1250..I own a CT midi and two finishing sanders from Festool (the iron shaped detail sander and 125 random orbital finish sander..very nice little machine.
...

I have no doubt that the machines these guys have been talking about (RAS, 1250, etc) are great for boat work.
However You have a deck, and it sounds like you are skirting around the edges?
What do you need? Yo probably have 60 feet of a 1 disk wide section to worry about...

Both your existing sanders sound like 200W finish sanders.???
(My 1/2-sheet is probably faster... It has twice the power.)

If you need FT, then ETS EC is just abut like a Mirka DEROS. And in random mode (not geared) is FT fastest random orbital sander.
They (Festool) do a /5-mm and a /3-mm.
A /5-mm is faster removal. There are other brands that have a /8-mm and maybe larger... (I doubt you need a /13 for a single deck, unless it is an ark deck.)

 

[Pete Street]

Hi folks..

Nope, I don't own the Bosch 1250..I own a CT midi and two finishing sanders from Festool (the iron shaped detail sander and 125 random orbital finish sander..very nice little machine.
...

I have no doubt that the machines these guys have been talking about (RAS, 1250, etc) are great for boat work.
However You have a deck, and it sounds like you are skirting around the edges?
What do you need? Yo probably have 60 feet of a 1 disk wide section to worry about...

Both your existing sanders sound like 200W finish sanders.???
(My 1/2-sheet is probably faster... It has twice the power.)

If you need FT, then ETS EC is just abut like a Mirka DEROS. And in random mode (not geared) is FT fastest random orbital sander.
They (Festool) do a /5-mm and a /3-mm.
A /5-mm is faster removal. There are other brands that have a /8-mm and maybe larger... (I doubt you need a /13 for a single deck, unless it is an ark deck.)

Holmz..read about the Pergola...Very large, many elements to it and covered in opaque stain that was applied heavy handed. The deck is not the issue in any way, you're correct. I could do the edges with any old ROS..no biggy. For the pergola I need to step it up.

 

[Mort]

So I've also been going back and forth on these two. On the one hand, I'm so impressed with my RO90 that I would tend to lead toward the RO150.

But the Bosch is a lot less expensive and I can get paper locally (nearest Festool dealer is 100 miles away). With something like the RO90 where there is no equivalent I'm willing to deal with that.

So you guys that have run both say they're about the same as far as aggressive stock removal, but how is the NVH? I know they're both probably a workout but is the Festool any easier to handle?

The plug-it and front handle aren't worth $300 to me, but if the Bosch vibrates the fillings out of my teeth I'll pay up.

 

[Pete Street]

So I've also been going back and forth on these two. On the one hand, I'm so impressed with my RO90 that I would tend to lead toward the RO150.

But the Bosch is a lot less expensive and I can get paper locally (nearest Festool dealer is 100 miles away). With something like the RO90 where there is no equivalent I'm willing to deal with that.

So you guys that have run both say they're about the same as far as aggressive stock removal, but how is the NVH? I know they're both probably a workout but is the Festool any easier to handle?

The plug-it and front handle aren't worth $300 to me, but if the Bosch vibrates the fillings out of my teeth I'll pay up.

From what I gather, the Bosch is easier to handle..I've read this on other sites as well.

My experience with Bosch sanders has been good over the years..I have a very early Bosch random orb ..it's got to be well over ten years old and it is still smooth as silk. Hopefully this will carry over to the 1250

 

[Holmz]

...

Holmz..read about the Pergola...
...

OK I am back on board...
The ETS EC is so close to a DEROS it is scary.
From what I understand if you are not using the RO in geared mode (hence using it in random orbit) then the ETS EC is faster than the RO

The /5 is the one you want if it is Festool.
I have a Mirka in /5-mm, Rupes has a Scorpio (pneumatic) in /12-mm. There some others that have huge strokes /7.5 or /9 I think...

A /5 moves along like a rabbit in spring.

 

[Pete Street]

...

Holmz..read about the Pergola...
...

OK I am back on board...
The ETS EC is so close to a DEROS it is scary.
From what I understand if you are not using the RO in geared mode (hence using it in random orbit) then the ETS EC is faster than the RO

The /5 is the one you want if it is Festool.
I have a Mirka in /5-mm, Rupes has a Scorpio (pneumatic) in /12-mm. There some others that have huge strokes /7.5 or /9 I think...

A /5 moves along like a rabbit in spring.

Holmz,

I'm listening to you but your abbreviations have me completely confused.

Can you explain them? Forgive me, I'm a little slow.

 

[leakyroof]

...

Holmz..read about the Pergola...
...

OK I am back on board...
The ETS EC is so close to a DEROS it is scary.
From what I understand if you are not using the RO in geared mode (hence using it in random orbit) then the ETS EC is faster than the RO

The /5 is the one you want if it is Festool.
I have a Mirka in /5-mm, Rupes has a Scorpio (pneumatic) in /12-mm. There some others that have huge strokes /7.5 or /9 I think...

A /5 moves along like a rabbit in spring.

Holmz,

I'm listening to you but your abbreviations have me completely confused.

Can you explain them? Forgive me, I'm a little slow.

. He's referring to the mm of Orbit each sander has . 5mm is the larger , more aggressive orbit in Random Orbit of certain Festool Sanders, but there are other manufacturers with even larger orbits for a more aggressive material removal rate .
For faster material removal, I doubt you would want anything less than 5mm stroke/orbit for the job you've posted about.
In other words , not a 3mm finishing sander ... [wink]
In Rotex mode, the Rotex sander will get much more aggressive , but the finish pattern may not be to your liking without further sanding in Random Orbit mode.
However, there are people here on FOG who only sand in Rotex mode with their Rotexes and have shown a very good sanded finish with pictures.
They usually are using multiple grits though, and not just a single pass with 1 level of abrasive.

 

[Holmz]

[member=58732]Pete Street[/member]

A 230v sander is probably not what you want... but if you do, or have a transformer, then you have some great options.

The 12-mm orbit is a lot more than 3-mm or 5-mm, but the removal rate is not a linear relationship with stroke size. There are also 7.5 and 8 or 9 mm strokes in electric sanders.

Therefore one pneumatic option seems to be:http://www.buffdaddy.com/product/RH1

 

[Pete Street]

I found a source in town (Chicago) for the Bosch 1250devs yesterday and went and snagged one. I'll let you guys know how I feel about on Monday or so.

Always makes me realize how much I miss all the old school, privately owned, pro hardware/tool shops that used to exist this city.

..Had to drive WAY the heck out into the suburbs to get this. The big box stores and the internet have absolutely destroyed these businesses..I used to love going to these joints for 'hands on' shopping, jabbering with the people who worked at these places and ---- professional products in stock..Just not the same these days and it IS sort of sad and at times, maddening to try to get an ergonomic and feel for the quality of an item online and whatnot.

Festool has a dealer  here  (Wood World on Elston Ave.) with some of the basic line on display, which is nice..but I get frustrated looking at Festool stuff online..so much there that you'd like to get your hands on but cannot.

that said, glad these forums exist

I do appreciate all the help..

 

[Mort]

Always makes me realize how much I miss all the old school, privately owned, pro hardware/tool shops that used to exist this city.

I found a place like that in Seattle, right in the University District. Aisles are packed full up to the tall ceiling with new and used top quality tools and hardware. They don't have an intercom so you go up to the register and they yell at the top of their lungs "HELP UP FRONT!" They also happen to be a Festool dealer.

 

[leakyroof]

I found a source in town (Chicago) for the Bosch 1250devs yesterday and went and snagged one. I'll let you guys know how I feel about on Monday or so.

Always makes me realize how much I miss all the old school, privately owned, pro hardware/tool shops that used to exist this city.

..Had to drive WAY the heck out into the suburbs to get this. The big box stores and the internet have absolutely destroyed these businesses..I used to love going to these joints for 'hands on' shopping, jabbering with the people who worked at these places and ---- professional products in stock..Just not the same these days and it IS sort of sad and at times, maddening to try to get an ergonomic and feel for the quality of an item online and whatnot.

Festool has a dealer  here  (Wood World on Elston Ave.) with some of the basic line on display, which is nice..but I get frustrated looking at Festool stuff online..so much there that you'd like to get your hands on but cannot.

that said, glad these forums exist

I do appreciate all the help..

. Berlands House of Tools by chance?... [smile]
Wood World is actually fully stocked for Festool. It's rare that they don't stock something these days unless they've had a run on an item.
The Paint Division stores run a basic sander inventory along with the Vacs by design. I consider them more bare bones/basic for Festool.

 

[nickao]

Well I have to disagree, living in the sticks the internet saved me. The net didn't destroy anything, these local stores could of opened internet sites, the smart ones did.

The research  and the comparison shopping we can do on the internet stores is not only more convenient, but we could never learn about the tools like we can on the net by going to a store.  Now we know more than the salesmen and we know the best price. I can search 10 stores from home, that would take days by car. And even at Berlands the  employees know very little about the tools compared to most anyone that comes to this site. I got so tired to hearing misinformation and talking to guys that dont know what they are talking about I stopped buying at Berlands, Rockler, Wood World etc, years ago.

So go drive to a store, spend half a day and talk to people that know nothing about the tools if you want, Ill shop on the net.

 

[Pete Street]

I found a source in town (Chicago) for the Bosch 1250devs yesterday and went and snagged one. I'll let you guys know how I feel about on Monday or so.

Always makes me realize how much I miss all the old school, privately owned, pro hardware/tool shops that used to exist this city.

..Had to drive WAY the heck out into the suburbs to get this. The big box stores and the internet have absolutely destroyed these businesses..I used to love going to these joints for 'hands on' shopping, jabbering with the people who worked at these places and ---- professional products in stock..Just not the same these days and it IS sort of sad and at times, maddening to try to get an ergonomic and feel for the quality of an item online and whatnot.

Festool has a dealer  here  (Wood World on Elston Ave.) with some of the basic line on display, which is nice..but I get frustrated looking at Festool stuff online..so much there that you'd like to get your hands on but cannot.

that said, glad these forums exist

I do appreciate all the help..

. Berlands House of Tools by chance?... [smile]
Wood World is actually fully stocked for Festool. It's rare that they don't stock something these days unless they've had a run on an item.
The Paint Division stores run a basic sander inventory along with the Vacs by design. I consider them more bare bones/basic for Festool.

It was a Rockler store..mot locally owned but present. I've never been to Berland's.

I check stuff out at Wood World when I need to, haven't been in there in a while.

They used to have a fairly basic line of Festool./glad to hear they're trying to expand on that.

 

[bobfog]

I found a source in town (Chicago) for the Bosch 1250devs yesterday and went and snagged one. I'll let you guys know how I feel about on Monday or so.

Always makes me realize how much I miss all the old school, privately owned, pro hardware/tool shops that used to exist this city.

..Had to drive WAY the heck out into the suburbs to get this. The big box stores and the internet have absolutely destroyed these businesses..I used to love going to these joints for 'hands on' shopping, jabbering with the people who worked at these places and ---- professional products in stock..Just not the same these days and it IS sort of sad and at times, maddening to try to get an ergonomic and feel for the quality of an item online and whatnot.

Festool has a dealer  here  (Wood World on Elston Ave.) with some of the basic line on display, which is nice..but I get frustrated looking at Festool stuff online..so much there that you'd like to get your hands on but cannot.

that said, glad these forums exist

I do appreciate all the help..

. Berlands House of Tools by chance?... [smile]
Wood World is actually fully stocked for Festool. It's rare that they don't stock something these days unless they've had a run on an item.
The Paint Division stores run a basic sander inventory along with the Vacs by design. I consider them more bare bones/basic for Festool.

It was a Rockler store..mot locally owned but present. I've never been to Berland's.

I check stuff out at Wood World when I need to, haven't been in there in a while.

They used to have a fairly basic line of Festool./glad to hear they're trying to expand on that.

What are your early impressions of the sander?

 

[Pete Street]

Hey Bob,

Have not used it yet..rained here today..I promise to pass on some thoughts on it as soon as I get a day in with it.

But, ran into the problem of locating 6' 80 grit paper with standard holes here..even non-standard holes...hard to find!

Anyone have an online source for 6 inch paper..good quality in bulk packs??

With shipping overnite or 2 day?

Thanks

 

[bobfog]

Hey Bob,

Have not used it yet..rained here today..I promise to pass on some thoughts on it as soon as I get a day in with it.

But, ran into the problem of locating 6' 80 grit paper with standard holes here..even non-standard holes...hard to find!

Anyone have an online source for 6 inch paper..good quality in bulk packs??

With shipping overnite or 2 day?

Thanks

I used Mirka Abranet and Abranet HD Mesh, no need to worry about holes and better dust extraction.