HA! That Milwaukee is a beast. Someone in the 60s big pimpin with a tired arm. It's not so bad, I checked it. Looks like a comfortable form factor, just a normal sized battery that clips to the belt. But picture walking away forgetting it's clipped to you... it's going to be dropped a lot.Hmmm, a 40 V sander...I wonder if it is lighter than my 36 V Stihl lawn mower? But wait, it's also corded at the same time...so it has the mobility of a Milwaukee "battery powered" drill released circa 1960...ya I'll purchase a couple off those nifty Makita items...
My box store orbital died. I have old hands. May I pick your brains about Festool?
- Thread starter nockpoint
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smorgasbord
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Yeah, it's totally weird to think that such things have come full circle.Hmmm, a 40 V sander...I wonder if it is lighter than my 36 V Stihl lawn mower? But wait, it's also corded at the same time...so it has the mobility of a Milwaukee "battery powered" drill released circa 1960...ya I'll purchase a couple off those nifty Makita items...
But, removing the battery removes a heavy component, so the sander itself is much lighter and better balanced than any other battery powered sander. Whether it's lighter than a corded model could be looked up.
Since I'm a workshop woodworker and sanders create lots of dust, I'm tethered to a dust collection hose anyway, so there's no advantage to me, but for people on job sites or standing on ladders and such, there could be advantage. I know with my leaf blower, having to stop to swap batteries is a good thing so my hand/arm don't get too vibration-ny.
And yeah, I suspect lots of people will/have walked away from a put-down corded battery sander only to have the battery tether cord knock it off and onto a hard floor.
Cheese
Member
Here's the problem with purchasing a crappy 5" sander just to use up your 5" sanding discs...once you use the Festool sander, you'll never want to use your crappy 5" sander again so you'll still have that stack of sanding discs in the garage. Seriously, you'll find all sorts of reasons to never use that crappy sander again.
My suggestion, purchase the ETS EC 125 sander and also purchase a ETS EC 150 pad. That way you can use the newer 6" sandpaper along with using up your stash of 5" paper. I assume the 5" paper has pre-punched holes in it?
Forget using the Ridgid for sanding duties and instead use it to vacuum up water spills or pet mishaps. For major shop issues it's fine but for sanding chores just purchase a proper machine. If money is an issue, choose the CT 15...a great vacuum for the price.
luvmytoolz
Member
I'd take it one further and say that if the stack no matter how good a quality doesn't include mesh discs, once you try them you'll likely find you simply won't want to use the old media in favour of the newer mesh discs.
They're just an amazing improvement over older media and very cost effective.
Cheese
Member
You bring up a good point...the current mesh discs were developed and released for a reason. I'd venture that Festool, Mirka and 3M didn't spend millions of $$ in development costs to just release these new discs because they had nothing else to do and no other way to spend their money.
I've not used any of them a lot but they're on my radar.The mesh discs make that whole 8 hole vs 6 hole vs 5 hole thing a relic of the past.
luvmytoolz
Member
Wait till you do use them in earnest, I'd be amazed if you didn't end up absolutely loving them and forget all the other media!You bring up a good point...the current mesh discs were developed and released for a reason. I'd venture that Festool, Mirka and 3M didn't spend millions of $$ in development costs to just release these new discs because they had nothing else to do and no other way to spend their money.
The mesh discs make that whole 8 hole vs 6 hole vs 5 hole thing a relic of the past.
As I do a lot of resin sanding, this tends to wear out normal discs extremely fast, so I ended up trying the top 3 brands in all the grits, and I'm just blown away at how good they are, and how long they last.
And even when they're too worn for the sander, I still get months of use hand sanding edges and curves with them, and buffing finishes on with the higher grits.
To put it into perspective, using my flypress I punch out my own 35mm discs from Mirka Abranet Ace for my 32mm head mini sander, and a single disc will last for probably 3-4 of the boards pictured with especially aggressive sanding in the curves.
Conversely, the old 150mm media lasts pretty much one per board, so given I punch around 15 mini discs from a 150mm disc, the order of magnitude the mesh lasts is pretty astounding.
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Cheese
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I have some teak sanding that needs to be done, I'll try the net abrasives on that. 
3M is known for producing sandpaper sample packs and selling them at close to cost to get people hooked. Last year I ran across their Xtract sample packs and purchased a case of 5" and a case of 6" discs. They were basically free at 5¢ and 7¢ per sanding disc with free shipping. 
That board is pretty cool... ...are the pockets done with a router or a CNC?
3M is known for producing sandpaper sample packs and selling them at close to cost to get people hooked. Last year I ran across their Xtract sample packs and purchased a case of 5" and a case of 6" discs. They were basically free at 5¢ and 7¢ per sanding disc with free shipping. That board is pretty cool...
...are the pockets done with a router or a CNC?Attachments
luvmytoolz
Member
@Cheese That's a pretty sensational deal on the media, it's very considerably more expensive here in OZ, as with everything else I guess. The 3M Cubitron is really good media, but I find it does tend to tear up on edges a bit easier than Abranet or Granat mesh. The Cubitron probably has the best cut coming out of the gate, but I'd recommend also trying some Mirka Abranet Ace as a comparison, it's probably a slightly better "general" purpose media I've found.
For the charcuterie boards I was doing the pockets with a template and router at first, but found clamping them securely was a bit of a pain so I now do them with my CNC, much easier.
For the charcuterie boards I was doing the pockets with a template and router at first, but found clamping them securely was a bit of a pain so I now do them with my CNC, much easier.
Update - swung by Woodcraft yesterday. The Festool guy essentially acted like I was full of crap when I said ETS EC 125 with an additional 6" pad. Usually the Woodcraft guys are fairly knowledgeable, but this and a few other things he said made me question if I speaking to a salesman and not a woodworker. I ended up getting the ETS EC 150/5, not because of anything he said. I've got more than one router just because I don't fancy removing the one on my router table to use by hand. I'll get some box store item to use up the paper. It's good paper and that makes a big difference. Festool guy also tried to sell me the CT 15 (it's so tiny!), but I'll be going with the Hercules dust extractor. The hose does fit, if it annoys me I'll upgrade to the Festool hose. Sadly they didn't have the EC 150 in stock so I have to wait 2 weeks for my sander to arrive.
@luvmytoolz @Cheese I've got a mixture of Cubitron and Duragold. The Duragold is in a variety of grits, but mostly in the upper end automotive 1000s and no hole stick on paper for the blocks. The Cubitron is not the extract paper, it's got a weird water sprinkler pattern. tiny holes. I swear I'll use it up, hahaha! I haven't bought 6" any paper yet for the EC 150. Is there any Mirka or 3M paper you'd recommend? 3M seems fairly straightforward (and I'm already in love with it). Mirka has so many options named after locations in fantasy novels, I have no idea what the names mean.
@luvmytoolz @Cheese I've got a mixture of Cubitron and Duragold. The Duragold is in a variety of grits, but mostly in the upper end automotive 1000s and no hole stick on paper for the blocks. The Cubitron is not the extract paper, it's got a weird water sprinkler pattern. tiny holes. I swear I'll use it up, hahaha! I haven't bought 6" any paper yet for the EC 150. Is there any Mirka or 3M paper you'd recommend? 3M seems fairly straightforward (and I'm already in love with it). Mirka has so many options named after locations in fantasy novels, I have no idea what the names mean.
luvmytoolz
Member
@nockpoint Congrats on the 150/5, you'll love it. So far as media, if it's mainly wood the Mirka Abranet Ace would be my first choice, then Granat Net and then Cubitron 2, not that any are more inferior, just slightly different results depending on usage I've found. If you're doing a lot of polishing the Mirka Abralon up to 4000 grit is superb and cuts really well, it's also fantastic for buffing/rubbing in oil and wax finishes.
If doing grunt rough sanding work, the Mirka Abranet Ace HD cannot be beat, it is astoundingly aggressive and long lasting, but highest grit I think is 120.
This link describes the Mirka abrasives well, there is a new one touted to be one of the best yet by Mirka, "Ligno", but I haven't tried that one yet, but will soon:
bestabrasives.com.au
If doing grunt rough sanding work, the Mirka Abranet Ace HD cannot be beat, it is astoundingly aggressive and long lasting, but highest grit I think is 120.
This link describes the Mirka abrasives well, there is a new one touted to be one of the best yet by Mirka, "Ligno", but I haven't tried that one yet, but will soon:
Understanding the Difference: Abranet, Abranet Ace, and Abranet Ace HD
When it comes to abrasives, choosing the right one for your specific needs can significantly impact the quality and efficiency of your work. In this blog, we'll delve into the distinctions between three popular abrasives from the Mirka Abranet family: Abranet, Abranet Ace, and Abranet Ace HD...
bestabrasives.com.au
smorgasbord
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We should start a thread for sales on such things so other FOGgers can benefit. I posted about a Festool Jig Saw Blade set a couple weeks ago that for some reason was $45 instead of the list $60, on Amazon.
onocoffee
Member
The only issue with the ETS EC 125 is that it only comes in 3mm orbit (I REALLY wish it came in 5), so going with the ETS EC 150/5 was really the best route.
While I understand the reasons to go with the Hercules, there's a couple reasons to reconsider. The Hercules came out the weekend that I was going to buy my CT MIDI I (the glorified CT 15), so I was incredibly tempted to save some cash and get the Hercules (especially then because it was $249). But I had already been planning to get the MIDI and decided to stick with it. I have not regretted that decision.
The Hercules offers a lot of important features: onboard tool power, auto tool on, timed shutoff, variable suction, and HEPA filtration being some of the most important. It also is basically a shop vac with shop vac level suction power - this is a plus as far as shop vac-ing around your shop and when connecting to tools that need alot of suction, like a table saw, but may be too brute a force for sanding when you want to lower the suction to the lowest levels. The 6.5hp motor also draws more power - which means that the onboard power supply is more limited (the motor takes up 11.5 amps leaving 3.5 amps for the tool). Depending on what you want to connect, this could limit your options.
For example, I was finishing up a bandsaw restoration today and the MIDI was next to me, so rather than get up and plug the bandsaw into an outlet, I just plugged it into the MIDI and turned it on. Since I'm using the onboard power, the vac starts up along with the 7.8ampl 1/2hp bandsaw motor with no issues. I don't think the Hercules can do that.
I do like the 12ga capacity vs the 4ga of the CT15 but it also makes it larger and more unwieldy to maneuver and park around the shop, and I've found the stackability of the hose garage to stack systainers, TopRock and a CT-VA-20 to be very useful. Then there's the bluetooth - I thought it would be dumb when my guy at Woodcraft was trying to convince me on the wisdom of the MIDI over the 15, but now shoplife would be joyless without it. Then there's the D27 hose. Aside from the woven exterior and antistatic, the Festool connector just makes it easy. When I started with Festool, my friend had the ETS EC 150/5 and we connected it to a Ridgid shop vac and that 2.5" hose with adapter kept popping off - infuriating. So much better when everything works without fuss. You can get the 5m D27 hose for $189 which puts you right around $550 with the Hercules. For that kind of money, you can easily have the CT15 or CT25, and then for about $130 more you'd have the CT MIDI I.
Just some thoughts to consider from someone who almost bought the Hercules over the MIDI.
luvmytoolz
Member
@onocoffee Unless I'm mistaken the Midi on full suction is still quieter than the Hercules, and on lower suction is dramatically less noisy.
Noise levels have long been a critical factor for me, makes for a far more comfortable work environment and happier neighbours if the machines don't sound like a screaming banshee.
Noise levels have long been a critical factor for me, makes for a far more comfortable work environment and happier neighbours if the machines don't sound like a screaming banshee.
mino
Member
The ETSC 125 shows up to disagree emphatically.
Agreed on all, though one thing mentioned too little in this thread are the Festool SelfClean bags. These are the #1 reason to buy Festool vacs which oh so many folks here take for granted.
Those "expensive" bags are NOT expensive in context and are actually the core value the Festool Cleantec vacs bring to the table. This comes to the fore even more so when combined with a cyclone, be it the CT-VA, Oneida, or whatever custom stuff. All the other "good features" are just the cherries on the SeflClean cake.
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mino
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smorgasbord
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Are you sure the piece of the Makita in your hand is heavier than the ETSC 125 with battery - since that's the in-use weight comparison?
At any rate, the ETSC is taller and I don't believe it's brushless, which the Makita is. And run times are different, too.
No Extractor has been purchased yet so... what's a selfClean bag? I thought it had self clean filters but didn't hear anything about the bag.
leakyroof
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I use my ETS EC sanders for both wood working, drywall plaster work, and autobody work. Since they are shaped and sized like pneumatic Random Orbit sanders, and are paired to one of two Festool Vacs that I also own, I have good control over dust collection, surface finish control and choice of Abrasive. Generally Granat for any autobody work. I DO have some other abrasives for autobody work, generally 3M, but are also sized for other powered sanders like a really small DA [ Grex 3" ] and a long board. I have some left over Festool Abrasive for the Long Board as well, back when Festool was offering it.
Not familiar with the Hercules Vac, I'll have to look into that one.
Your hands should love the new Sander you bought, and if you really need a finer finish with a small orbit, then the ETS 125 is a nice sander.
As an aside, my ETS EC 125 can strip finishes surprisingly well with the right abrasive even though it's a smaller orbit of 3mm compared to the 150/5.
Sometimes you just need a smaller disc to get into tight areas, which is why I still have that Pneumatic tiny DA for just such tight spots, even though it's not hooked to any Dust Collection since it was never designed with it in mind.
Not familiar with the Hercules Vac, I'll have to look into that one.
Your hands should love the new Sander you bought, and if you really need a finer finish with a small orbit, then the ETS 125 is a nice sander.
As an aside, my ETS EC 125 can strip finishes surprisingly well with the right abrasive even though it's a smaller orbit of 3mm compared to the 150/5.
Sometimes you just need a smaller disc to get into tight areas, which is why I still have that Pneumatic tiny DA for just such tight spots, even though it's not hooked to any Dust Collection since it was never designed with it in mind.
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onocoffee
Member
I think he mans the reusable Longlife Filter Bags. The ones for the CT MIDI I cost $139. You fill them up, empty into the trash and reuse. Over and over again. But, is it really necessary and worth it? Maybe.
After first getting my MIDI I monitored my use and it took two months at my pace of working (hobby) to fill the bag. The regular bags cost $28 for five ($5.60/ea). It would take 25 bags before I would break even on the cost of the Longlife. If it still took two months to fill each bag, it would take me four years to break even on the cost.
Of course, that calculus changes if you are consuming bags at a higher rater. It's just something to consider but if you like the idea of never buying disposable bags, get the Longlife bag and don't bother with the calculus.
luvmytoolz
Member
@onocoffee I can't speak for other countries but here in OZ a pack of 5 Midi bags is $83, so the $250 for the longlife bag is absolutely worth it for me. Even the CT36 that rarely gets emptied, also has a long life bag, just because. ;-)
The only extractor I have that uses original bags is my Festo SR5E, but only cause I bought a box of 5 bags when I got it 45 years ago and I slitted the end to fit a clamp on it to turn it into a long life bag. I'm on my 3rd bag now!
Long live the long life bags!
The only extractor I have that uses original bags is my Festo SR5E, but only cause I bought a box of 5 bags when I got it 45 years ago and I slitted the end to fit a clamp on it to turn it into a long life bag. I'm on my 3rd bag now!
Long live the long life bags!
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