My CT36 does NOT filter all the dust !!!

Alex said:
Cableaddict said:
I am just stunned by this.  No offense, but so much for Festool's reputation.  Even if the new filter design solves this problem (and that remains to be seen) the fact is that Festool has been selling a product for years that was supposed to be "HEPA" and it really wasn't.  Amazing.
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That is not the fact. The CT 36 is only 1 year out now ( I think even shorter in the USA) , and as Ken already mentioned, the filter material was HEPA certified, not the entire vac. Festool only very recently got the full HEPA certification for the entire vac, as was announced on this site and other Festool websites.

When you try to bash someone's reputation, do it on the real facts, not the ones you make up. Yes, the filter was redesigned to meet full HEPA certification demands, but does that mean the old filter they gave you suddenly has holes the size of New Mexico in it? I think not. The specifications for these filters are about such minute particles that no normal man can tell the difference, only specialised measuring equipment can. There are many people here on this site that have the CT26/36 for a year now and your problem has never been reported here by any of them. But you have one for 30 days and now you're generalising your problem to all these vacs/filters and Festool, while nobody else did. So is it not more plausible that you got a faulty vac/filter instead of the idea that all of those Festool made are faulty?

Looks to me that as soon as you made Festool aware of your problem they're working vigorously with you to resolve it. Yes, sometimes individual tools can have their faults because nobody is 100% of the time perfect, not even Festool's production lines. What really counts in my book, when talking about reputations, is how they try to resolve any of their mistakes.

     
Click to expand...

I took a few minutes to read all the posts of cableaddict to try and better understand the problem, and found them illuminating.
 
Something is not right.  Send the unit back.  You are convinced that it is a faulty design and nothing is going to change your mind.  

But, I am kinda surprised that no one asked in what application you were using this, or is it possible that the airborne dust was being caused by an application that did not lend itself to absolute dust collection - in other words that the dust was never making it to the dust collector.

Peter
 
I've been really happy with my CT26. The only thing that ever seems to escape is sometimes a faint odor of the wood I may be cutting or sanding. Ie: I finished a cedar project not long ago. After running the vac, I can get a faint smell of the cedar. It's quite possible that the particle size of the wood oils being warmed up could be smaller than the filter of the CT can capture? When I did some reading, I found that most HEPA air purifiers that advertise odor elimination also use a carbon filter or other additional odor/vapor filter. This convinced me that an odor alone was not any sign that the CT was not filtering effectively.
 
CT22 gets used for wood and drywall - no problems
CT36 gets used exclusively for laminate wood floor cutting - no such problems
Laminate floor dust is pretty rough and our 36 has no issues with it. No leaking, no dust flying around etc. I would also be pretty PO'ed if I spent that money and had your issue. I'm thinking there's an issue with your Vac specifically, not the 36 in general. Send it back and see what happens. The dust flying around from the exhaust port is another option as has been mentioned.
 
There is no design issue with our dust extractors. I think the comments by other members are good evidence of that. I would agree with others and hypothesize that you have a defective unit. I will be contacting you by email. I'd like to ship you a brand new replacement unit and issue a call tag for the existing unit so that we can get it back here and have a look at it to determine the cause of the issues you're experiencing. Again, sorry for the ongoing trouble. I was waiting for you to test the CT in an isolated environment and get the results before moving forward with additional troubleshooting. I never saw you post those results.

Shane
 
Odor is tricky substance. I can smell rotten eggs or skunk well even I know that there are NO any particles. Most likely unit was damaged during shipping. Another option is that there is some crack inside cast. Or there is hole in the hose.  I had smelly CT-Mini, but fine wood dust was OUTSIDE unit.

I hope your new unit won't have this problem anymore.
Cheers,
VictorL
 
Since Festool is sending you a new vac I'd assume it will be a unit with the new and improved HEPA filter.  If that's the case you'll be getting the best possible filtration for portable vacs.  That should satisfy anyone.  Please report back how the new vac works out for you. 
 
Brice,

What happened to you testing out that CT 26F, the model with the automatic Febreeze dispenser?
 
Interesting problem but I don't think a HEPA filter stops odors.  When I sand bondo you can smell it in the discharge air and you can smell it the next day or so when you run the vac.  Upon close inspection of the surfaces behind the filter, I can find no dust whatsoever.
 
Laminator said:
Interesting problem but I don't think a HEPA filter stops odors.  When I sand bondo you can smell it in the discharge air and you can smell it the next day or so when you run the vac.  Upon close inspection of the surfaces behind the filter, I can find no dust whatsoever.
Click to expand...

I have avoided even bringing it up partially because I don't have a comfortable level of expertise, but since you mention it. I think you're right.

As I understand it, "odor particles" are measured in nanometers, which are significantly smaller than microns. HEPA filters are not designed to capture odors. Activated charcoal is used for capturing odors.

Hopefully, he's more concerned about the capture of the dust than the odor. I still highly recommend a respirator, which protects against airborne particles that are floating around. That's the best option since he's working with a toxic material. Dust extractors aren't designed or intended to be used for whole room HEPA filtration of ambient air. They are intended to capture dust from the tool. Even with that, you're not going to capture 100% of the dust from the tool especially depending on factors like technique, whether there's a texture to the surface, sanding on a corner or edge, etc.

Odor alone should not be cause for alarm that dust isn't being properly filtered. I was actually hoping to hear results of testing the unit in isolation to make sure the odor wasn't just some inert smell from the dust extractor itself. I hope to hear back from him about exchanging the unit so we can get this resolved and check out the CT to see what's going on. At this point, I don't think speculation by me or anyone else is going to help the matter.

Shane
 
I'll just add that that's correct about HEPA filters not being able to filter odors.  That is the job of activated charcoal filters.  3M makes dust masks with the activated charcoal filter so it does double duty.

I've also experienced (on a non-Festool vacuum) the smell of body filler from sanding it into the vacuum and the odor being expelled directly out the motor exhaust.  That unit had a HEPA filter on it.
 
In defense of cablead, comparing Bondo and concrete aren't quite the same.

Bondo uses epoxies (in actuality I think polyesters but same holds true) and this has volatile organic compounds.  These are probably what you smell and these would not be filtered by a particulate filter, ie a dust vac.

Concrete doesn't have VOC's and so anything you can smell from concrete should be dust and not something volatile and gaseous.  Therefore, a dust vac should not smell of concrete.  But to tell the truth, I don't recall concrete sacks having much of an odor even when pouring fenceposts and other very dusty operations.
 
I wasn't trying to compare, just stating something.  If I had connected the vacuum hose to the inside of my boots, the HEPA filter still wouldn't have helped.  [big grin]

For what it's worth, most of the dust you see when dealing with bags of cement is lime.
 
Here's what I was referring to.  I always keep one on hand because you never know where you'll be working or who you'll be working with.  [blink]

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

 
Axe body spray? Old spice? Or maybe just good old cherry or other hardwood smells so if you have an MDF project you can momentarily close your eyes and pretend its maple.
 
The original poster posted that he has a medical condition that causes him to be very concerned about exposure to dust.  Festool has offered assistance in trying to better the situation and find out what is going on with that individual dust extractor.  Members here have posted about smells versus dust and filterable versus non-filterable.

I have always found this to be a very caring community, let's not continue on with the smell comments, even if they are meant to lighten the mood, because it is easy to get the wrong impression if reading them.

Thanks guys.

Peter
 
Great point - Best wishes to the OP. I do hope you take Shane up on his offer to exchange units. In my experience Festool will always stand behind their products. They're not happy if you are not happy.
 
Thanks, Shane,  and everyone else who has responded to this very important issue.  This is a great forum.

I am swamped with work today  (self employed) and so much get back to this on Sunday / Monday.

I understand how this MIGHT be more "odor" than dust, (I had a good talk with Bob Marino yesterday - indeed a great guy to deal with)  but due to my already sever lung problems, I'm afraid to test this theory.  What I CAN say is that the last time I inhaled just a little bit of WHATEVER the CT36 is outputting, I almost immediately went into a coughing fit that lasted all night.  (I couldn't even talk the next day.)  So it's PROBABLY dust.  Also, (hate to bring it up, but- ) There was none of this when I used the Bosch AirSweep, and I was sucking up a LOT more dust at that time.

I think the best idea is to wait until I have the new filter & try the vac again. That may solve the problem, which would be wonderful.  If still no good, then move on to some kind of "plan B."

Shane, I'll definitely call you on Monday.  THANKS.
 
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