My paint has ACNE. Help please.

[peter halle]

I am such a novice at spraying that I tend to not pay close attention to these threads.  But a member here read something that I wrote in a thread about my experiences / difficulties with Advance and sent me a PM.  In part here is what he wrote:

"It appears from reading the data sheet from BM that to spray it you need an airless sprayer.  I have a four stage HLVP unit and it is way too thick to spray.  The viscosity cup that came with my sprayer should empty in about 35 seconds to spray a latex, but this takes well over 3 minutes to empty.  And they don't recommend thinning."

Just some info for you.

Peter

 

[JCLP]

I am such a novice at spraying that I tend to not pay close attention to these threads.  But a member here read something that I wrote in a thread about my experiences / difficulties with Advance and sent me a PM.  In part here is what he wrote:

"It appears from reading the data sheet from BM that to spray it you need an airless sprayer.  I have a four stage HLVP unit and it is way too thick to spray.  The viscosity cup that came with my sprayer should empty in about 35 seconds to spray a latex, but this takes well over 3 minutes to empty.  And they don't recommend thinning."

Just some info for you.

Peter

Hi Peter. Thanks for the info. I have alked to other people who have been successfulspraying Advance with the Earlex5500 and I have tried very hard to duplicate their setup. As for viscosity, I talked to BM and they set I can dilute up to 10% with water without affecting the chemical reaction of the paint. When I do dilute 10%, the viscosity drops down to 80 in a ford cup #4. As the machine is rated at a viscosity of 160, it should work. I have been communication with Sam from Earlex US and he is as puzzled as I am.
JC

 

[Shane Holland]

Possibly a defect Earlex unit?  [huh]

 

[peter halle]

Hey, every time I walk into BM and talk paint they try to sell me Advance.  I instantly have a physical reaction and start frothing at the mouth and start twitching and have an urge to run full speed into the stacked paint displays just so that I can see mayhem.

A quick exit or a visit to the restroom to splash cold water on my face has worked so far to stop my reaction but I fear that one day I will fail and shall be seen running from the store with a roller in my hand screaming "Advance!  Advance!" and then looking off to my left and seeing a crowd of grocery shoppers forming up with their shopping carts and moving forward as one to defeat some unknown foe.

Peter

 

[JCLP]

Possibly a defect Earlex unit?  [huh]

Shane. They gave me a new turbine unit, gun, air cap, washers etc. to replace what I had bought in December.

 

[Jozsef Kozma]

Is it the paint ?
Is it the painter?
Is it the equipment ?
Bottom line to us was 30 hours extra labor $140 extra material
to get the satisfactory finish

The painters have 55 years experience between them

Good luck

 

[JCLP]

Is it the paint ?
Is it the painter?
Is it the equipment ?
Bottom line to us was 30 hours extra labor $140 extra material
to get the satisfactory finish

The painters have 55 years experience between them

Good luck

All good questions. I think the paint will work as I have about 6 panels that have turned out great. Is it the painter? Could be. I did find however that Advance wants to be put on thick. The bleeder gun will dry the paint to fast if it is too thin. Also, other people have sprayed as close as 4" with a 2mil needle and a bit of splatter. Will try after supper. Off to my other job, photography hockey players.
Cheers.

 

[tjbnwi]

Advance is a very slow curing paint. You may think it's dry, but it's not. Recoat should be no sooner than 16  hours (according to the TDS), I prefer 24. It is 30 days for it to coalesce. Your paint is micro foaming. You are trapping air between the layers, the bubbles occur as the air "pops" out. Here is a paper on the issue;
http://www.tego.de/sites/dc/Downloa...tion-of-micro-foam-in-waterborne-coatings.pdf

I have seen one finish flawed by a bad turbine.

It can be sprayed HVLP, I do it with my Fuji. This is a project by Ed Michnick. All of the casework was sprayed by me (some in the shop, most on site once assembled) with Advanced Navajo White (no thinner, straight out go the cans).
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=WVlHQ3NKZ21PclpFQUVySGw5clpaZU5fV0l0MGF3

Try windshield washer fluid as your thinner. If that does not work, try General Finish Enduro Extender.

Wait longer between coats.

You're applying the paint to thick, the paint should not be applied thicker than 3.6 wet mills (0.0036") according to the TDS. If you don't have a wet mill gauge get one. The other day I decided to check myself for film consistency, target was 4 wet mills. Checked 6 panels in 6 places, 4 mills at each check point. It had been about a year since I checked myself.

Link to TDS is in this document;
http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/...ducts/advance-waterborne-interior-alkyd-paint

Tom

 

[JCLP]

Advance is a very slow curing paint. You may think it's dry, but it's not. Recoat should be no sooner than 16  hours (according to the TDS), I prefer 24. It is 30 days for it to coalesce. Your paint is micro foaming. You are trapping air between the layers, the bubbles occur as the air "pops" out. Here is a paper on the issue;
http://www.tego.de/sites/dc/Downloa...tion-of-micro-foam-in-waterborne-coatings.pdf

I have seen one finish flawed by a bad turbine.

It can be sprayed HVLP, I do it with my Fuji. This is a project by Ed Michnick. All of the casework was sprayed by me (some in the shop, most on site once assembled) with Advanced Navajo White (no thinner, straight out go the cans).
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=WVlHQ3NKZ21PclpFQUVySGw5clpaZU5fV0l0MGF3

Try windshield washer fluid as your thinner. If that does not work, try General Finish Enduro Extender.

Wait longer between coats.

You're applying the paint to thick, the paint should not be applied thicker than 3.6 wet mills (0.0036") according to the TDS. If you don't have a wet mill gauge get one. The other day I decided to check myself for film consistency, target was 4 wet mills. Checked 6 panels in 6 places, 4 mills at each check point. It had been about a year since I checked myself.

Link to TDS is in this document;
http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/...ducts/advance-waterborne-interior-alkyd-paint

Tom

Hi Tom,

Thank you very much for the info and the links. I believe you are correct on the problem. Typically I have been waiting 12 hours before sanding and applying another coat. I will wait a minimum of 24 hours before I rty another coat. I will try windshield washer fluid but will the blue affect the colour?

 

[Shane Holland]

To share my experiences with thinning... I have used room temp water and also Floetrol.

 

[JCLP]

To share my experiences with thinning... I have used room temp water and also Floetrol.

Thanks Shane. I was told by BM water only and no floetrol. Now Tom mentioned on his post to use windsheild washer fluid. Would that not turn the paint blue?

 

[tjbnwi]

It will not turn the paint blue. At 10% not much dye in the mix.

Tom

 

[junk731]

Still trying to figure out why your using paint that's designed to be applied by brush or roller and not a good sprayable product from one of the many suppliers in our region. The product your using is a pain in the ass from page one with well known issues, keep life easy and use good products. Any good commercial paint supplier can tint to whatever you need.

John

 

[tiralie]

Any good commercial paint supplier can tint to whatever you need.

John

Found an SW location where he can get some Kem Aqua + so I think he will be ok in the future. It might actually work in that 5500.
Tim

 

[tiralie]

You're applying the paint to thick, the paint should not be applied thicker than 3.6 wet mills (0.0036") according to the TDS. If you don't have a wet mill gauge get one. The other day I decided to check myself for film consistency, target was 4 wet mills.

I agree with Tom and others who have noted that the application is too thick. The saving grace I guess is the paint is designed to level out.
I am just amazed that you can actually spray that stuff (BM Advance) even thinned 10% with what is effectively a 2 stage machine (Earlex 5500) putting out only 2.2psi. That is what I call persistence.

I don't believe the Earlex 5500 generates enough pressure at the gun to atomize BM Advance to get the proper (mil) thickness.

Try windshield washer fluid as your thinner. If that does not work, try General Finish Enduro Extender.

Or use just plain methyl hydrate (the main ingredient) in windshield washer. Essentially just watered down alcohol. The advantage of methyl hydrate over plain water is it flashes off (evaporates) faster than water and hopefully avoids runs and drips.

Your paint is micro foaming. You are trapping air between the layers, the bubbles occur as the air "pops" out. Here is a paper on the issue;

Thanks Tom, interesting paper and diagnosis of the problem.

Tim

 

[tjbnwi]

[member=7816]Tim Raleigh[/member],

I prefer WW fluid due to the water being purified. I can buy WW fluid cheaper than I can buy deionized/purified water and a gallon of MH.

Tom

 

[Shane Holland]

Interesting about the windshield washer fluid. Makes sense with the alcohol content. May have to give it a try. Thanks for the tip.

Shane

 

[tiralie]

[member=7816]Tim Raleigh[/member],
I prefer WW fluid due to the water being purified. I can buy WW fluid cheaper than I can buy de-ionized/purified water and a gallon of MH.

Ya, it's pathetic really. A gallon/4 liters of MH is more than a gallon/4 liters of WW.
Tim

 

[junk731]

Unfortunately methyl hydrate is one of the worst alcohols you should mix with paint. Extremely toxic. Most paint thinners are a mix of an alcohol and glycol which is what windshield washer typically is, main concern would be the effect the soap would have with the paint makeup.

John

 

[tiralie]

Sorry but I should have been more explicit, I don't and wouldn't use methyl hydrate or windshield washer in any of my paint. I don't thin the paint I spray.

John:
The the label on the container of windshield washer I have here says methyl hydrate is the chief ingredient. Probably some differences in WW regionally and nationally internationally based on availability of raw materials.
Tim